Watkins vs Evans? My Scouting Reports!

[RFIP]

I don't need 1k + 10 tds from Watkjns year one to validate him however with his deep speed and his abilities around the LOS I can easily see him in the 800 yard range.

Again however, what his skill set will do opposite Bailey and Tavon, not to mention Cook, will be worth it's wait in gold.

Watkins will be a rookie. Expecting him to be an elite #1 WR now is unrealistic imo.

As I said before, the only two ROOKIE WRs to put up 1000+ yards and 10+ TDs since the merger were John Jefferson in 1978(Air Coryell) and Randy Moss in 1998. Maybe this is just my personal opinion but Sammy Watkins isn't Randy Moss.

The kid has talent but expecting him to be an elite #1 WR right now is very unrealistic. And if you have that standard, he'll most likely end up disappointing you.

 

[jrry32]

I don't need 1k + 10 tds from Watkjns year one to validate him however with his deep speed and his abilities around the LOS I can easily see him in the 800 yard range.

Again however, what his skill set will do opposite Bailey and Tavon, not to mention Cook, will be worth it's wait in gold.

800 yards isn't an elite #1 WR. Which is why I question the reasoning that you can't pick Evans because it might take him until year two or three to become an "elite #1"(if he becomes that). Because it'll likely take Watkins just as long(if he becomes that).

 

[RFIP]

Watkins, with his skill set will do vastly more for the rest of this offense than a struggling, plodding Evans. It's as simple as that really.

I mean we've seen the value of Quick when he's on the field correct? Which is to say ZERO to the rest of the offense.

Watkins speed alone will be enough to change defenses let alone the dilemma of how DBS won't be able to just give him a cushion for fear of what happens if Sam just rises up and flops the ball out to him against that soft coverage.

Watkins for me all day and especially 5/8.

800 yards isn't an elite #1 WR. Which is why I question the reasoning that you can't pick Evans because it might take him until year two or three to become an "elite #1"(if he becomes that). Because it'll likely take Watkins just as long(if he becomes that).

 

[jrry32]

Watkins, with his skill set will do vastly more for the rest of this offense than a struggling, plodding Evans. It's as simple as that really.

Except Evans isn't a plodder, he offers more in the red-zone, and he's the superior blocker. Watkins will produce more as a rookie because speed tends to translate well. But I don't see either guy being the missing piece to the puzzle as rookies. So Evans needing time to develop shouldn't stop us from drafting him...when you admit that even Watkins needs time to develop.

I mean we've seen the value of Quick when he's on the field correct? Which is to say ZERO to the rest of the offense.

We've seen the value of Givens too. Evans isn't Quick and Watkins isn't Givens. So there's no point in making the comparison.

And Quick's value is more than zero. He's shown some flashes of brilliance...just not nearly enough.

Watkins speed alone will be enough to change defenses let alone the dilemma of how DBS won't be able to just give him a cushion for fear of what happens if Sam just rises up and flops the ball out to him against that soft coverage.

That doesn't work in the NFL likes it does in college. We saw what happened when we tried that with Tavon who is faster and a superior runner with the ball in his hands. They have to respect your all around game before you can beat teams with screens. NFL CBs are athletic and usually tackle well(usually is the keyword...cough Janoris cough).

Watkins for me all day and especially 5/8.

Well yea, Watkins is my #1 rated WR. But it's not as simple as Watkins vs. Evans. It's very possible that we can't trade down and get Watkins. Whereas we could trade down and gets Evans. So then it becomes Evans + a 2nd + more vs. Watkins. And frankly, that's not much of a contest for me.

 

[RFIP]

Only18 1/2 more days of this I guess. There just isn't any middle ground for us here.

Except Evans isn't a plodder, he offers more in the red-zone, and he's the superior blocker. Watkins will produce more as a rookie because speed tends to translate well. But I don't see either guy being the missing piece to the puzzle as rookies. So Evans needing time to develop shouldn't stop us from drafting him...when you admit that even Watkins needs time to develop.



We've seen the value of Givens too. Evans isn't Quick and Watkins isn't Givens. So there's no point in making the comparison.

And Quick's value is more than zero. He's shown some flashes of brilliance...just not nearly enough.



That doesn't work in the NFL likes it does in college. We saw what happened when we tried that with Tavon who is faster and a superior runner with the ball in his hands. They have to respect your all around game before you can beat teams with screens. NFL CBs are athletic and usually tackle well(usually is the keyword...cough Janoris cough).



Well yea, Watkins is my #1 rated WR. But it's not as simple as Watkins vs. Evans. It's very possible that we can't trade down and get Watkins. Whereas we could trade down and gets Evans. So then it becomes Evans + a 2nd + more vs. Watkins. And frankly, that's not much of a contest for me.

