Tavon Austin -- Refocused

[RamzFanz]

I don't think it's fair to put it into those absolute terms. There's no room for the natural progression that all receivers go through in their first 2-3 years if you say either Schotty is negligent or TA is average based on what's transpired in these first 10 games. Some of which, by the way, Austin was limited due to his performance the week prior. In the Jax game he dropped two passes, so they limited his snaps against Tennessee. A game in which they weren't going to target him much anyway because of the favorable matchups Givens and Cook posed. Not to mention Tennessee's vulnerability against the rush.

Which brings me to another point (in which I'm just speaking out loud).

I've seen, in this thread, criticisms about the coaches because our primary receiver regressed (Givens, I presume). Well, how can we on one hand expect Tavon to have record rookie numbers, get Cook involved, establish the run, and get Givens lateral production from his rookie year? What about Pettis? Does he get some of the distribution too? Can I let people in on a little secret? Givens' average yards per game last year was 46.5. This year, it's 46.3. Does regressing mean a drop-off of less than one yard per game now? People know what he can do and they take that part of his game away now. And then there's the fact that we have a backup QB who doesn't have near the same arm strength.

I understand the expectations. We should have crazy yardage in the passing game simply because we added Tavon and signed Cook. Can I ask what that's based on though? When you take into account the lack of a run game early on, spotty offensive line play, and now no starting QB? If the QB spreads the ball around to multiple receivers in a run-oriented offense, why does it mean that the OC doesn't know what he's doing? If Tavon isn't getting crazy yards, it's because he can't yet due to defensive coordinators not being stupid. Also, does anyone remember his comment about how it sounded like they were speaking a foreign language in the huddle this year? Think he can make a sight adjustment off of a pre-snap read yet based on that? And Schotty just now figured that he can run a pick play to spring Tavon? lol. C'mon.......

Let Tavon continue to get his feet wet, and all this talk about how the coaches can't design a game plan better than fans will slowly disappear.

All good points. You will note that I said "TA is just OK as a rookie receiver". I expect he will progress with experience.

The only play this season that I remember and can point to and say that was designed to get him the ball in the open field, he went 81 yards and a TD. I have been watching and waiting to see what he would do in the open field, and for the life of me, I can't remember another play this season. I could be wrong.

I just watched a Barry Sanders highlight reel to see how much he was like I remembered. TA really is very much like him. People forget that BS often went nowhere because the first guy to get a good grip on him took him down. The announcer was saying "and they said they just have to be patient and keep feeding him the ball... and right then BS found a hole and broke a huge run.

IMHO, that's what TA will be.

I don't have rewind but going forward I will tally his production based on if they get him the ball in the open by design or not. If they do, I will bet my last ROD dollar, he's going to explode.

"And Schotty just now figured that he can run a pick play to spring Tavon? lol. C'mon......." - Kind of, yes. He either just figured it out, or the players just figured out how to execute correctly, or he just decided to call it for what may have been the first time. Schotty has not been getting him the ball in the open field by whatever means he has available. That's a fact. He's barely been getting him the ball at all. As I remember it, he hit him 6 times in the flat or in tight coverage each of the first 3 games and when TA didn't light it up, he stopped.

It seems to me, they asked too much at first and they asked for the wrong things, then, instead of correcting their play calling, they gave up on him.

 

[RamzFanz]

By the way, if the play calling is similar to what we saw last game and ZS and TA continue to play at a high level, I may have to rethink the playoff implications. The Rams aren't out of it yet and TA really could be the key.

Yeah, it's only a glimmer of hope, but I really do believe TA could be huge now.

 

[jap]

By the way, if the play calling is similar to what we saw last game and ZS and TA continue to play at a high level, I may have to rethink the playoff implications. The Rams aren't out of it yet and TA really could be the key.

Yeah, it's only a glimmer of hope, but I really do believe TA could be huge now.

For whatever reason, the Colts insisted on matching up 1-on-1 with our receivers, even though they had no one who could stay with Tavon. After the last game, expect to see defensive coordinators move away from that strategy. Still, I am pretty certain part of Tavon's breakout is him figuring out what he could get away with at this level. The NFL players are faster, stronger, smarter, and better tacklers than the collegiate foes Tavon dominated. Give him space and aggressive blocking, and he can create masterpieces. Crowd him, and the defenders will provide other receivers with opportunities to make plays. With Zac pounding away at the DL wall, defenders can only commit so many bodies to pass coverage---otherwise Zac runs wild and wears out the DL.

 

[RamzFanz]

Well, how can we on one hand expect Tavon to have record rookie numbers, get Cook involved, establish the run, and get Givens lateral production from his rookie year?

Answer: Use designed plays to get him the ball in the open field.

Supporting evidence:

 

[-X-]

Answer: Use designed plays to get him the ball in the open field.

Supporting evidence:

Well, in context I was talking about how all of the receivers (Austin, Pettis, Cook, Givens) are supposed to all flourish in an offense that's oriented around the run, and with a backup QB no less. Someone has to be the odd man out, because no team has 4 1000 yard receivers and a 1000 yard running back. And when there is a receiver with what's perceived to be sub-par production, is that an indictment of the OC based on what I just said, or is it because there's more than one option?

