The Redskins "name"

[EastRam]

I didn't even bother to read thru the entire thread.

With that said. The word "Redskin" is racist. It's wrong and should not be used. It has nothing to do with the financial position of this country or anything else for that matter. It's about Respect.

I for one don't even refer to that nickname. I call them Washington. NBC,CBS,ABC,ESPN and all other media should refer to them as Washington.

Ok I'm done here. Back to football.

 

[Ramhusker]

So say the REDSKINS name is dropped, any suggestions as to what the new name of a team from DC should be?

I'd say one of these:

The LIARS
The PCs
The SPINELESS WEASELS
The APES
The COMRADES
The LOST COLONY
The FIFTH ESTATES
or
The FORESKINS
:sly:

 

[LesBaker]

scroll up

Yeah, I looked at that but I'm a pretty strong sceptic of polls. That poll was from anonymous people who claimed that heritage. The largest groups like the National Congress of American Indians and many tribes find the word offensive.

Then I read that the person who named the team, George Preston, had a reputation as a racist and refused to allow blacks on the team until the Government forced him to.

In his will he stipulated that his foundation never support “the principle of racial integration in any form.”.

That pretty much spells out for me his intent. A slur is a slur because of it's intent.

do you have polls for these groups of indians that find it offensive? Haven't seen one....

<a class="postlink" href="http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/indians-redskins-slur-20505945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ ... r-20505945</a>

The name of a certain pro football team in Washington, D.C., has inspired protests, hearings, editorials, lawsuits, letters from Congress, even a presidential nudge. Yet behind the headlines, it's unclear how many Native Americans think "Redskins" is a racial slur.

Perhaps this uncertainty shouldn't matter — because the word has an undeniably racist history, or because the team says it uses the word with respect, or because in a truly decent society, some would argue, what hurts a few should be avoided by all.

But the thoughts and beliefs of native people are the basis of the debate over changing the team name. And looking across the breadth of Indian Country — with 2 million Indians enrolled in 566 federally recognized tribes, plus another 3.2 million who tell the Census they are Indian — it's difficult to tell how many are opposed to the name.

The controversy has peaked in the last few days. President Barack Obama said Saturday he would consider getting rid of the name if he owned the team, and the NFL took the unprecedented step Monday of promising to meet with the Oneida Indian Nation, which is waging a national ad campaign against the league.

What gets far less attention, though, is this article, posted 6 days ago. (click link for full article)

<a class="postlink" href="http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/indians-redskins-slur-20505945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ ... r-20505945</a>

There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive, although many question the cultural credentials of the respondents.

All of which underscores the oft-overlooked diversity within Indian Country.

"Marginalized communities are too often treated monolithically," said Carter Meland, a professor of American Indian Studies at the University of Minnesota.

"Stories on the mascot issue always end up exploring whether it is right or it is wrong, respectful or disrespectful," said Meland, an Ojibwe Indian.

He believes Indian mascots are disrespectful, but said: "It would be interesting to get a sense of the diversity of opinion within a native community."

Those communities vary widely.

Again - it's clear as day no one really cares about the indian heritage and what they think about it..

I've showed you poll results from '04 , and even now in the Native American schools (and their culture) that have named their own teams the Redskins..

This is political correctness at it's finest.

We white people do some stupid shit to try to make up for what our dumbfuck ancestors did eh. :nono:

 

[LesBaker]

So say the REDSKINS name is dropped, any suggestions as to what the new name of a team from DC should be?

I'd say one of these:

The LIARS
The PCs
The SPINELESS WEASELS
The APES
The COMRADES
The LOST COLONY
The FIFTH ESTATES
:sly:

The new logo should be a pig lol.

 

[mr.stlouis]

I don't get it...

It NEVER dawned on me until they made a big deal about. Heck, I think it's a pretty cool mascot, really.

Actually, for years I thought the "St. Louis Savages" sounded BA. It has a ring to it! Heck I love Native Americans and their culture. It just doesn't seem like a bad thing. It sounds like an actual warrior not just a group of people.

"Washington Native Americans" sounds like dog s****. Changing their historic mascot is would be blatantly WRONG!