 

[jrry32]

Only18 1/2 more days of this I guess. There just isn't any middle ground for us here.

There's plenty of middle ground, RFIP. You are just choosing not to see it. I'm not a person that dislikes Watkins, thinks he'll bust, or even doesn't rate him as the top WR in the draft. I'm plenty high on the guy. I rate him as a top 6 prospect in this draft and the #1 WR.

I made the same mistake you're making in expecting Tavon to be able to pick-up yardage left and right on screens. It didn't workout for him as a rookie. Because teams weren't threatened by his all around game. They weren't on their heels. And the screen game in the NFL doesn't work unless you get guys on their heels. The CBs are too big, too fast, too strong, and too good at tackling.

It's why WR screens are nowhere near as prevalent in the NFL as they are in college football. The CBs are too good and talented and the WRs don't get near the cushion.

 

[RamsAndEwe]

I'm not a Manziel guy. I'm distrustful of QBs that don't look comfortable in the pocket and are reliant on their legs to decipher the defense. He's too much of a risk for me to get behind.

As far as throwing left, it's impressive. Check Blake Bortles from UCF out if you have the chance. He's a right-handed QB who weirdly enough probably throws most accurately when moving to his left. He has made some insanely good throws while scrambling to his left.

I like Blake Bortles. I think Bortles may go to Houston with the first pick. Houston's new QB coach recruited Blake at Central Florida. That's 1 of 4 Houston/Bortles connections. I also find it interesting that Houston's new QB coach spent the last two years with the Patriots. So Houston's QB coach has seen Tom Brady up close and personal. Brady would bode well for Blake Bortles. Say that three times fast!

 

[jrry32]

I like Blake Bortles. I think Bortles still may go to Houston with the first pick. Houston's new QB coach recruited Blake at Central Florida. That's 1 of 4 Houston/Bortles connections. I also find it interesting that Houston's new QB coach spent the last two years with the Patriots. So Houston's QB coach has seen Tom Brady up close and personal. Brady would bode well for Blake Bortles. Say that three times fast!

I like Bortles. Personally, I wouldn't take him at #1. He's my #2 QB in this class. I'm a huge Bridgewater guy. Have been for a good while. Seems like the Bridgewater bandwagon has gotten emptier and emptier as the draft has approached.

But yea, Bortles is raw but I think he has a lot of Big Ben's mannerisms to his game. Doesn't have the same type of arm but if he's developed right, I think he can be a good starting QB. Love his pocket presence and improvisational skills.

 

[RamsAndEwe]

I like Bortles. Personally, I wouldn't take him at #1. He's my #2 QB in this class. I'm a huge Bridgewater guy. Have been for a good while. Seems like the Bridgewater bandwagon has gotten emptier and emptier as the draft has approached.

But yea, Bortles is raw but I think he has a lot of Big Ben's mannerisms to his game. Doesn't have the same type of arm but if he's developed right, I think he can be a good starting QB. Love his pocket presence and improvisational skills.

There is a gigantic anti quarterback smoke screen this year. I think Mel Kiper recently had the Rams taking Bridgewater with our 2nd round pick. Ha ha, there no way Bridgewater falls that far. "Bridgewater Falls!" I like the sound of that. Bridgewater Falls could be a chick flick. Total fiction.
Teddy "Bear" Bridgewater will be drafted before our 13th pick rolls around.

 

[jrry32]

There is a gigantic anti quarterback smoke screen this year. I think Mel Kiper recently had the Rams taking Bridgewater with our 2nd round pick. Ha ha, there no way Bridgewater falls that far. "Bridgewater Falls!" I like the sound of that. Bridgewater Falls could be a chick flick. Total fiction.
Teddy "Bear" Bridgewater will be drafted before our 13th pick rolls around.

Someone mocked that scenario in the mock draft forum and as I told them, if we get Bridgewater in the 2nd...we won the draft. That kid is going to be a good NFL QB. The difference between franchise QBs and JAGs is what is in between the ears. And from all the film I've evaluated, Bridgewater has the attributes between the ears to be great along with the instincts. Plus, he meets all the physical minimums. If the Rams needed a QB, I'd take him at #2 without thinking twice.

 

[RFIP]

There's plenty of middle ground, RFIP. You are just choosing not to see it. I'm not a person that dislikes Watkins, thinks he'll bust, or even doesn't rate him as the top WR in the draft. I'm plenty high on the guy. I rate him as a top 6 prospect in this draft and the #1 WR.

I made the same mistake you're making in expecting Tavon to be able to pick-up yardage left and right on screens. It didn't workout for him as a rookie. Because teams weren't threatened by his all around game. They weren't on their heels. And the screen game in the NFL doesn't work unless you get guys on their heels. The CBs are too big, too fast, too strong, and too good at tackling.

