Someone sell me on Jeff Fisher

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Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
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Rich
I can't sell someone on a coach they want to sell me isn't the answer. I expected that to be the way this would turn out so I waited for a few posts to post this.
I think Fisher is a very good coach who compiled an above average record with a sub average organization, IMO he will be better over time with an above average organization behind him.

For a 5 year period that coincided with our GSOT years he was 56 -26 and we were..................56-26 regular season

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_St._Louis_Rams_seasons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Fisher


throwing out his record where he was named coach late in the year he was compiling 8-8's regularly
I guess the question isn't whether he CAN build a pretty damned good team ,it 's whether he can sustain it through parity with a better org behind him.
 

Prime Time

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Let's just replace our OC before next season.

That seems to be the general consensus here at ROD but I would be surprised if it happened. Schottenheimer fits Fisher's philosophy - run the ball and minimize turnovers.

That hasn't worked out the way he planned but once you throw in a shaky O-line and the injuries to Bradford J. Long, and Britt, the OC is pretty much absolved from blame.

Fisher is never going to hire a pass-happy, innovative OC in the Martz mold, so I'm guessing we're stuck with him for the duration.
 

snackdaddy

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That seems to be the general consensus here at ROD but I would be surprised if it happened. Schottenheimer fits Fisher's philosophy - run the ball and minimize turnovers.

That hasn't worked out the way he planned but once you throw in a shaky O-line and the injuries to Bradford J. Long, and Britt, the OC is pretty much absolved from blame.

Fisher is never going to hire a pass-happy, innovative OC in the Martz mold, so I'm guessing we're stuck with him for the duration.
This is true. Schotty's going nowhere. I'm still on the fence with him. I know there were plays to be made with his calls but Davis wasn't capable of making those plays.

But then there's this Tavon Austin thing. An amazing talent and he can't figure out a way to use him.
 

Alan

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Rams and Gators mimicking my wife:
You don't count :fighting:.
HAH!
You know that part in the expression where you say "not counting the blah, blah, blah?" Well I'm the blah, blah, blah. :mad:
 

moklerman

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You can say it's all because we don't have a QB but where are we supposed to get one now? They aren't going to be high enough to get one that could start next year(unless they hit gold like SEA did with a later pick). If they keep Bradford, I'd be beyond shocked if he makes it a full season. Looking past his durability, he still had his issues like completely not seeing wide open receivers, balls batted at the line, refusal to use pump fakes, pocket presence, mobility, etc. So the way I see it, unless they pull a rabbit out of their hat in the draft, the QB situation is still going to haunt this team for more than just the present and near future.
I think it's important for everyone who points to the Seattle situation to remember that Seattle didn't have some genius plan or precognition. They'd gone out and overpaid for a couple of FA QB's and lucked into Wilson.

You can't just intentionally build a team that way. Didn't they totally blow it on Flynn, Whitehurst and Jackson and just get lucky with Wilson? And I'm not even sure they've actually got a long term answer with him. Once Lynch is gone, I'm very curious to see just how magical Wilson remains. It's already happening with Kaepernick. It wasn't that long ago that people were also pointing to SF as how the Rams should do things but Colin is more likely what a team is going to get in a 3rd round QB.
 

LesBaker

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It appears that Fisher has built the team everywhere, aside from QB, from scratch. His biggest misfire so far has been Pead. Yeah, it pisses me off to see Indy and the Redskins-for a year-to have immediate success. However, compare their divisions vs the Rams. Additionally, Fisher inherited a team that had the worst 5 year stretch in NFL history. He doesn't appear to be a micromanager, which is why he's been in the NFL for so long. Stability is what the Rams need right now.

Biggest rebuild in the history of the sport. Maybe any sport. I can't think of a team that had so little success for so long in basketball or baseball either.
 

LesBaker

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I think it's important for everyone who points to the Seattle situation to remember that Seattle didn't have some genius plan or precognition. They'd gone out and overpaid for a couple of FA QB's and lucked into Wilson.

You can't just intentionally build a team that way. Didn't they totally blow it on Flynn, Whitehurst and Jackson and just get lucky with Wilson? And I'm not even sure they've actually got a long term answer with him. Once Lynch is gone, I'm very curious to see just how magical Wilson remains. It's already happening with Kaepernick. It wasn't that long ago that people were also pointing to SF as how the Rams should do things but Colin is more likely what a team is going to get in a 3rd round QB.

Yup they got a little lucky.........and I agree 100% if you took Lynch away Wilson wouldn't look nearly as good as he does.
 

Alan

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Rams and Gators underestimating the powers of Juju and overestimating his life expectancy:
No not really.
giphy.gif
 

Stranger

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That seems to be the general consensus here at ROD but I would be surprised if it happened. Schottenheimer fits Fisher's philosophy - run the ball and minimize turnovers.

That hasn't worked out the way he planned but once you throw in a shaky O-line and the injuries to Bradford J. Long, and Britt, the OC is pretty much absolved from blame.