But if the sensitive panzies get their panzy way, I agree they need to be change the whole thing. I hope it's the "Washington Rebels" just to stick it to the ones who blew this false delima out of proportion.

Yankees is slang for union soldier! They should change theirs too. If Yankees can stick, the Rebls should too. Go Dixie!

 

[iced]

We white people do some stupid shyte to try to make up for what our dumbfuck ancestors did eh. :nono:

Lol right.

I swear, Anthropology NEEDS to be a required course in elementary school, middle, and high school... If people were more educated, especially after taking that course (or maybe i just had an awesome teacher..but when she's hot you tend to pay more attention :lol: ) , I sincerely doubt we'd have "race issues."

I know some people have completely changed after that - one white guy went from being "arian brotherhood"'ish to completely accepting, even writing a paper emotional enough to bring my teacher to tears... "this is how I was raised, this what I was taught, I had no idea this how it really is, etc"

 

[EastRam]

I don't get it...

It NEVER dawned on me until they made a big deal about. Heck, I think it's a pretty cool mascot, really.

Actually, for years I thought the "St. Louis Savages" sounded BA. It has a ring to it! Heck I love Native Americans and their culture. It just doesn't seem like a bad thing. It sounds like an actual warrior not just a group of people.

"Washington Native Americans" sounds like dog s****. Changing their historic mascot is would be blatantly WRONG!

But if the sensitive panzies get their panzy way, I agree they need to be change the whole thing. I hope it's the "Washington Rebels" just to stick it to the ones who blew this false delima out of proportion.

Yankees is slang for union soldier! They should change theirs too. If Yankees can stick, the Rebls should too. Go Dixie!

Really?

So much for that, I'm back. Oh well.

 

[Selassie I]

I look at it this way... Nobody is going to name their team after something that doesn't represent a positive. They were given that name a very long time ago, and the name was obviously chosen with the thought that "Redskins" is representative of something honorable and Bad Ass enough to name their football team after. No malicious thoughts were behind the name. The name was chosen out of RESPECT for the American Indian.

I understand political correctness,,, but some shit is taken way too far. This is an example if you ask me.


My grandmother was 100% Mohawk btw.

 

[Ramhusker]

I don't get it...

It NEVER dawned on me until they made a big deal about. Heck, I think it's a pretty cool mascot, really.

Actually, for years I thought the "St. Louis Savages" sounded BA. It has a ring to it! Heck I love Native Americans and their culture. It just doesn't seem like a bad thing. It sounds like an actual warrior not just a group of people.

"Washington Native Americans" sounds like dog s****. Changing their historic mascot is would be blatantly WRONG!

But if the sensitive panzies get their panzy way, I agree they need to be change the whole thing. I hope it's the "Washington Rebels" just to stick it to the ones who blew this false delima out of proportion.

Yankees is slang for union soldier! They should change theirs too. If Yankees can stick, the Rebls should too. Go Dixie!

Interesting angle. You know, "yankee" is pretty much a slur down south.

 

[EastRam]

I don't get it...

It NEVER dawned on me until they made a big deal about. Heck, I think it's a pretty cool mascot, really.

Actually, for years I thought the "St. Louis Savages" sounded BA. It has a ring to it! Heck I love Native Americans and their culture. It just doesn't seem like a bad thing. It sounds like an actual warrior not just a group of people.

"Washington Native Americans" sounds like dog s****. Changing their historic mascot is would be blatantly WRONG!

But if the sensitive panzies get their panzy way, I agree they need to be change the whole thing. I hope it's the "Washington Rebels" just to stick it to the ones who blew this false delima out of proportion.

Yankees is slang for union soldier! They should change theirs too. If Yankees can stick, the Rebls should too. Go Dixie!

Interesting angle. You know, "yankee" is pretty much a slur down south.

But not all of us down south use the term "yankee".

 

[Ramhusker]

I don't get it...

It NEVER dawned on me until they made a big deal about. Heck, I think it's a pretty cool mascot, really.

