Two seasons of Tavon Austin

[Marq]

I don't want to keep harping back to this but if you put Austin in a Franchise that is creative on offense, I believe he will live up to his draft status.
This is not having a go at Schotty.. He's in the wrong division to be quite frank

Also look at all the plays he had that were called back because of a penalty. Some didn't even impact the actual play. If you add that to his performance he has been relatively successful despite Schotty.

 

[Mackeyser]

I'm gonna repeat myself because I feel it's important.

Schotty's offense is probably the WORST offense for WRs in the NFL. It's among the most complicated and does the LEAST to adjust to the WRs talent while requiring the most thought. Thus, it requires the most FROM the WRs while getting the least from them.

WRs aren't QBs. They just aren't. This isn't a knock on WRs, but they generally don't run offenses. As in...never. You want your WRs to play fast and aggressive. Most OCs get that. Not Schotty. He's got change after change after change JUST FOR THE PLAYCALL.

Play is called. WR has sight adjustments for that which can alter his routes. The WR has to read the D and know his MULTIPLE routes based on what the D is doing

It can be changed at the LOS. The WR has to rethink his sight adjustments in realtime.

The Snap. Now here's where it gets tricky. What if the D disguised the coverage or comes with a delayed blitz. The Blitz call may require the WR to run route A, but the WR can't see that because he's already into his route, so he runs route B. Meanwhile, the Defense gladly takes that pick-6 to the house and celebrates.

By the way, we've seen this in NY with the Jets AND with the Rams now. And the ONLY reason the Jets had the success they had was they had one of the best OLs in football and an amazing running game that allowed for among the league lows in pass attempts as well as a top 3 D. That's it.

Without a Top 3 Defense and without maybe the best OL in football supporting a top 3 running games... this offense just doesn't work.

And... it chokes WRs to death. They just CAN NOT Play in it.

Plenty of other run heavy offenses have had passing attacks or 1000 yard receivers or at least rookie contributors. This offense has NONE of that. It can't. And it's frustrating because it flashes so brightly...

But this offense has Brian Quick, Kenny Britt, Stedman Bailey, Tavon Austin, Jared Cook, Lance Kendricks and a RB stable of Tre Mason, Benny Cunningham and Zac Stacy. This offense has WEAPONS!!! Plenty of teams have much better offenses with lesser weapons and lesser QBs than Shaun Hill.

So, frankly, it's hard to hear much criticism of Tavon Austin when Schotty's holding this whole offense back... then again, it may be hand in glove philosophically with Fisher, so maybe Fisher's as much to blame...

 

[mr.stlouis]

1.5 seasons of back up QB's

 

[Athos]

Schotty's offense is probably the WORST offense for WRs in the NFL. It's among the most complicated and does the LEAST to adjust to the WRs talent while requiring the most thought. Thus, it requires the most FROM the WRs while getting the least from them.

If this really is the general consensus, he really does need to be pushed out then...with that new CBA, waiting until years 3 and 4 of their rookie deal is just bad value for highly drafted WRs. If his system isn't WR friendly...hell, it doesn't seem ANYTHING friendly given it took several weeks for Stacy and Mason and probably BamBam to get ahold of his system in season....just bleck.

 

[Mackeyser]

You rarely hear players bad-mouth departed coaches, but the Jets WRs were pretty open about how GLAD they were that Schotty was gone.

Now, they haven't been able to show it because the QB play has been abysmal, but the fact that they went public was a story in and of itself...

 

[DaveFan'51]

We're gonna get about a couple hundred more of these player evaluation threads popping up from here on out, so i'll get mine out of the way now.

T.Austin. Color me Not impressed.
Draft day first round trade up. I was all for the pick BTW. I felt it was the right move. I was excited to add the speed and slippery, athletic playmaker.
I expected his natural ability to allow him to make more of an impact even as he was developing and finding his way through the tough transition to the NFL as a WR. One could take the angle of having no legit QB throwing to him or point to Shotty's offense i suppose, but i'm not really buying it at this point. I see that fact being more relevant in terms of the production of other guys more so than Tavon. Britt, Quick, Bailey, Cook etc...