That's a nice play up there, but do we expect defenses to just let that happen all the time?
If so, then Tavon could end up with 2000 yards receiving.

 

[RamzFanz]

Well, in context I was talking about how all of the receivers (Austin, Pettis, Cook, Givens) are supposed to all flourish in an offense that's oriented around the run, and with a backup QB no less. Someone has to be the odd man out, because no team has 4 1000 yard receivers and a 1000 yard running back. And when there is a receiver with what's perceived to be sub-par production, is that an indictment of the OC based on what I just said, or is it because there's more than one option?

That's a nice play up there, but do we expect defenses to just let that happen all the time?
If so, then Tavon could end up with 2000 yards receiving.

I expect if they are good at designing plays and they run 5-10 a game that TA will have huge plays consistently AND that he could have been all season.

If Pettis, Quick, Givens, and Cook can't do what TA can, I don't care if their targets suffer.

I know that you agree that DR is not an up the middle RB. I know you agree that Schotty was wrong to keep running him up the middle and almost never towards the edge. As far as I know, Schotty STILL doesn't get that DR can't run up the middle. When DR was inured, he was still running him up the middle. How is this different?

 

[CGI_Ram]

Answer: Use designed plays to get him the ball in the open field.

Supporting evidence:

Yeah... Tavon has been slow (like most rookie WR) to acclimate to the NFL... but I stick by the fact he's been used poorly. I'm not the only one who's said that, obviously.

I am a huge data guy, and your post X has wheels... But the results would be better if there was a design to create opportunities. Instead; Tavon's been asked to fit into the existing box.

Same could be said for Quick.

Rice cakes and water is an adventurous snack for Schotty.

 

[ausmurp]

All you really have to do is add that TD bomb he caught that was called back for holding. He'd have 34 for 409 yards, 5 TDs, and that is a great stat line for being this far in the season for a rookie WR.

That comes out to be just around 50 receptions, 600 yards, 7 TDs. And take into account that he is getting better and better, and that number increases.

 

[Thordaddy]

I have NEVER embraced the "Shotty doesn't know how to use TA" POV, in fact IMO I have from the beginning thought the converse was really the case, they have attempted to feature him TOO MUCH from the start and the kid pressed and he was suffering from, "M-essiah E-xpectation S-yndrome" ( my term fee for use will be charged) and that for a few games they backed away and let the kid relax ,quit putting excess expectation on himself and in tribute to the thread title get a chance to "refocus" take a breath and realize where he fit in so he COULD stand out.
Kid WAS a M.E.S.,NOW HE da M.A.N.

 

[-X-]

I expect if they are good at designing plays and they run 5-10 a game that TA will have huge plays consistently AND that he could have been all season.

If Pettis, Quick, Givens, and Cook can't do what TA can, I don't care if their targets suffer.

I know that you agree that DR is not an up the middle RB. I know you agree that Schotty was wrong to keep running him up the middle and almost never towards the edge. As far as I know, Schotty STILL doesn't get that DR can't run up the middle. When DR was inured, he was still running him up the middle. How is this different?

Sure, Richardson's not your prototypical A-gap runner, but plays are designed to create holes, no matter who the RB is. Richardson's the type of runner who needs a good gap, and he'll get a big gain - no matter where that comes from. Can't always call sweeps for him just because he has speed. That speed will work no matter where he gets his opportunities. And he gets his share of runs to the left and right too. See his long runs? See any difference relative to where they started?

Sorry, but I can never buy into the idea that a professional NFL offensive coordinator who's been to Championship games with Sanchez, has no idea how to use the personnel at his disposal while the fans .... do. That's suggesting that he crunches film with the other coaches and players, comes away with absolutely no idea of what he's doing, and Fisher/McGinnis/Boudreau/Sirmans just let him flounder out of spite. That sound rational to you?

 

[LesBaker]

Answer: Use designed plays to get him the ball in the open field.

Supporting evidence:

I agree with the design of the plays not being quite right. Seems to me there were some close calls and that's maybe led to some changes.

This TD pass.......has anyone seen that exact play run before? So maybe BS is switching gears a little and altering the structure of the play to give TA that extra couple of feet he needs to get loose. I can see BS saying "we need to change where these two guys line up on this play to give TA a little creased to run to". Also on this play TA was lined up outside then motioned inside. How often has he been in motion? Maybe that's part of the key to using him because of his ability to shift gears and juke guys. If he is a moving target as the ball is being snapped it makes it easier for him and harder for the defender.

Just my thoughts......

 

[Thordaddy]

Yup, there are no bad coaches in the NFL, just guys who get out coached by the best or outplayed by superior talent/experience.

 

[LesBaker]

Sure, Richardson's not your prototypical A-gap runner, but plays are designed to create holes, no matter who the RB is. Richardson's the type of runner who needs a good gap, and he'll get a big gain - no matter where that comes from. Can't always call sweeps for him just because he has speed. That speed will work no matter where he gets his opportunities. And he gets his share of runs to the left and right too. See his long runs? See any difference relative to where they started?

