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Watkins vs Evans? My Scouting Reports!

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by RamsAndEwe, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. NJRamsFan Cocaine Cowboy

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    Did I misread that or did you just say you'd be okay with Manziel after 7? o_O
     
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  2. V3 Well-Known Member

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    You have some excellent posts. I honestly wish you had a segment on the radio where the other idiots would just shut up and listen. Whether I agree or not, you can tell you actually know your stuff and watch games and not highlights. The guys on the radio just watch highlight videos and then read Mike Mayock and then regurgitate that for the listeners. It's a complete waste of airtime, IMO. On top of that, I don't think they've even talked about possibilities past 13. It nice to have in depth stuff like this. JT, Bernie, Gordon, et al need to take notes. Thanks for the posts.
     
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  3. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post! There are a few things that I disagree with that I think are worth addressing but it's clear you put a lot of effort into this and watching the guys play and I really respect that. Kudos. Here are a few points of contention for me:

    I gotta disagree strongly with this. 6 of the top 10 WRs in receiving yards in 2013, 10 of the top 15 in receiving yards, and 16 of the 23 WRs that recorded 1000+ yard seasons were not drafted in the first round. Limiting ourselves to only drafting one of the top two WRs(both are expected to go in the top 10) would be a colossal error because odds are that there will likely be a WR available in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th...or hell...even later rounds...that can be a major contributor in the future.

    This is also considered one of the deepest and most talented WR classes in recent memory. Outside of Evans and Watkins, you have first round talents like Odell Beckham Jr. and Brandin Cooks. In the second round, you have guys like Jordan Matthews and Donte Moncrief(although I don't think he fits our system well). In the third round and later, you still have guys like Jared Abbrederis, Robert Herron, Eric Thomas, and Jeremy Gallon. Even if we don't pick Evans or Watkins, there will likely be a WR with the right value to pick somewhere in the draft...if not...then we pass.

    Gotta disagree. Watkins has excellent body control and adjusts well to the football but I have been unimpressed with his bend and flexibility. He struggles to drop his body and sink his hips hard breaks and cuts. He really has to gear down to make them. I don't think his hips are very flexible.

    I disagree. I think Evans has better hands for the reasons you mentioned in the post. He's better at coming down with contested catches and going up and getting the football. Plus, his hands are just as reliable in terms of dropped passes.

    I think Evans will need a year to adjust to the NFL. He's young and inexperienced as you pointed out. It typically takes big guys a year or two to adjust to the game and catch up. Watkins should do well as a rookie because speed typically translates quickly...especially if you can catch the ball. He'll likely be utilized as more of a deep threat as a rookie as the other parts of his game are developed kind of like Torrey Smith, DeSean Jackson, Mike Wallace, and Chris Givens were utilized as rookies.

    I'd say a realistic expectation from Watkins would be 850-950 yards, 5-6 TDs, and 15-18 yards per catch. From Evans, I'd say probably 300-500 yards, 3-5 TDs, and 16-18 yards per catch. But Evans could surprise as the guy has outstanding hands.

    I gotta disagree with the AJ Green comparison for Watkins, though. Green was so graceful, smooth, and fluid but lacked in great timed speed. Still, his deceptively long strides, size, technique, and ability to attack the ball make him an extremely dangerous vertical threat. I don't really see much of a comparison between the two in terms of physical skill-set or style.

    As I said, just a few minor points of contention. Great job!
     
    #23
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  4. Alan Well-Known Member

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    Well we're on the same page with both the preference of Matthews and the reasons why (some of them anyway). I't will be interesting to hear your thoughts about the O-line and Snishers drafts but I'm sure the Manzeil conversation will be the most fun. For myself, I wouldn't draft Mazeil in any round.
     
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  5. Elmgrovegnome Well-Known Member

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    That is a tough call. Do we know what next years draft is going to be like? Is it going to be 2010? If so then a first next year is not worth as much as a second this year. But yeah I do see what you are saying with the trading back. I would like the Rams to get one of the top players out of this draft and at the same time would like to see an impact player taken. I would be very happy with Matthews. My second choice would be Mack. Getting one of them and then Evans may be preferable to getting Watkins and Lewan.

    Getting only Evans and a bunch of picks would be a wasted opportunity to me. The Rams need some top talent and have a chance to get two very good players. I would hate if they get one pretty good player and a couple more good players. The team is good enough that a few impact players could put them over the top.
     
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  6. RFIP Well-Known Member

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    Watkins will not only be used as a deep threat this year but in the smoke screen game as well. Something he will excellent at.

    But his ability to seperation and to be physical with db's will both be huge pluses for him right out the gate.

    Evans learning curve is going to be a long one I believe, something the Rams, as current constructed simply can not afford.

     
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  7. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's an overstatement. He'll likely break out in Year 2 or Year 3. Regardless, the draft is about the future. The Rams shouldn't pass on Evans because they have to wait and develop him. Drafting purely for today is a recipe for disaster.
     
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  8. Mojo Ram On double secret probation

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    Unless you're the Browns where you have no future.
     
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  9. scifiman Lighten up, life is hard enough.

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    The question is that is wr a bigger priority than an OL or even a FS? I think you bring in the elite OL and the elite FS in round 1. Would not mind having Evans or Watkins but will they make the team that much better in the long run? That elite OL will allow our qb more time to make our wr's better. That FS will help stop those long gains and force turnovers.
     
    #29
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  10. den-the-coach Well-Known Member

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    If the Rams trade down (most likely with the Falcons) Watkins won't be there and IMO if Evans is that good and the Lions love Watkins then IMO why would they pass on Evans or the Bills for that matter too? In the end I don't see either donning horns IMO, however, if they get a 2nd round pick with the trade down (and much more I hope) than Jordan Mattews in round two with their first selection (Falcons) would be just fine as the Rams come away with a pair of Matthews!
     
