All this talk about hiring Martz?
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Martz has done nothing but upgrade every offense he has had his hands on. People like to say that he gets fired everyehere he goes, but like thor said, those were usually desperate HCs that probably didn't like the fact that their OC was twice as intelligent as them. As I recall, Kitna threw for like 4000 yds with Martz as his OC. JOHN FUCKING KITNA. Yes, they still lost a bunch of games, but it wasn't due to shitty offense. Pretty sure he got Sean Hill playing some good football as well. Seriously, this is fun and everything, but we all know it would never happen. I would be in favor of him returning in some capacity though, if at all possible. Sadly, it isn't.
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LesBaker
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iced said:
Those two things are not the same thing at all.
The reasons Bradford couldn't run Martz' O are plenty.
First we don't even know how good he is at reading defenses and that's a big part of why he struggled in McDaniels O he wasn't making the right line calls plus in college he only "read" half the field per play from a report I read.
Then there is his accuracy.....it would be a real problem in that type of precise route/timing O, he be an INT machine LOL. Especially on the 12-25 yard stuff.
And durability.....I'm not sure Bradford could take the hits after releasing though in today's NFL that would be less of a problem than it was from 99-01 when Warner was getting hit just after the release all game long.
Bradford is a different type of QB. MaxQ is not his game.
Thordaddy
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I Even contest the "Martz can't" meme especially when it's said by people who advance the idea Spags will do well in his next HC job
Belicek and Carrol are people fired and got another shot and are doing well. Saying "Martz can't " may as well be finished with "learn"which I discount
If I had the option to hire THE guy who beat me in my one SB appearance and I passed because I was of the belief I couldn't blend his personality into a staff, I'd be questioning my own motives and abilities.
Now DOES Fisher hate MM? Mike was know to return disrespect so could be some history dunno, The worst Martz ever did looks good now and it was by most accounts here with guys past prime and a roster depleted by a lack of skills we wouldn't even want from him.
Martz could teach Sam as much in one offseason as the rest of his Ocs have taught him combined.
The Rams utilized the greatest secret of failure,"find the most. Competent man and fire him" we have been giddy three times when we approached his WORST IMO Stan Kroenke needs to channel his inner Stienbrenned( that ones fer u Selassie
Belicek and Carrol are people fired and got another shot and are doing well. Saying "Martz can't " may as well be finished with "learn"which I discount
If I had the option to hire THE guy who beat me in my one SB appearance and I passed because I was of the belief I couldn't blend his personality into a staff, I'd be questioning my own motives and abilities.
Now DOES Fisher hate MM? Mike was know to return disrespect so could be some history dunno, The worst Martz ever did looks good now and it was by most accounts here with guys past prime and a roster depleted by a lack of skills we wouldn't even want from him.
Martz could teach Sam as much in one offseason as the rest of his Ocs have taught him combined.
The Rams utilized the greatest secret of failure,"find the most. Competent man and fire him" we have been giddy three times when we approached his WORST IMO Stan Kroenke needs to channel his inner Stienbrenned( that ones fer u Selassie
Thordaddy
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LesBaker said:
Les you need to read up on Martz offense he developed it for a QB who was almost blind,the reason Warner was benched was FOR reading defenses and worrying about ints So I don't think Sam can't run an offense John Kitna can run, just sayin
LesBaker
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Thordaddy said:
Well maybe I should have been clearer, Bradford could play in that system of course, he is smart enough to grasp it. But he is a crappy fit for it.
Kitna had a couple of good years as far as yardage but he was throwing it 600 times a year and had more INT's than TD's. So the idea that Martz turned Kitna into a really excellent QB which is an argument I've heard before, is simply untrue. Also Kitna got the shit beaten out of him in the pocket.
Like I said Bradford is not a MaxQ type of QB. I've seen a small number of guys that I think could operate successfully in that system. It's not as easy as plug in a QB and let Martz dial up the plays. You have to have a pretty rare skill set to do it well, otherwise all you end up with is a QB that chucks it a ton, gets beat up, throws a lot of INT's but is always throwing for big yards.
What do you mean a QB that was almost blind?
fearsomefour
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The missing piece of the equation in all of this Martz talk and QBs are the receivers.
A true timing offense like Martzs' passing game requires QB and WR to be on the same page in terms of making reads and also in terms of timing. I remember reading a thing with Warner where he said if Bruce ran a route that was 12 yards and out he knew he could trust him to be 12 yards....not 10 and a half not 13. Holt said if ran a route where he was to turn and look for the ball the ball would on the way before he made his break and was on time. This is not unusual for NFL passing games. GSOT took it to an amazing level when it was clicking. However it is pretty hard to have that kind of timing (accuracy) when the QB cant trust the receivers and vice versa. I think this is a contributing factor (along with scheme and pressure) to the kind of passes that are being completed. The kind of passes where Bradfords back foot hits the ground at the end of his drop and the ball is out to a cutting receiver 10-15 yards down field just isent there at this point. This is hindering the passing game as much as anything....this is also why I think Pettis is still on the field so much....Bradford is missing Amendola for sure.
A true timing offense like Martzs' passing game requires QB and WR to be on the same page in terms of making reads and also in terms of timing. I remember reading a thing with Warner where he said if Bruce ran a route that was 12 yards and out he knew he could trust him to be 12 yards....not 10 and a half not 13. Holt said if ran a route where he was to turn and look for the ball the ball would on the way before he made his break and was on time. This is not unusual for NFL passing games. GSOT took it to an amazing level when it was clicking. However it is pretty hard to have that kind of timing (accuracy) when the QB cant trust the receivers and vice versa. I think this is a contributing factor (along with scheme and pressure) to the kind of passes that are being completed. The kind of passes where Bradfords back foot hits the ground at the end of his drop and the ball is out to a cutting receiver 10-15 yards down field just isent there at this point. This is hindering the passing game as much as anything....this is also why I think Pettis is still on the field so much....Bradford is missing Amendola for sure.
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Bulger a twig ? That's being kind...
Thordaddy
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That's me kind to a faultSelassie I said:Bulger a twig ? That's being kind...
In the end though the various arguments against Martz hold very little water
If you add his scoring to this teams talent offensively and ability to pass rush you have Coryells Chargers
You always are correct ...like a few weeks ago when you claim that Al Davis didn't want to trade to pick Donnie Avery in 2008 ... yet a reliable source in the Raiders War room during the draft said otherwise.LesBaker said:
"Warner is the answer,Warner is the Answer ... Warner is the answer."
that was a decade ago ... lets move on
why is it ok for him to do it on other threads?X said:
Rabid Ram said:
and why wasn't your message in private? I didn't know that Les Baker was the owner of the board ... my bad.