All this talk about hiring Martz?

[iced]

Same, I love you guys, but sometimes I'm glad you guys aren't the GM.

That thing failed for a reason, it's time to leave that regime in the past. We have nothing to gain by giving Martz the reigns again.

he wouldn't be my first choice

but I wouldn't veto it either

If Fisher doesn't pan out and the guy we got next can make something happen with Martz, I definitely wouldn't object to him coming back.

But him being the head coach or coming in right now? Disaster waiting to happen. It'd be McDaniels all over again.

possibly

i actually would love martz at oc or some bright mind from green bay/new orleans and lovie smith at dc next season

 

[BobCarl]

Now, with all that said, let me be clear. There aren't many (if any) offensive coordinators who are as innovative as Martz. I love Mike Martz to death, and appreciate everything he did here as a coordinator. Without him, I don't know that Vermeil gets his ring. All I'm saying is, it's not a good fit. And I explained why I thought as much.

I would agree that Martz and Fisher is a no go.

For Martz to be successful is for him to be both the GM and the HC.

In 1998 the Team Management completely lost the players, Vermeil was a hard ass and the players hated him. For 1999 Vermeil had to become a PR guy and the team's cheerleader. Shaw had most of the team's power and let Zygmunt and Martz grab all the power they could get.

Martz got most of the credit for 1999 and Zygmunt got very little for that season and felt he deserved recognition. by 2000 Martz should have had 100% control over drafting, personnel and game planning ... yet Zygmunt stepped in and meddled and began effing things up. Zygmunt and Shaw knew big business very well, but neither of them understood the football side of things.

A decade ago ...HC's had a lot of power in their team's organization, today they don't have as much. I don't think Martz could be a HC anywhere in the NFL. GM somewhere perhaps ...

A head coach these days is like a race car driver ... give a great driver a great car and they will either crash it into the wall or win the race ... but give a great driver a shitty car ... and we cant really expect him to win the Indy 500 with it.

Give Mario Andretti a car that has one broken cylinder ? can he realistically be expected to compete against cars that are running smoothly on all cylinders?

Fisher's offense is missing an obvious cylinder ... a running back ... a successful running game will result in an improved short range, middle range, and deep passing game.

Get Fisher a top tier Middle Linebacker and the other ten defensive positions will be able to step up their game. The guy we have ... opponents don't have to plan for him nor around him.... they bring their game plan and shove it down our throats.

Bring in Martz? Hell no. Fire Fisher? I'm not ready to blame Fisher yet ... Get him a marquee RB and ML and this team still sputters? Fine then I'll be all over Fisher's case.

Even the personnel and GM side of things ... I can't blame them yet ... if they screw up the two first round picks next year ... then I'll be calling for their heads....

Two good picks next season and this team can start winning a lot of games ... and set us up in 2015 for a deep run in the playoffs.

All I want for Christmas (next year's draft) is my two front teeth ... two more players in the forefront that will give us the ability to take huge bites and give us a reason to smile real big.

:tooth:

 

[-X-]

by 2000 Martz should have had 100% control over drafting, personnel and game planning ...

Oof. Martz as GM? I'm sorry, Bob ... but I can't endorse that notion at all.
I don't think he should be anywhere near a draft room.

 

[HometownBoy]

recognition. by 2000 Martz should have had 100% control over drafting, personnel and game planning

Buddy you might need to put the Coors down, outside of some isolated picks, most of those guys were Martz guys.

His talent evaluation skills are not as high as you praise them, he can make an offense a fantastic one, but he can't make it by himself.

 

[BobCarl]

by 2000 Martz should have had 100% control over drafting, personnel and game planning ...

Oof. Martz as GM? I'm sorry, Bob ... but I can't endorse that notion at all.
I don't think he should be anywhere near a draft room.

There seems to be 32 Team owners that agree with you. And I'm not suggesting at all that Martz should be the GM of the Rams.

While I think Martz could do a better job than some NFL teams are doing right now ... my point is ... I don't think Martz's system will work anywhere at all unless he has full control over the organization.

 

[-X-]

I don't think Martz's system will work anywhere at all unless he has full control over the organization.

I dunno. Tell you what though, I would love to see it. It would either be the most remarkable team ever fielded, or the biggest implosion of an Organization ever. Martz is most definitely an all or nothing kinda guy.

 

[BobCarl]

Buddy you might need to put the Coors down, outside of some isolated picks, most of those guys were Martz guys.

His talent evaluation skills are not as high as you praise them, he can make an offense a fantastic one, but he can't make it by himself.

I never touch coors. and it sounds like you think I'm giving more credit to Martz than I am. I think in my post I said "NO" to Martz being with the Rams more than once.

as far as talent evaluation ... I don't think a HC has time to evaluate more than 53 players ... Martz as HC didn't... yet several thousand players need to have tabs kept on them. There is no way that Martz could be great at drafting with out a good personnel dept ... (something he didn't have).

The NFL had passed Charlie Army by and Jay Zigmunt was a financial operations and legal operations guy, but not a football operations guy. The more power that Zigmunt grabbed, the worse the Rams got.

Today's NFL teams need a GM that understands the game from the field up .. not from the accounting office up.

 

[BobCarl]

I dunno. (could be) the biggest implosion

I hear what you are saying ... I think with Martz, that the implosions are worse when he doesn't have the control ... like San Francisco and Detroit.

