1. To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Take a sample Wonderlic test/Manziel aces it

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by Prime Time, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. ramsrams New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    25
    When you're smart enough to understand you're stupid, that's progress.
     
    #101
    Thordaddy, Angry Ram and RamFan503 like this.
  2. brokeu91 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,666
    Likes Received:
    931
    I don't want to totally get into it, but it's my awesomeness. My awesomeness was not developed, it was just innate. I wish everyone was as humble, modest, and awesome as I am.

    I actually ended up going to the school for the gifted because my parents couldn't afford to send me to parochial school (which is where I was previously going). They didn't want me going to the regular public school system, because it was terrible, so I had to apply for it. It was based on standardized test scores and grades. There were many people in that school who were much smarter than me-for instance two people who I graduated with are physics professors-one at MIT and the other Univ of Michigan.
     
    #102
  3. Stranger How big is infinity?

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    5,261
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    thanks for posting. just awesome material
     
    #103
  4. Stranger How big is infinity?

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    5,261
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    i would argue that we all have such innate ability, it's just that some abilities are more recognized by human created institutions, like MIT.
     
    #104
  5. bluecoconuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    6,778
    Likes Received:
    714
    In some cases other human observation is required. Some things, like science, has no "facts" because science never closes the door on anything. New evidence can always come up and change how we view things. However when certain observations are consistently repeated many times by many different scientists, it's labeled a "theory" and widely accepted as truth or essentially fact. A theory in the non scientific world is just an idea, in science it is pretty much fact. It would take one hell of a piece of evidence to prove otherwise. Science requires other human observation to confirm something.

    Some things are just universal fact regardless of what anyone says though. Take my other example, shooting. If I hit a bullseye at a grand, and you dont, there's no leeway there. You either you did or didn't. If we shoot another 5 times and I continue to hit on target, and you continue to miss, then I correctly adjusted for wind, distance, pressure, etc as well as displayed proper long distance shooting fundamentals and you did not. You can't argue that you did everything correct because you missed the target. The proof is right there, and that's simply fact. To say otherwise would be wrong.

    As for math being inconsistent, I wouldn't argue that. It can be weird, especially given the crazy advanced things, however even if you can't prove something, if you continue to plug in the same numbers to the same formula you will get the same result. If you want to argue if the result is correct then that's one thing, but the results should be constant.

    Math is a man made tool to understand the laws of the universe. We don't really invent math, we just discover and interpret it.
     
    #105
  6. Mojo Ram On double secret probation

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,016
    Likes Received:
    3,796
    Logical Spock has something to say about this thread
     
    #106
    RamFan503 likes this.
  7. jap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    712
    As Spock himself would say, "Fascinating!"
     
    #107
  8. SteveBrown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    194
    They understand how to "read" people---very good at it. They have a good level of confidence despite academic problems. They understand respect on some level better. They are more aware of life in general...but I don't know if they apply those blessings in to productivity. They don't have parents who are helping them in that way--my opinion
     
    #108
  9. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    2,774
    I don't doubt any of what you said. I am just pointing out a false statement. You can't take something that is made up and use it to prove a point. That's all.

    Kids in a lot of areas are at a disadvantage. My cousin has taught in several cities and countries. He says the worst parental involvement he's witnessed was in Hawaii. Not exactly what I'm guessing many of us think of when we think disadvantaged youth.
     
    #109
  10. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    2,774
    That is how the "proof" you quoted has been used. Not my angle - especially in that the "proof" is made up. You are right in that I took it toward the racist end rather than just economically disadvantaged. I don't inherently believe the test itself IS racist in nature. But that hasn't stopped people from using the saucer/coaster example to prove otherwise. That's all I'm saying. If someone uses a made up factoid to prove anything, their argument is flawed and their position should be called into question.
     
    #110
  11. jap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    712
    What makes you so sure it was made up? I am 55 years old now. I first heard this when I was still in high school, which was at least 38 years ago. I interned at the Educational Testing Service and was present when a similar scenario was presented to some of the very people who create the national USA tests such as the SAT, GRE, etc. I saw their reactions and heard their responses when they admitted they had not considered some of the differences between the lifestyles of the economic poor vs the middle-high economic groups.