    #30
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  11. RamsFan14 Well-Known Member

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    @RamsAndEwe why don't you post more often?! That was a really good review of the best playmakers in the draft! Honestly, if we get either one, I'll be pretty happy either way. Both bring there own impressive styles of play to STL, we could use either one honestly.

    @RFIP what's your opinion on Mike Evans? Do you like him as a prospect and if we drafted him, you think it would be a good fit? Just curious.
     
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  12. RFIP Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts on Evans are simple. We need an elite, #1 wr NOW, not in 2-3 years as a "maybe", so because of the bust of Quick, the regression of Givens and the soon to be released Pettis I do not want anything to do with another 'see you in 3 years" wr.

    Evans "may" turn out to be VJax "someday" however the Rams simply do not have the time to wait.
     
    #32
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  13. blackbart Well-Known Member

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    Where are you publishing articles or are you talking about posting here on ROD??
     
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  14. blackbart Well-Known Member

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    Then why are you all over Watkins neither he or any other rookie is going to be that in 2014
     
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  15. Alan Well-Known Member

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    Ewe posts at Rams Buzz too but I think she's talking about here.
     
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  16. RamsAndEwe Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your first point. I should have said Watkins and Evans are the WR's who make sense in the first round. I am a fan of Odell Beckham Jr. and Mathews from Vanderbilt. I can see us trading down our 13 pick and taking a wide receiver. I'm cool with that. I'm guilty of being Miss Obvious stating that Watkins and Evans are the only receivers worth a top 10 pick. My Bad. We have 12 picks, and I want at least 1 wide receiver to compete with our other guys. Givens was our top rated receiver last year and he was ranked 78th in the NFL. We need more WR's.

    I agree with you second point too. Evans has better hands, although their drop rates were very similar. Watkins caught many screens and short passes, which are easy to catch. Mike Evans averaged over 20 yards a catch, and you don't do that catching bubble screens. Many of Evan's catches were contest, so yes Mike Evans has better hands than Sammy Watkins.

    I agree mostly with your predictions for Watkins and Evans. Depending on who draft Mike Evans, I think Evans may catch as many as 7-8 TD's. If he gets a QB who is willing to throw jump balls in the redzone. Actually your predictions are very good. Conservative, but probably accurate. Yet, if either receiver surprises I would bet, they would surprise to the upside.
     
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  17. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Watkins will be a rookie. Expecting him to be an elite #1 WR now is unrealistic imo.

    As I said before, the only two ROOKIE WRs to put up 1000+ yards and 10+ TDs since the merger were John Jefferson in 1978(Air Coryell) and Randy Moss in 1998. Maybe this is just my personal opinion but Sammy Watkins isn't Randy Moss.

    The kid has talent but expecting him to be an elite #1 WR right now is very unrealistic. And if you have that standard, he'll most likely end up disappointing you.
     
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  18. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I'd like to see us grab one somewhere in the draft. And I am also high on OBJ and Matthews among a few other WRs.

    Rookie WRs, especially those coming from spread offenses, are just really tough to gauge. My expectations for Austin were way too high this year. So I'm trying to be more conservative with these guys. You never quite know how long it'll take them to catch up to the pro game mentally. I could see both guys outplaying my projections if they catch on quickly and end up in a good situation...or not meeting my projections if they end up in a bad situation or struggle to master the pro playbook, route tree and understanding of coverages. But I agree, they'd more likely surprise to the over than the under.
     
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  19. RamsAndEwe Well-Known Member

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    I could write a lot about Manziel. I've seen every play of his college career, and some of his high school tape. Yet, it has been my experience that discussing a new Rams QB starts board wars. Sometimes I wonder if my favorite team is the Saint Louis Sams. lol

    I will say this about Manziel. Manziel is a true leader. ( of course you can't lead in the NFL unless you produce on the field) Manziel's teammates would follow him into hell and war!

    Johnny Manziel is very smart. He has been practicing his baseball slide, because he knows he can't take a bunch of NFL type hits. Johnny knows the sideline is his friend, and he will run out of bounds often. He's not like RG3. RG3 believed his own hype, and thought he was Superman. RG3 didn't know every defender carries a pocket full of Kryptonite in every devastating hit.
    We all remember Manziel's Heisman year. Did you know that in 2013, Manziel ran 65 less times and threw 14 more TD's then his Heisman year.

    If Manziel slips to 13 I would run to the podium and draft him. Yes I would. There is no way Johnny slips that far. How do I know? I've seen every play in every game in Johnny Football's career. Besides his big play magic, I've never seen a right handed QB in college or the NFL roll left as well as Manziel and throw accurate 55 yard passes. Manziel is uber deadly rolling either way, but he may roll left better than right. Kurt Warner watched Manziel, and Kurt said, "There aren't 10 QB's in the NFL who can make the throws Manziel makes."

    That's good news for the Rams! Manziel will be gone by the fifth pick. No way in hell he slips past Tampa Bay at 7! The more QB's picked in the top 10, the more positional players for us, and the more trade value power our #2 pick accumulates. There will be at least 3 quarterbacks off the board by the time our 13 pick rolls around. Mark my words.
     
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  20. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Manziel guy. I'm distrustful of QBs that don't look comfortable in the pocket and are reliant on their legs to decipher the defense. He's too much of a risk for me to get behind.

    As far as throwing left, it's impressive. Check Blake Bortles from UCF out if you have the chance. He's a right-handed QB who weirdly enough probably throws most accurately when moving to his left. He has made some insanely good throws while scrambling to his left.
     
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