If Martz is in control, he will hire people that will do things his way.

(I'm still saying that Martz should NOT be with the Rams in any capacity)

 

[-X-]

I dunno. (could be) the biggest implosion

I hear what you are saying ... I think with Martz, that the implosions are worse when he doesn't have the control ... like San Francisco and Detroit.

If Martz is in control, he will hire people that will do things his way.

(I'm still saying that Martz should NOT be with the Rams in any capacity)

I agree in principle. I don't know if that would be a successful recipe or not, but I would like to see it. Thanks for reinforcing my point that you can't force him into a situation that isn't ideally suited for him just because of his past achievements in a remarkable situation.

 

[-X-]

This is only for informational purposes and not to rip on Martz. I just thought this was interesting. It's all of the draft picks made by the teams with which he's served since 1999.

 

[joeybittick]

So, people are already trying to get that train going again? :nono:

I think I've just seen a ghost.

Hopefully it's a friendly ghost :sly:

Not for nothing Brudda...

But you got some splaining to do. :what:

Not to derail the thread, I'll be quick. I have been very busy and have resorted to just reading rather than posting. And, for some reason, this offseason seemed unendurable to me. I just couldn't wait for the team to be back to playing, I just tried not to think about football too much until the time came when they were back on the field.

But, whether I post or not, I am always lurking around eek: :cheese:

 

[LesBaker]

When I see posts about hiring Martz I giggle. Bradford couldn't handle that shit it's not his skill set.

He would poop his pants by halftime. Only Warner could QB that.

 

[iced]

When I see posts about hiring Martz I giggle. Bradford couldn't handle that shyte it's not his skill set.

He would poop his pants by halftime. Only Warner could QB that.

how do you figure?

bradford's supposed strong suit is the spread offense - sounds like a logical fit for martz

 

[brokeu91]

I don't want Martz as the OC. What I would love to have Martz do is help design an offense that is more attacking. The opposing defense is bottled up within the first 10-15 yards because they know we aren't going to try to stretch the field. He will make the opposing defense respect the longer play.

Martz could come up with ways to use the weapons that we have (Cook, Austin). He can find ways to help push the ball down the field. He was so great at creating mismatches and then exploiting them. He put his offensive guys in position to succeed by playing to their strengths and he was able to get QBs to play well and helping them gain a more gunslinger attitude (something Bradford desperately needs right now).

I'm not saying hire Martz to be OC per se, but maybe someone with his attitude. Vermiel was more conservative than Martz and they both pushed each other. The result was one of the greatest offenses I have ever seen. I think if the Rams could find someone who could push Fisher the offense could be much more effective.

 

[-X-]

When I see posts about hiring Martz I giggle. Bradford couldn't handle that shit it's not his skill set.

He would poop his pants by halftime. Only Warner could QB that.

I don't know. Bradford takes his share of licks too. And has for some time.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re2wuMWw4UY[/youtube]

Question his manhood again and I'll slap the lipstick right off your face, bitch. Seriously though, what kind of system do you think he would thrive in? Like, which coordinator do you think would most fit Bradford's style of play?

 

[iced]

I don't want Martz as the OC. What I would love to have Martz do is help design an offense that is more attacking. The opposing defense is bottled up within the first 10-15 yards because they know we aren't going to try to stretch the field. He will make the opposing defense respect the longer play.

Martz could come up with ways to use the weapons that we have (Cook, Austin). He can find ways to help push the ball down the field. He was so great at creating mismatches and then exploiting them. He put his offensive guys in position to succeed by playing to their strengths and he was able to get QBs to play well and helping them gain a more gunslinger attitude (something Bradford desperately needs right now).

I'm not saying hire Martz to be OC per se, but maybe someone with his attitude. Vermiel was more conservative than Martz and they both pushed each other. The result was one of the greatest offenses I have ever seen. I think if the Rams could find someone who could push Fisher the offense could be much more effective.

here's an idea

Martz as an offensive assistant?

 

[-X-]

I don't want Martz as the OC. What I would love to have Martz do is help design an offense that is more attacking. The opposing defense is bottled up within the first 10-15 yards because they know we aren't going to try to stretch the field. He will make the opposing defense respect the longer play.

Martz could come up with ways to use the weapons that we have (Cook, Austin). He can find ways to help push the ball down the field. He was so great at creating mismatches and then exploiting them. He put his offensive guys in position to succeed by playing to their strengths and he was able to get QBs to play well and helping them gain a more gunslinger attitude (something Bradford desperately needs right now).

I'm not saying hire Martz to be OC per se, but maybe someone with his attitude. Vermiel was more conservative than Martz and they both pushed each other. The result was one of the greatest offenses I have ever seen. I think if the Rams could find someone who could push Fisher the offense could be much more effective.

here's an idea

Martz as an offensive assistant?

Boom. Make it happen, Cap'n.

 

[Thordaddy]

I guess Martz = gun control on a football board

 

[-X-]

I guess Martz = gun control on a football board

Huh?

 

[Lesson]

IMO, if the FO didn't hate Martz nor draft poorly, he'd still be in St. Louis. Martz with a competent personnel guy(Charlie Armey) was alright. But with Zygmunt and Shaw, shit went down hill.