Tim Barnes why? I don't get the love?

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RaminExile

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Whatever his limitations in terms of physical ability and experience (which will naturally improve) he was a big improvement on the crappy play we've had from center before in the form of Scott Wells and others. He seemed to get the protections handled and was smooth in his snapping most of the time. Plays with his head on a swivel. Just not going to drive anyone backwards but not many centers can. I think we could upgrade on him in an ideal world where every other position was set - but there are bigger priorities and he's good enough to help us win now.
 

woofwoofmo

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First, accusing me of using PFF as gospel is a lie which i'm happy to reject. I do find it a useful tool, but I rely on my eyes and other available analysis. You can beat your horse and laugh all you want, but few really use PFF to support all of their arguments, ... it's a reliable service which offers an outline which doesn't discriminate by school, age, height/weight, past years performance, etc. It's only a guideline, no more, no less, and every team in the league uses it and knows what its positives and negatives are. It's no substitute for film, and no-one is suggesting it is. I have found it to be quite reasonable, and since I can't watch every single player and game the league offers each year, I read it knowing the shortcomings.

While you attack PFF for not praising the Rams OL, imagine if Gurley had been running behind those guys if they were all experienced fully developed vets, or been healthy for most of the season, … who knows what he might have accomplished. And if you track week to week, you can find inconsistencies in play, or how they all develop over time. If you watched Barnes this season, he got off to a very rough start and settled down and played better in the second half of the season, all that was reflected by PFF whether you like it or not.

First, I apologize, I was not directing the beating a dead-horse and PFF as gospel specifically at you. It was meant to imply that this subject has been beat many times, in many threads, by many people, self included and always to the same result. Some like Barnes or whatever player is subject of discussion & some don't. It's the same with any player. Always will be disagreement, and hey, that's PFFs best value.

I'm simply passing on what players and coaches say about PFF, those were their reasons, not mine. Believe what you want, teams may subscribe to the data, doesn't mean they use it. My whole point all along has been, that some around here base a majority of their opinion about a player based largely on this rating and it simply isn't the big deal to NFL front offices. Then when the Rams sign Player A who was ranked 10th, instead of Player B, who was ranked 20th, the signing is maligned. I'd rather have a NFL front office making personnel decisions based on all the facts than PFF based on partial fact.
 

blackbart

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I'm good with Barnes and glad they did not go for Mack at more than $10M'year, been there done that and it didn't work out. The Rams are building through the draft and making reasonable signing through FA. Barnes is the reason the Rams won in Seattle. He played well considering the guys around him were a carrousel during the middle of the season and he was trying to help the rookies along. He knows the system and the experience those other guys got will make this unit better going forward. Do they draft another guy to start grooming? Maybe but they still have some holes to fill and that might be a luxury this year.
 

IowaRam

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A lot of us have been Rams fans for years now and have gotten to the point where we believe average is actually an improvment
 

blackbart

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Rams re-sign center Tim Barnes
4:54 p.m. ET, Wed., March 9

According to Sam Farmer, the Rams are bringing back starting center Tim Barnes (45.6 overall grade in 2015). In his first year as a starter, he played in all but five snaps over the course of the season, but graded below average in both pass-blocking and run-blocking. Barnes did have two games against the Seahawks and Lions where he looked like one of the better centers in the league, but in more games than not, he wasn’t helping the team. Outside of right tackle Rob Havenstein (76.3), the Rams’ offensive line is a weak point for the team, and bringing back Barnes isn’t going to help their situation. – Nathan Jahnke
Of course Sam Farmer, he's brilliant far more qualified to evaluate Olinemen than what-his name? Coach Boudreau
 
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BonifayRam

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Ranked 32/40 centers that played last yr in the NFL. Pro football focus. That is literally the worst starting center in the league. Why are fans seemingly fine if Barnes is the guy? Are you all being homers or what? Dude sucks seriously. We better get a replacement or the middle of our line will suffer again. and for those pro football focus haters just watch the tape, Barnes was pushed back to the QB on passing plays quite a bit...
May I offer some help here....below may help you see the reason for the positive Tim Barnes posts:

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads...ff-first-season-as-starter.42877/#post-706211

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads...ff-first-season-as-starter.42877/#post-706065

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/center-alex-mack-is-available.43339/page-2#post-715147

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/center-alex-mack-is-available.43339/#post-714933

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/rams-would-like-to-bring-tim-barnes-back-at-
center.43231/#post-712868

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/alex-mack-anyone.43137/#post-711363

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads...ff-first-season-as-starter.42877/#post-706070
 

Dieter the Brock

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image.jpg
 

Elmgrovegnome

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And you somehow know that he hadn't garnered any interest from others teams?

I'll make two quick points regarding that issue:

Since the Rams tied him up on THE DAY that free agency kicked in there were no "reports" of any other teams being interested.

Secondly, I know for a fact that he had garnered interest from no less than FOUR other teams, including the one who eventually signed Mack.

So maybe you should avoid making assumptions when you don't have all the information.

You his daddy? Best friend (seems it) or just a stalker? either way he is not getting paid Mack money so what does that tell you? Stick to the point. He is not in demand as a top center in the NFL. If he was the Rams would have been deciding if they were going to give him 10 million a year or let him go. Teams want him on the cheap. He can be upgraded.
 

Dieter the Brock

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You his daddy? Best friend (seems it) or just a stalker? either way he is not getting paid Mack money so what does that tell you? Stick to the point. He is not in demand as a top center in the NFL. If he was the Rams would have been deciding if they were going to give him 10 million a year or let him go. Teams want him on the cheap. He can be upgraded.

more playing time and experience that will be what upgrades Barnes. It's a solid move and I'm glad he's with us. GRob, Jamon, Havenstein, and my main man Reynolds with Donnel and Wichman we have got a young line to grow together - I'm excited

I love me some Tim Barnes
- Pappa Barnes
 

DaveFan'51

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Actually, I favored the 33 year old, 10 year vet Manual Ramirez. Older guy, kinda like Evan Mathis last season, good career, looking for one more contract. I also want to draft Nick Martin, so a quality vet mentor for the rookie. In case you're curious, Ramirez graded out as # 4 of 39, Mack was 13 of 39, and Wisniewski graded 19 of 39.
I just had a thought, a question for all out-their who may not want an "Older" O-Lineman. How Old was Jackie Slater when he retired from Football after "20 Years w/ the Rams!!"? I think I made my point!;):D
 

Dieter the Brock

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I just had a thought, a question for all out-their who may not want an "Older" O-Lineman. How Old was Jackie Slater when he retired from Football after "20 Years w/ the Rams!!"? I think I made my point!;):D

Hahha yeah for sure
But I know Rich Saul, Rich Saul was a friend of mine, and Alex Mack is no Rich Saul :LOL:
 

DaveFan'51

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Hahha yeah for sure
But I know Rich Saul, Rich Saul was a friend of mine, and Alex Mack is no Rich Saul :LOL:
:rolllaugh:You got this^ right, that's for sure!!:rolllaugh: Saul was another one of our Great O-Lineman! And we have had a lot of them over the years!!(y)
 

FrantikRam

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Tim Barnes is not a good Center. He has gotten better, but our OL was still a problem last year. Throwing out sacks allowed and rushing yards gained in an attempt to praise our OL paints a very inaccurate picture.

We all remember what happened to Foles against Green Bay right? It seemed to me that we schemed to protect our young OL, and Gurley was amazing.

That the Rams had interest in Alex Mack tells you that even they think Barnes can be upgraded.

So I too don't get the love. Good guy...saved us against Seattle by recovering fumbles...but he will have to improve just to become an average NFL player.
 

12intheBox

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Tim Barnes is not a good Center. He has gotten better, but our OL was still a problem last year. Throwing out sacks allowed and rushing yards gained in an attempt to praise our OL paints a very inaccurate picture.

We all remember what happened to Foles against Green Bay right? It seemed to me that we schemed to protect our young OL, and Gurley was amazing.