It's why WR screens are nowhere near as prevalent in the NFL as they are in college football. The CBs are too good and talented and the WRs don't get near the cushion.

I respect your opinion but it worries me that you think Watkins is going to pick of YAC on screens like Austin will. One avoids defenders as his primary weapon and the other is Harvin-esque.

I trust you can decipher which is which?

And by having to commit more players to Watkins is only going to, by simple math, relegate less to Tavon.

And for the record, I am not against Evans, I am against him for the Rams because of Quick.

As I have said, if Quick would have panned out and was our #1 stud wr I'd be all for moving down and taking a "chance" on someone else.

As it stands, I wouldn't make that mistake again.

 

[Alan]

RamsAndEwe not thinking Sam is the answer:
I could write a lot about Manziel. I've seen every play of his college career, and some of his high school tape. Yet, it has been my experience that discussing a new Rams QB starts board wars. Sometimes I wonder if my favorite team is the Saint Louis Sams. lol

I will say this about Manziel. Manziel is a true leader. (of course you can't lead in the NFL unless you produce on the field) Manziel's teammates would follow him into hell and war!

Johnny Manziel is very smart. He has been practicing his baseball slide, because he knows he can't take a bunch of NFL type hits. Johnny knows the sideline is his friend, and he will run out of bounds often. He's not like RG3. RG3 believed his own hype, and thought he was Superman. RG3 didn't know every defender carries a pocket full of Kryptonite in every devastating hit.
We all remember Manziel's Heisman year. Did you know that in 2013, Manziel ran 65 less times and threw 14 more TD's then his Heisman year.

If Manziel slips to 13 I would run to the podium and draft him. Yes I would. There is no way Johnny slips that far. How do I know? I've seen every play in every game in Johnny Football's career. Besides his big play magic, I've never seen a right handed QB in college or the NFL roll left as well as Manziel and throw accurate 55 yard passes. Manziel is uber deadly rolling either way, but he may roll left better than right. Kurt Warner watched Manziel, and Kurt said, "There aren't 10 QB's in the NFL who can make the throws Manziel makes."

That's good news for the Rams! Manziel will be gone by the fifth pick. No way in hell he slips past Tampa Bay at 7! The more QB's picked in the top 10, the more positional players for us, and the more trade value power our #2 pick accumulates. There will be at least 3 quarterbacks off the board by the time our 13 pick rolls around. Mark my words.

I haven't done a fraction of the research you seem to have done on Manziel but there is a good reason for that. I'm happy with Sam.

The only way your plan of running to the podium to pick Manziel at #13 works for the Rams is if Sam fails. If Sam doesn't fail then you've just wasted a huge amount of resources to get a backup QB who hopefully won't ever see the field except in blowouts.

At first glance, you don't seem to believe in your own analysis of the situation. To pick a QB at #13 you have to believe that Sam isn't the answer. Yet even though you seem to believe that, you won't go all in on your beliefs by drafting him at #2. As you yourself say, Manziel won't be there at #13. How does that work? Am I misreading you here? Because I really don't understand your thinking on this.

 

[RFIP]

There is a gigantic anti quarterback smoke screen this year. I think Mel Kiper recently had the Rams taking Bridgewater with our 2nd round pick. Ha ha, there no way Bridgewater falls that far. "Bridgewater Falls!" I like the sound of that. Bridgewater Falls could be a chick flick. Total fiction.
Teddy "Bear" Bridgewater will be drafted before our 13th pick rolls around.

I think when it's all said and done Bridgewater may end up right where he was 3 months ago, as the first QB off the board.

That said, I've stated a while back that I do not think ANY QB goes in the top 5 picks.

 

[jrry32]

I respect your opinion but it worries me that you think Watkins is going to pick of YAC on screens like Austin will. One avoids defenders as his primary weapon and the other is Harvin-esque.

I trust you can decipher which is which?

It worries you? How they do it is irrelevant. If you're going to argue that Watkins is a better runner with the ball in his hands, you're right. There is no middle ground here.

Austin is faster and the more effective runner with the ball in his hands. And yet the screens weren't working.

As far as Watkins being Harvin-esque, I don't agree. Watkins doesn't possess the same type of wiggle that Harvin does/did. There's only one Percy Harvin...and that's Percy Harvin.


And if you're opining that Watkins will pick-up a lot of yardage on screens with power and strength(since you argue that Austin not doing it that well as a rookie had to with him trying to accomplish it differently)...wouldn't we want Evans considering he's bigger and stronger? Just saying.

And for the record, I am not against Evans, I am against him for the Rams because of Quick.

As I have said, if Quick would have panned out and was our #1 stud wr I'd be all for moving down and taking a "chance" on someone else.