Actually, for years I thought the "St. Louis Savages" sounded BA. It has a ring to it! Heck I love Native Americans and their culture. It just doesn't seem like a bad thing. It sounds like an actual warrior not just a group of people.

"Washington Native Americans" sounds like dog s****. Changing their historic mascot is would be blatantly WRONG!

But if the sensitive panzies get their panzy way, I agree they need to be change the whole thing. I hope it's the "Washington Rebels" just to stick it to the ones who blew this false delima out of proportion.

Yankees is slang for union soldier! They should change theirs too. If Yankees can stick, the Rebls should too. Go Dixie!

Interesting angle. You know, "yankee" is pretty much a slur down south.

But not all of us down south use the term "yankee".

LOL, yeah, some use "damn yankee" but that's just for the ones that come visit and don't go back home! :cheese:

 

[RamzFanz]

There were no NFL teams in the south back then. They adopted the Redskins because they were of the same mindset (banning blacks). Reportedly, that was a big part of why they continued to ban blacks to keep their southern fans and southern TV contracts

"Redskins" and "Braves" is akin to "Yellowskins" and "Samurai". One is a racial slur and the other is a title of a person of respect.

I'm not going to attempt to address every person or school that does or doesn't find it offensive. I wouldn't walk up to someone and call them a redskin so I see it as a slur. Maybe you would call someone a redskin and maybe you don't see it as a slur.

In the end, IMHO, the name will be changed. It's just a matter of time. Maybe now, maybe in 10 years, but in the end, they will tire of having a racial slur as a name and the constant reaction to it.

Anyways, we obviously are on opposite sides of the fence.

It doesn't matter if a team was in the south back then or not. Just because a team wasn't physically there doesn't make it impossible for an owner or someone to be from there and have that mindset, which was predominant regardless of where you lived in the America.

Obviously we are on different sides of the fence but with a different caveat... I'm part native american, my entire family obviously is (both parents have roots in different tribes) - we don't find it offensive. My friend is 3/4 native american (ironically a cowboy fan), same thing...

That was my point - there is always going to be someone who finds something offensive, but the overwhelming majority don't. I don't know what else to tell you. I show you a poll, you dismiss it on the basis of skeptism. I show you quotes from an article that even mentions Native Americans don't have a problem with it and even their schools have football teams named the redskins, which clearly goes the opposite of being offended by it - it's embracing it.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Seems to me you entered this with your mind made up and your feet firmly entrenched in your position from the get go.

Majority of Native Americans don't care, should leave it at that.

This thread is leaning more toward the "never discuss religion and politics" than football.

I honestly don't see why people are bringing in politics into football.

Actually, my mind was made up when I discovered the person who named the team was a huge racist. It seems clear he meant it as a slur. As a renowned racist you don't name your team Redskins, after a person who appears to have been a non-indian who pretended to be indian, without intending it to be a slur.

Yes, I ignore a 2004 poll that was very poorly conducted and doesn't confirm the heritage of the person answering. It's not scientific in any way.

Yes, I ignore a few quotes when compared to in depth report after report from many sources that they are indeed offended and offer a long history of the use of the word and the history of the naming of the team.

Would YOU walk up to a person and call them a redskin in conversation?

 

[Ramhusker]

There were no NFL teams in the south back then. They adopted the Redskins because they were of the same mindset (banning blacks). Reportedly, that was a big part of why they continued to ban blacks to keep their southern fans and southern TV contracts

"Redskins" and "Braves" is akin to "Yellowskins" and "Samurai". One is a racial slur and the other is a title of a person of respect.

I'm not going to attempt to address every person or school that does or doesn't find it offensive. I wouldn't walk up to someone and call them a redskin so I see it as a slur. Maybe you would call someone a redskin and maybe you don't see it as a slur.

In the end, IMHO, the name will be changed. It's just a matter of time. Maybe now, maybe in 10 years, but in the end, they will tire of having a racial slur as a name and the constant reaction to it.

Anyways, we obviously are on opposite sides of the fence.

It doesn't matter if a team was in the south back then or not. Just because a team wasn't physically there doesn't make it impossible for an owner or someone to be from there and have that mindset, which was predominant regardless of where you lived in the America.