    There are differences between these groups that could impact acquisition of knowledge.

    However, that raises another issue. Many of these so-called IQ tests do not test IQ at all---they test knowledge. I scored the highest score on one of these nationally standardized tests in my high school my sophomore year. I was told my score indicated I was on the level of a college sophomore in his second semester of a standard trimester schedule. As a senior I was again told I scored the highest score in my class, although I wasn't told my collegiate equivalent ranking then. At no time was I under any illusion that I was necessarily brighter than everyone else in my class. I scored higher because I read more books in quantity and diversity than just about all my classmates---hardcore scifi, detective (think Ellery Queen, the Saint, Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, etc.), history, Westerns, adventure, mystery, even romance. Hardcore scifi tales by the grandmasters like Isaac Asimov, Sir Arthur C. Scott, Ray Bradbury, and Robert Heinlein were based on existing scientific/engineering knowledge and often involved puzzles that highlighted scientific comprehension. Even though I was raised in the West Indies and didn't do much early traveling, I was extremely familiar with time zones because an Ellery Queen story required that understanding to solve the mystery. My Western reading of true historians like Zane Gray and Louis L'Amour highlighted the fact that the so-called American Indians spoke openly of people who preceded them in the Americas.I discovered the Greco-Roman pantheon of Gods by following the chain of references to them in encyclopedias. In short, I exposed myself to reading material and expanded my knowledge and tested my intellect.

    As a computer science grad student, I focused on artificial intelligence. AI has long moved from the idea using computers to employ pure logical reasoning to augmenting reason by filling them with "relevant" world knowledge to provide them with the illusion of intelligence. This was my true edge over my classmates---all my reading provided me with more world knowledge than they had and allowed me to outscore them, nothing more.

    The lack of "relevant" world knowledge is one of the major factors that often separates the so-called economically disadvantaged from the more economically privileged. The saucer/coaster scenario is only a small example of that. Of course, what is "relevant," depends on who assigns themselves as judge of who is intelligent.
     
    #111
  12. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    2,774
    It was from a scene in a 70's sitcom so yeah... timing sounds about right.

    The rest of what you are saying makes perfect sense. Without going into much more detail, as I said before (I think), the value of a test depends on who is administering it. Questions are designed with an end in mind - or at least should be. What is the goal from the test? What does the creator consider the right answer or what kind of answers would fall into the "right" category? Tests are almost always subjective and in reality most often should be so. If you are testing someone it is because you want to know something about them. That something should determine the test.
     
    #112
  13. kurtfaulk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,816
    Likes Received:
    505
    that was way too deep. i think i will stick with basic mathematics which serve me so well.

    .
     
    #113
    Stranger likes this.
  14. kurtfaulk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,816
    Likes Received:
    505
    1 - the statement is false. it's a great statement for philosophical purposes but in reality it is false. nobody can always lie.

    2- yes, too many variables involved. but i never said maths could explain everything.

    3 - yes, the answer is infinity. why is it unsatisfactory? it will go on forever and it still won't make it to 5. i guess the more pertinent question is where in life will you divide a number by zero? what purpose does it achieve? infinity is just a succinct way of saying it can't be done.

    4 - you got a problem with infinity?

    .
     
    #114
  15. Ramrasta The Knight Owl

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    904
    This has turned into a very interesting thread.

    I think the appropriate solution here though is that we can all agree to disagree and Go Rams!
     
    #115
    Stranger likes this.
  16. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    2,774
    That has 0/5 chance of happening.
     
    #116
  17. Stranger How big is infinity?

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    5,261
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    "It not nature that gives us answers, it is the questions that we ask of nature, and the experiments we have, and the means of observation that we have, that gives us the answer."
    ~ Klaus Krippendorff

     
    #117
  18. Ramrasta The Knight Owl

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    904
    If you want the answers, you ask the questions. If you want the truth, you question the answers.
     
    #118
  19. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    2,774
    If you want to be in politics, you make up the questions AND the answers.
     
    #119
    Ramrasta likes this.
  20. moklerman Warner-phile

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    566
    I was going to address a few of the points being presented but I choose to not get involved and thus, consider myself intelligent.
     
    #120
    RamFan503 likes this.