As it stands, I wouldn't make that mistake again.

You're against it because of Quick? Didn't you just say this about Quick?

I mean we've seen the value of Quick when he's on the field correct? Which is to say ZERO to the rest of the offense.

Evans isn't Quick. He's a completely different player. He's much more like the player we should have drafted in 2011...Alshon Jeffery.

 

[Thordaddy]

Watkins simply put is not big enough IMO to be the missing piece in our wr group,Evans is and as jrry said:

"Evans isn't Quick. He's a completely different player. He's much more like the player we should have drafted in 2011...Alshon Jeffery."

 

[LesBaker]

Would you rather have Watkins and an extra 2nd round pick? OR, Evans and an extra 3rd round pick this year, and the Vikings first round pick next year? It's all about cost benefit analysis!

Speaking for myself I want the first next year because then the Rams can have a lot of control over what they do, and if they feel that it's time to move on from Bradford they will have draft capital to get the QB they want.

Plus when RG3 fails it'll be more fun to listen to WASH fans moan and groan while the draft picks Snead and Fisher got are making Pro Bowls.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If Manzeil is available at 13 and the Rams don't trade the pick to a QB needy team that covets him, I may puke. If a team takes a backup and he turns out to be good then they have to trade him or the starter or allow either to walk away. If the team uses a high first round choice on the backup and trades him for a Second round pick (the usual compensation for QBs) then it is a loss. If the Rams believe that Manzeil is going to replace Sam then they should just pick him at 2 and trade Bradford....which would be foolish because Bradford has a much better grip on the pro game than Manziel.

Manzeil has shown that he runs at a hint of pressure. He runs before the pressure arrives. The Falcons and Eagles tried to train that instinct out of Vick and pretty much every NFL team that has had a running QB has tried to do the same. Manzeil scrambled when he had wide open targets far too often. If he hasn't mastered that part of his game after 6 +years of football I don't think he will?

 

[Cardncub]

Awesome report Ewe! Good work.

 

[RamsAndEwe]

I haven't done a fraction of the research you seem to have done on Manziel but there is a good reason for that. I'm happy with Sam.

The only way your plan of running to the podium to pick Manziel at #13 works for the Rams is if Sam fails. If Sam doesn't fail then you've just wasted a huge amount of resources to get a backup QB who hopefully won't ever see the field except in blowouts.

At first glance, you don't seem to believe in your own analysis of the situation. To pick a QB at #13 you have to believe that Sam isn't the answer. Yet even though you seem to believe that, you won't go all in on your beliefs by drafting him at #2. As you yourself say, Manziel won't be there at #13. How does that work? Am I misreading you here? Because I really don't understand your thinking on this.

I would be playing the odds. Sam has been injured for the better part of two seasons. Manziel would groom behind Sam Bradford. If Sam gets injured Manziel, gives us a chance at winning. Sam Bradford's contract will either be extended after 2015 or it won't be.

Suppose Sam Bradford becomes an all pro quarterback in 2014 and 2015. That would mean we made the playoffs and the Rams extend Bradford's contract. Right? If the 49ers could get the 33 pick in the draft, plus a conditional pick in 2014 draft for Alex Smith, then the Rams could always trade away Johnny Manziel for similar draft currency.

The Rams are on the verge on competing for a playoff spot. We want to insure we have a quarterback who can lead them to the Super Bowl, within the next 3 years. I think Manziel will be an all pro QB, so of course I would pick him at 13. Will it happen? No way!

Someday soon our beloved Rams will be so good, that we will have to have a backup QB who can win, if Bradford goes down to injury. Women always worry about their breadwinner!

 

[RamsAndEwe]

If Manzeil is available at 13 and the Rams don't trade the pick to a QB needy team that covets him, I may puke. If a team takes a backup and he turns out to be good then they have to trade him or the starter or allow either to walk away. If the team uses a high first round choice on the backup and trades him for a Second round pick (the usual compensation for QBs) then it is a loss. If the Rams believe that Manzeil is going to replace Sam then they should just pick him at 2 and trade Bradford....which would be foolish because Bradford has a much better grip on the pro game than Manziel.

Manzeil has shown that he runs at a hint of pressure. He runs before the pressure arrives. The Falcons and Eagles tried to train that instinct out of Vick and pretty much every NFL team that has had a running QB has tried to do the same. Manzeil scrambled when he had wide open targets far too often. If he hasn't mastered that part of his game after 6 +years of football I don't think he will?

Of course your right Elm Grove Gnome! The Rams would auction off Johnny Football, with the 13th pick. We will auction off a 1st round quarterback one way or another. Hell, Les Sneed may hold two auctions in the first round. Let's sneak up on Snead and listen to Les!