Austin's numbers since drafted two years ago.

2013(13 games)
40 rec 418 yds
10.5 avg/rec
4 TD's

9 rush 151 yds
16.8/carry
1 TD

33 punt ret
280 yds
8.5 avg
1 TD


2014(15 games)
31 rec 242 yds
7.8 avg/rec
0 TD's

36 rush 224 yds
6.2/carry
2 TD's

35 punt ret
391 yds
11.2 avg
1 TD

CAREER
71 rec 660 yds
9.3 avg/rec
4 TD's

45 rush 375 yds
8.3 avg/carry
3 TD's

2 punt ret TD's

That's 9 all purpose TD's in two seasons. We'll get a better gauge next season with(hopefully) a legit QB and a full three seasons....but IMO we drafted another gadget player who's best role is as a punt returner. Hope i'm wrong, but this looks like a swing and a missed pick to me.

Your thoughts?

As a side note I would have liked to see you add in All the TD's and Yards he Lost because of stupid penalties!!

 

[Athos]

As a side note I would have liked to see you add in All the TD's and Yards he Lost because of stupid penalties!!

Really only one play for Austin, I think, was nullified due to penalties. That being Long against the Panthers for a TD. Not much else has been called back sans the returns.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Really only one play for Austin, I think, was nullified due to penalties. That being Long against the Panthers for a TD. Not much else has been called back sans the returns.

I was referring to Tavon's career stats.

 

[RamWoodie]

I didn't vote because the jury is still out. The tendency to want to make snap judgments about a player never ceases to amazes me. Let's not act like the Rams have deployed TA in the best situations, and let's not minimize how tough it is to learn to play in this league. Heck...it seems they've just started to figure that out.

I say Tavon Austin has the heart and ability. Also don't discount the lack of a good QB as a hinderance too. Sam return could change alot along with a better offensive mind.

 

[…..]

This thread reeks of typical blind fandom. Everyone seems to think Tavon will turn into something more than what he is, which is nothing more than a gadget player and future great punt returner.... and thats only if he learns to consistently find his hole without too much dancing. As a wideout, his number are down in year two.

"It typically takes short WR's 3 years to develop" ???? Come on man....i guess Brian Quick is short too huh? Thats the kind of statement arm chair experts make while they truly believe thier 6-10 team is anything other than a 6-10 team. lol

Maaaaaybe in a different offense Tavon can get more space and make more plays, but as it stands right now on this team, Tavon is a gadget who will rule a highlight reel once every so often.

 

[Pancake]

I'm gonna repeat myself because I feel it's important.

Schotty's offense is probably the WORST offense for WRs in the NFL. It's among the most complicated and does the LEAST to adjust to the WRs talent while requiring the most thought. Thus, it requires the most FROM the WRs while getting the least from them.

WRs aren't QBs. They just aren't. This isn't a knock on WRs, but they generally don't run offenses. As in...never. You want your WRs to play fast and aggressive. Most OCs get that. Not Schotty. He's got change after change after change JUST FOR THE PLAYCALL.

Play is called. WR has sight adjustments for that which can alter his routes. The WR has to read the D and know his MULTIPLE routes based on what the D is doing

It can be changed at the LOS. The WR has to rethink his sight adjustments in realtime.

The Snap. Now here's where it gets tricky. What if the D disguised the coverage or comes with a delayed blitz. The Blitz call may require the WR to run route A, but the WR can't see that because he's already into his route, so he runs route B. Meanwhile, the Defense gladly takes that pick-6 to the house and celebrates.

By the way, we've seen this in NY with the Jets AND with the Rams now. And the ONLY reason the Jets had the success they had was they had one of the best OLs in football and an amazing running game that allowed for among the league lows in pass attempts as well as a top 3 D. That's it.

Without a Top 3 Defense and without maybe the best OL in football supporting a top 3 running games... this offense just doesn't work.