Sorry, but I can never buy into the idea that a professional NFL offensive coordinator who's been to Championship games with Sanchez, has no idea how to use the personnel at his disposal while the fans .... do. That's suggesting that he crunches film with the other coaches and players, comes away with absolutely no idea of what he's doing, and Fisher/McGinnis/Boudreau/Sirmans just let him flounder out of spite. That sound rational to you?

But X, BS as I just mentioned may be learning too. He has to adjust and possibly it's just taken time like I have been saying all year. They are tweaking and gelling, or they were when Bradford got hurt. Still they will get better with KC but of course it won't be the same as Bradford playing.

A guy who can win with Sanchez gets the benefit of the doubt IMO.

 

[LesBaker]

Yup, there are no bad coaches in the NFL, just guys who get out coached by the best or outplayed by superior talent/experience.

Or guys that get promoted to a level that is over their head.

 

[-X-]

But X, BS as I just mentioned may be learning too. He has to adjust and possibly it's just taken time like I have been saying all year. They are tweaking and gelling, or they were when Bradford got hurt. Still they will get better with KC but of course it won't be the same as Bradford playing.

A guy who can win with Sanchez gets the benefit of the doubt IMO.

Oh I have no doubt they're all learning. I said as much when the initial game plan (before the season began) was to run a sort of run-n-shoot or spread concept, and when that became ineffective, they went back to ground-n-pound. The original scheme (spread) was being executed nicely in practice from all of the accounts of people who were there, and nobody (nobody) said it was a bad idea at the time. Because execution in live action (against different defensive schemes) began to falter, the coaches (Schotty included) decided it was better to take a different approach. That's pragmatism. And because they're adaptive and pragmatic, people can't then say he has no vision or doesn't know what he's doing. (A) He had vision to start the season, (B) realized it wasn't working and changed it, and (C) made the new approach a successful one. That rings "I know what I'm doing" to me. Exactly the opposite of stubborn.

 

[Thordaddy]

Or guys that get promoted to a level that is over their head.

Half the teams lose every week Les,it's just alarming,we gotta put an end to that shyte:yousure:

 

[nighttrain]

So I decided to go through all of his games this year to see where he's at, where he COULD HAVE BEEN, and where he's projected to end up by the end of the season. Just to see if all of the criticism of him, and his OC was warranted prior to last week.

great work dude, and it would seem a lot of those that complain should take notice, Shott seems to be doing a decent job. Tavon in his rookie year is more than fine
train

 

[nighttrain]

I have NEVER embraced the "Shotty doesn't know how to use TA" POV, in fact IMO I have from the beginning thought the converse was really the case, they have attempted to feature him TOO MUCH from the start and the kid pressed and he was suffering from, "M-essiah E-xpectation S-yndrome" ( my term fee for use will be charged) and that for a few games they backed away and let the kid relax ,quit putting excess expectation on himself and in tribute to the thread title get a chance to "refocus" take a breath and realize where he fit in so he COULD stand out.
Kid WAS a M.E.S.,NOW HE da M.A.N.

Asking to much of a rook is always a gamble, this time it worked, but late in the season. Tavon is going to be well covered against the Bears, at least they'll give it their best shot. Kellen on, be some other guys open...
train

 

[Thordaddy]

Asking to much of a rook is always a gamble, this time it worked, but late in the season. Tavon is going to be well covered against the Bears, at least they'll give it their best shot. Kellen on, be some other guys open...
train

With Briggs and Tillman out IMO our o-line rested and well ,I think the Bear HAVE to stop Stacy first or we're gonna run all the fugg over them,I see TA getting open a lot, if he doesn't Givens or Quick or Cook is gonna burn them ,I REALLY like our chances in that game,I hope the fans turn out and give our guys the home field advantage they deserve.

 

[RamFan503]

Sure, Richardson's not your prototypical A-gap runner, but plays are designed to create holes, no matter who the RB is. Richardson's the type of runner who needs a good gap, and he'll get a big gain - no matter where that comes from. Can't always call sweeps for him just because he has speed. That speed will work no matter where he gets his opportunities. And he gets his share of runs to the left and right too. See his long runs? See any difference relative to where they started?

Sorry, but I can never buy into the idea that a professional NFL offensive coordinator who's been to Championship games with Sanchez, has no idea how to use the personnel at his disposal while the fans .... do. That's suggesting that he crunches film with the other coaches and players, comes away with absolutely no idea of what he's doing, and Fisher/McGinnis/Boudreau/Sirmans just let him flounder out of spite. That sound rational to you?

Yeah - it's that 27 times for 2.3. Thanks for backing me up. An extra yard per play is pretty huge. And 10 yards does not a long run make. If he were to truly be bustin for major yardage, then ok. But he very occasionally squirts through a gaping hole in the middle while he gets more consistent yardage outside. I'm not saying you have to run him outside all the time but when the majority of his runs are up the middle to no effect?