Fisher is never going to hire a pass-happy, innovative OC in the Martz mold, so I'm guessing we're stuck with him for the duration.
I think I'd be satisfied with an OC who can fit within Fisher's design, but also be innovative to get Tavon in space. For me, it's Shotty's inability to leverage Tavon that's a deal killer.
 

Rams43

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I believe that questioning Fisher is a legitimate point of view.

Yes, he took over an historically bad team.

But he's also had 3 years of autonomy on football matters.
Got to pick any asst coaches he wanted with no limits on salaries he could offer.
Had bonus premium picks from the RG3 trade.
Final say on FA acquisitions.
Final say on draft picks.
Final say on game plan strategy every week.
Has the security of a supportive owner and a 5 year $35 million contract.

These are all things that most HC's would kill for.

He got us to respectability his first season, but we've regressed slightly in the following 2 years. Not the trajectory we all wanted and expected.

Here's his career record in a nutshell. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FishJe0.htm

Career .526 winning record.
Only 6 winning seasons in 20 years.
Last 5 seasons are losing records.

He's gonna get his teams to respectability, but probably not to the promised land. At least that's what the evidence is telling us.

Last thing. We are losing winnable games, fellas. That's not something that consistently happens with teams that have top notch coaching. I don't know how long we're gonna have to tolerate these disappointments.

Twenty years is enough evidence for me. I'm willing to take a shot at finding the next Pettine, Kelly, Arians, or...
 

Lesson

Oh, really?
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Meh. Wells was already on the decline. Long still had that checkered injury history. I could be wrong, but I'd bet that they best O-Lines in the NFL are built from within except maybe 1 piece or so. That's how DAL did it once they finally wizened up. I bet if you looked thru the top lines last year, most probably boast mult. draft picks by the team.

Could have had Cordy Glenn. Could have had Larry Warford.


They spent a large amount of $ to sign both Wells and Long, though. I think they sought to build the OL in a way that most people wouldn't think is ideal(via FA).

But considering Barksdale, Saffold, and GRob have been fine, I'd say they have done a decent job for the most part in assembling and maintaining a respectable OL.

The only thing Fisher hasn't done is properly address QB. I think Bradford can be a great QB, but there's no reason for the team to not try to develop one for the future or fill in for Bradford after last season.
 

rhinobean

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Fish does do things that puzzle me. I think Pead hasn't had the opportunity to fail, just got in the dog house so he's not a bust! Davis had his chance when I thought Hill was the best choice at QB! Different! Not sure it's better!
 

Lesson

Oh, really?
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Also, for baseball comparisons, I'm thinking of the Detroit Tigers currently.

They were awful before Dave Dumbrowski became the GM, a guy who won the WS as the Marlins GM in 1997. His first full season as GM, they go on to have, I think, the 2nd worst season in MLB history. His 4th year, they make the WS, and have been a consistent AL Central division contender, if not pennant contender, since.
 

Alan

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LesBaker including too much:
I just peeked and the Bucs first 5 years they had 22 wins.
They lost their first 26 games and then there's this famous quote:
Following a Tampa Bay Buccaneers loss in their early seasons, McKay was asked what he thought of his team's "execution." He replied, "I'm all for it." :LOL:
 

moklerman

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Biggest rebuild in the history of the sport. Maybe any sport. I can't think of a team that had so little success for so long in basketball or baseball either.
Tampa Bay's expansion years were pretty rough. From '76 to '86, their first 10 years, they had an 0-14 season and five 2-win seasons. 48-117(.290) during that span.
 

V3

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I think it's important for everyone who points to the Seattle situation to remember that Seattle didn't have some genius plan or precognition. They'd gone out and overpaid for a couple of FA QB's and lucked into Wilson.

You can't just intentionally build a team that way. Didn't they totally blow it on Flynn, Whitehurst and Jackson and just get lucky with Wilson? And I'm not even sure they've actually got a long term answer with him. Once Lynch is gone, I'm very curious to see just how magical Wilson remains. It's already happening with Kaepernick. It wasn't that long ago that people were also pointing to SF as how the Rams should do things but Colin is more likely what a team is going to get in a 3rd round QB.
That's kind of my point. They were EXTREMELY lucky. That kind of luck on a QB taken later doesn't happen very often which is why I don't expect it to happen to us. If people are expecting us to find our franchise QB in the draft outside of the top few picks, they'd better break out their luckiest charm and pray to baby Jesus because the odds are very low of it happening. This is why I've been so torn about our wins this year. I want the Rams to win but know that with each one, it becomes harder to find a solution at QB. I'm sure I'll get blasted for that but I that's just how I see it.
 

Pancake

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He might have taken over one of the worst teams ever but he also had all the tools to rebuild it with all those high draft picks. After all of that added talent and time, where are they in the win column? The roster might look better on paper and the play might look better on the field but really the point of it all isn't to look a little better on the field.