And... it chokes WRs to death. They just CAN NOT Play in it.

Plenty of other run heavy offenses have had passing attacks or 1000 yard receivers or at least rookie contributors. This offense has NONE of that. It can't. And it's frustrating because it flashes so brightly...

But this offense has Brian Quick, Kenny Britt, Stedman Bailey, Tavon Austin, Jared Cook, Lance Kendricks and a RB stable of Tre Mason, Benny Cunningham and Zac Stacy. This offense has WEAPONS!!! Plenty of teams have much better offenses with lesser weapons and lesser QBs than Shaun Hill.

So, frankly, it's hard to hear much criticism of Tavon Austin when Schotty's holding this whole offense back... then again, it may be hand in glove philosophically with Fisher, so maybe Fisher's as much to blame...

Boom there it is. Great post Mac.

 

[Pancake]

This thread reeks of typical blind fandom. Everyone seems to think Tavon will turn into something more than what he is, which is nothing more than a gadget player and future great punt returner.... and thats only if he learns to consistently find his hole without too much dancing. As a wideout, his number are down in year two.

"It typically takes short WR's 3 years to develop" ???? Come on man....i guess Brian Quick is short too huh? Thats the kind of statement arm chair experts make while they truly believe thier 6-10 team is anything other than a 6-10 team. lol

Maaaaaybe in a different offense Tavon can get more space and make more plays, but as it stands right now on this team, Tavon is a gadget who will rule a highlight reel once every so often.

To be fair though does Tavon ever get the ball when you didn't expect it? How many players out there can make things happen when everyone knows when he's getting the ball? Keep in mind he is not getting the ball out in open spaces where he excels. He's getting the ball 5-7 yards behind the line on reverses and handoffs. The rare passes are never on the run or deep down the field. They are always short routes and most of the time he has to come to a stop.

 

[WillasDad]

Fire Schott. If Fisher won't do it, fire Fisher. QB situation notwithstanding, 3 years is enough time.

 

[lockdnram21]

To be fair though does Tavon ever get the ball when you didn't expect it? How many players out there can make things happen when everyone knows when he's getting the ball? Keep in mind he is not getting the ball out in open spaces where he excels. He's getting the ball 5-7 yards behind the line on reverses and handoffs. The rare passes are never on the run or deep down the field. They are always short routes and most of the time he has to come to a stop.

Because he's not a good route runner can't beat jams and has a small catching radius. He's a gadget player, a percy Harvin clone

 

[rams56]

I believe he is capable of so much more. Sure they can jam him in the slot but they cannot run with him. He has the ability to beat the safety deep as well as take a short pass to the house. And because he is so young I believe has will improve every year. I have no delusion that he could be a great no. 1 or no.2 for that matter...but I believe he could be a game breaker as a number 3....much like AZ Hakeem. ....I know there are people that disagree with me....and I'm OK with that.....this is just my opinion. .......
Go Rams................

 

[Robocop]

From what I've seen, and maybe a few of you mentioned it here, every catch Tavon makes he has stopped his route. So, he's not moving when he catches the ball, and I think that stop then re-start makes it much easier for defenses to catch up to him. I've heard it pointed out that Schotty's scheme calls for receivers to sit between the zones, or in the holes of the zone, which basically takes away Tavon's best attributes: Speed and Allusiveness.

It seemed like last year Schotty had a few plays where the receivers would basically clear out the secondary with deep routes then have Tavon cross on a shallow 'in route', and when it was thrown to him in stride it was at least a 20 yard gain.

I think many are correct here, when they say Schotty doesn't adapt his system to his players but expects his players to adapt to his system. I'm not saying that is necessarily wrong, I just feel like I see way more success in coaches that know how to integrate the talent of their players with the philosophy of their system. This may be a discussion for a different day, but maybe this is related to Schotty's apparent lack of adjustments throughout games, maybes he's inflexible or stubborn, or just working with what he's got at QB and OL. But I digress.

sounds like long story short, Schotty is a subpar OC

 

[BuffaloRam]

I think that he remains a threat as a PR but won't really light it up as a WR

 

[Angry Ram]

I'm gonna repeat myself because I feel it's important.