Obviously we are on different sides of the fence but with a different caveat... I'm part native american, my entire family obviously is (both parents have roots in different tribes) - we don't find it offensive. My friend is 3/4 native american (ironically a cowboy fan), same thing...

That was my point - there is always going to be someone who finds something offensive, but the overwhelming majority don't. I don't know what else to tell you. I show you a poll, you dismiss it on the basis of skeptism. I show you quotes from an article that even mentions Native Americans don't have a problem with it and even their schools have football teams named the redskins, which clearly goes the opposite of being offended by it - it's embracing it.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Seems to me you entered this with your mind made up and your feet firmly entrenched in your position from the get go.

Majority of Native Americans don't care, should leave it at that.

This thread is leaning more toward the "never discuss religion and politics" than football.

I honestly don't see why people are bringing in politics into football.

Actually, my mind was made up when I discovered the person who named the team was a huge racist. It seems clear he meant it as a slur. As a renowned racist you don't name your team Redskins, after a person who appears to have been a non-indian who pretended to be indian, without intending it to be a slur.

Yes, I ignore a 2004 poll that was very poorly conducted and doesn't confirm the heritage of the person answering. It's not scientific in any way.

Yes, I ignore a few quotes when compared to in depth report after report from many sources that they are indeed offended and offer a long history of the use of the word and the history of the naming of the team.

Would YOU walk up to a person and call them a redskin in conversation?

I probably wouldn't unless they were my friend but I do from time to time wear a "Fighting Whities" t shirt. I bought it from Indians attending University of Northern Colorado. <a class="postlink" href="http://www.cafepress.com/+fighting-whities+t-shirts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.cafepress.com/+fighting-whities+t-shirts</a>

 

[EastRam]

Would YOU walk up to a person and call them a redskin in conversation?

Game, Set and Match.

 

[A55VA6]

I don't really care if it changes or not but I said yes, only because it IS a racist name. If there's any question about the name being offensive, it needs to be changed.

Seriously?

Someone somewhere is always going to find something offensive...

Some people found it offensive to HAVE to say "god" in the pledge allegiance, and the religious types found it offensive that some people refused to say it.. You can consider me an atheist, but I still end up in the apathy group - something stupid to argue over.

Someone sues McDonalds for not having "hot" labeled on their coffee..

It's illegal in some parts of Massachusetts (maybe wrong state but somewhere in New York) to be able to say "curse" words...and that one I don't get, because it's a violation of the freedom of speech.. saying a curse word shouldn't result in a fine.

My point is - Some people are dumb, some people are idiots, but you can ALWAYS count on someone to complain about something offending them.

One thing I have noticed is that it seems there's a fair majority of who have a control issue. Some seem to enjoy telling people what they can't and can say, what they can and can't do...like the pledge of allegiance for example, or it being illegal to say curse words...

Yes, seriously.

Washington Crackers. Washington N******, Washington Redskins.. the list can go on. ALL THE SAME. It's all racism. Why should any of them be treated differently? I don't really care if they are offensive or not, It's still racial slur. In today's life, you can't have any of that.

Everyone looks at it differently.

 

[mr.stlouis]

I don't get it...

It NEVER dawned on me until they made a big deal about. Heck, I think it's a pretty cool mascot, really.

Actually, for years I thought the "St. Louis Savages" sounded BA. It has a ring to it! Heck I love Native Americans and their culture. It just doesn't seem like a bad thing. It sounds like an actual warrior not just a group of people.

"Washington Native Americans" sounds like dog s****. Changing their historic mascot is would be blatantly WRONG!

But if the sensitive panzies get their panzy way, I agree they need to be change the whole thing. I hope it's the "Washington Rebels" just to stick it to the ones who blew this false delima out of proportion.

Yankees is slang for union soldier! They should change theirs too. If Yankees can stick, the Rebls should too. Go Dixie!

Interesting angle. You know, "yankee" is pretty much a slur down south.