That the Rams had interest in Alex Mack tells you that even they think Barnes can be upgraded.

So I too don't get the love. Good guy...saved us against Seattle by recovering fumbles...but he will have to improve just to become an average NFL player.

Mack is an upgrade over most every center in the league. But its a salary cap league -and value has to play into the equation.

Barnes has most of his career ahead of him - and is just starting to reach his potential. Even if his ceiling is never what Mack's is - that doesn't make this a bad signing. At a minimum, we have continuity - which on the O Line is important.
 

woofwoofmo

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You his daddy? Best friend (seems it) or just a stalker? either way he is not getting paid Mack money so what does that tell you? Stick to the point. He is not in demand as a top center in the NFL. If he was the Rams would have been deciding if they were going to give him 10 million a year or let him go. Teams want him on the cheap. He can be upgraded.

Let's stop the insults....no place on this board. That's the reason a lot of us are here, the civility.:grouphug:

Nobody has ever said he was the top center in the NFL, and by the logic used here the Rams should sign every player at the top $$, which would leave them with about a 12 man roster. As to getting him on the cheap, not really an accurate statement. Barnes 2016 salary ranks him 15th out of 63 centers currently on an NFL roster.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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more playing time and experience that will be what upgrades Barnes. It's a solid move and I'm glad he's with us. GRob, Jamon, Havenstein, and my main man Reynolds with Donnel and Wichman we have got a young line to grow together - I'm excited

I love me some Tim Barnes
- Pappa Barnes

I agree. if you take in account what options there are at Center right now it seems obvious that Barnes was the best option. However there are a few on here that are trying to make it sound like he is much better than what we are seeing and that is what I was saying. Barnes is not a 10 million dollar Center. He isn't even a 5 million dollar center. So, that tells me that he isn't seen as a top player at his position, but serviceable.......and his position could be upgraded. The FACT that the Rams had interest in Mack shows that they think they could do better. But with the cap in consideration they went with plan B......Barnes.
 

FrantikRam

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Let's stop the insults....no place on this board. That's the reason a lot of us are here, the civility.:grouphug:

Nobody has ever said he was the top center in the NFL, and by the logic used here the Rams should sign every player at the top $$, which would leave them with about a 12 man roster. As to getting him on the cheap, not really an accurate statement. Barnes 2016 salary ranks him 15th out of 63 centers currently on an NFL roster.


Actually, the OP was just a call out that we can upgrade the C position. He's 100% correct. Barnes is not even a league average player right now - he might get there, but he's not there yet. The OL was still a problem last year - masked by the fact that we ran the ball well at times and only allowed 17 sacks - but still held the offense back. Any offensive player on an almost historically bad offense should be questioned (aside from Tavon and our rookies in our case). The funny part about bashing PFF is that it seems using it to bash Barnes is not okay, but using it to bash Janoris Jenkins is just fine.

If we have to start Barnes next year, I won't lose sleep over it because the players around him should be very good. But he's still the weak link on our OL, and maybe our entire offense after QB.

I don't think the Rams should spend top $ on every player - but looking to upgrade Barnes in the draft is not a bad idea if the right player is there.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Let's stop the insults....no place on this board. That's the reason a lot of us are here, the civility.:grouphug:

Nobody has ever said he was the top center in the NFL, and by the logic used here the Rams should sign every player at the top $$, which would leave them with about a 12 man roster. As to getting him on the cheap, not really an accurate statement. Barnes 2016 salary ranks him 15th out of 63 centers currently on an NFL roster.

Still cheap. The Center market is very weak across the league. Some good ones are still on rookie contracts. As for insults....... . I keep my posts civil 99% of the time. There is an occasional exception.
 

RaminExile

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Still cheap. The Center market is very weak across the league. Some good ones are still on rookie contracts. As for insults....... . I keep my posts civil 99% of the time. There is an occasional exception.

It's not a premium position where teams want to sink cap dollars because it can be "managed" by average guys as long as they've got help and are smart.

Cap money goes to left tackles, pass rushers and quarterbacks which tells you what we already know. It's a passing league!