Schotty's offense is probably the WORST offense for WRs in the NFL. It's among the most complicated and does the LEAST to adjust to the WRs talent while requiring the most thought. Thus, it requires the most FROM the WRs while getting the least from them.

WRs aren't QBs. They just aren't. This isn't a knock on WRs, but they generally don't run offenses. As in...never. You want your WRs to play fast and aggressive. Most OCs get that. Not Schotty. He's got change after change after change JUST FOR THE PLAYCALL.

Play is called. WR has sight adjustments for that which can alter his routes. The WR has to read the D and know his MULTIPLE routes based on what the D is doing

It can be changed at the LOS. The WR has to rethink his sight adjustments in realtime.

The Snap. Now here's where it gets tricky. What if the D disguised the coverage or comes with a delayed blitz. The Blitz call may require the WR to run route A, but the WR can't see that because he's already into his route, so he runs route B. Meanwhile, the Defense gladly takes that pick-6 to the house and celebrates.

By the way, we've seen this in NY with the Jets AND with the Rams now. And the ONLY reason the Jets had the success they had was they had one of the best OLs in football and an amazing running game that allowed for among the league lows in pass attempts as well as a top 3 D. That's it.

Without a Top 3 Defense and without maybe the best OL in football supporting a top 3 running games... this offense just doesn't work.

And... it chokes WRs to death. They just CAN NOT Play in it.

Plenty of other run heavy offenses have had passing attacks or 1000 yard receivers or at least rookie contributors. This offense has NONE of that. It can't. And it's frustrating because it flashes so brightly...

But this offense has Brian Quick, Kenny Britt, Stedman Bailey, Tavon Austin, Jared Cook, Lance Kendricks and a RB stable of Tre Mason, Benny Cunningham and Zac Stacy. This offense has WEAPONS!!! Plenty of teams have much better offenses with lesser weapons and lesser QBs than Shaun Hill.

So, frankly, it's hard to hear much criticism of Tavon Austin when Schotty's holding this whole offense back... then again, it may be hand in glove philosophically with Fisher, so maybe Fisher's as much to blame...

Brian Quick was on his way to his best year to date.

Kenny Britt has a career high in receiving total since his 2nd year in the league.

Stedman Bailey doubled his offensive production his rookie year (and how many more if he wasn't suspended the first 4 games?)

Jared Cook was 15th in receptions and 12th in yards among TEs.

Lance Kendricks was the team's leading TD receiver. As the #2 TE. Maybe even one more if Austin Davis had found him in the 2nd SF game.

Tre Mason as a rookie was in the top 20 in rushing. And that's despite sharing time and not playing early.

Benny Cunningham made important runs to ice some games.

And for Tavon, it's hard to explain. I do know he plays an important role. Some players take longer to get adjusted. He's a victim of the hype machine. He makes plays tho, and that's what is important.

IDK what happened with Zac. But 2 players doesn't trump the others.

Despite not having a starting QB all season. Despite injuries and terrible penalties (self-inflicted or bullshit). Despite poor execution and turnovers by backup QBs.

And still make the OC a scapegoat?

Also, speaking of QBs, which teams that have "lesser QBs and WRs" have done better? Bucs? Bears? Jaguars? Bills and Texans did so based on strong defense. Some teams even had better QBs and did worse, like the Giants, Falcons, and Saints. It's not an exact science. It just shows there's always more factors than just one coordinator. Always.

 

[thirteen28]

And still make the OC a scapegoat?

I didn't see his post as scapegoating so much as offering well thought-out and constructive criticisms of Schotty's offense. And I think the OC is at least part of the issue with Tavon, because I have little doubt that a guy like Mike Martz, Chip Kelly, Norv Turner, etc. would have as much trouble finding ways to deploy him effectively.