Exactly and I'm offended. IT'S BIGOTRY!!!... BLAH BLAH BLAH OMGoshness this is all the lamest thing since Titanic. (It was gonna sink, people! I CALLED IT FROM THE START!!! I shoulda placed wagers at the door!!!)

 

[iced]

Yes, I ignore a 2004 poll that was very poorly conducted and doesn't confirm the heritage of the person answering. It's not scientific in any way.

Okay...and I am sincere in asking this, not trying to offend here..but do you do any research before commenting? I mean even from the same article i Linked..

<a class="postlink" href="http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/how-many-native-americans-think-redskins-is-a-slur/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/ ... is-a-slur/</a>

In 2004, the National Annenberg Election Survey asked 768 people who identified themselves as Indian whether they found the name “Washington Redskins” offensive. Almost 90 percent said it did not bother them.

Game, Set and Match.

Yes, I ignore a few quotes when compared to in depth report after report from many sources that they are indeed offended and offer a long history of the use of the word and the history of the naming of the team.

Would YOU walk up to a person and call them a redskin in conversation?

Lol wow..That's your argument?

So I'm guessing you walk up to a hispanic person and say "Hey, Mexican/Dominican/Spaniard" or a black person and say "Hey Black guy!" or "Hey African American"

And to answer your questions - if I knew the person and if they have the same sense of humor of me, without question...in fact that might be one of the gentler things that could be said in conversation... then again the people I know aren't politically correct freaks, we understand what America is - the land of the diverse...and it's a fuckin shame that people can't pick on each other's differences without having to see a proctologist for their level of butt hurt.


BTW The Redskin term came from honoring a man - and making the point about he felt blacks is irrelevant - this is about indians, not black people...

t was a white man who applied it to this particular football team: Owner George Preston Marshall chose the name in 1932 partly to honor the head coach, William “Lone Star” Dietz, who was known as an Indian.

“The Washington Redskins name has thus from its origin represented a positive meaning distinct from any disparagement that could be viewed in some other context,” NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell wrote in June to 10 members of Congress who challenged the name.

Calling the original owner a racist or what not doesn't have any merit - seeing as how black people didn't get the Civil Rights act until 1964, this doesn't mean much since the team was named in 1932. You could easily make the argument that any former coach/owner prior to the 60s was a racist and probably be right

 

[Thordaddy]

Re: The Redskins "name"

Would YOU walk up to a person and call them a redskin in conversation?

Game, Set and Match.

I would if they were a Redskin now if they were a redskin maybe not SO..........IMA SAY DEUCE

 

[iced]

I don't get it...

It NEVER dawned on me until they made a big deal about. Heck, I think it's a pretty cool mascot, really.

Actually, for years I thought the "St. Louis Savages" sounded BA. It has a ring to it! Heck I love Native Americans and their culture. It just doesn't seem like a bad thing. It sounds like an actual warrior not just a group of people.

"Washington Native Americans" sounds like dog s****. Changing their historic mascot is would be blatantly WRONG!

But if the sensitive panzies get their panzy way, I agree they need to be change the whole thing. I hope it's the "Washington Rebels" just to stick it to the ones who blew this false delima out of proportion.

Yankees is slang for union soldier! They should change theirs too. If Yankees can stick, the Rebls should too. Go Dixie!

Interesting angle. You know, "yankee" is pretty much a slur down south.

Exactly and I'm offended. IT'S BIGOTRY!!!... BLAH BLAH BLAH OMGoshness this is all the lamest thing since Titanic. (It was gonna sink, people! I CALLED IT FROM THE START!!! I shoulda placed wagers at the door!!!)

Wish we had Black people to stand up for us and claim that it's racist toward us, despite how we feel!!



I think this is sad that this is talked about more in the media then the gov't who is content with being paid and not working, while also starting to screw over other Vets and families by denying/reducing SGLI benefits, GI Bill Benefits, etc.. including those benefits to the recently deceased - as in last weekend, not a year ago.

 

[Thordaddy]

Re: The Redskins "name"

Everyone looks at it differently.

Yeah they do but SOME get their undies in a twist over how they see things and make a nuisance of themselves until all dissention from their POV is eradicated ,George Carlin was right