Someone sell me on Jeff Fisher

[Rams and Gators]

We currently sit here with a 4-7 record, it looks very likely that we won't have a winning season 3 years in, we're yet to have a top 10 D, or a top 20 O, we still can't defend the pass, 26th defensive passer rating, on target for the worst completion percentage ever, beating the record set by us last season, and yet no one seems in the least bit disgruntled with him, why?

 

[jrry32]

2007 to 2011

There are worse things than winning 7 games a year. And I think most people here are cognizant of the fact that when he came in, Fisher had to almost completely rebuild the team and has done so mainly with young players.

And then, of course, there's the elephant in the room which is the QB situation. Some will say that he made a mistake in trusting Bradford...but the real question is...what would have been the solution? Who should we have drafted in 2012 or 2013 or 2014? And I'm not talking hindsight(Russell Wilson).

I'm not going to sell you on him. We both know that. You have every right to want more but some of us aren't ready to give up on him yet either.

As far as the defense goes, three years and three different schemes. Fisher takes the blame on Walton but the defense needed time to break in Williams's complex scheme. I'm not concerned about them moving forward.

The real question is...why should we be disgruntled? Can anyone look at that 2011 team, consider the circumstances(losing Bradford for 25 games), and say that this team should be in playoff contention? I think we all knew that it was going to take time to rebuild. This was the first year we had a playoff caliber team. Unfortunately, Bradford getting injured killed any shot we had at the playoffs.

Is Fisher the best coach in the game? No. But he's a competent head coach...and we haven't had one of those since Dick Vermeil. He hasn't earned a pink slip yet. Now, next year, he'll be on a short leash for me and many others. No more excuses with the QB injuries. That's easily foreseeable for them. They need to plan for that. It's time the team starts winning. I think everyone here is entitled to expect a 10 win season.

But this year, we'll probably win 7 games again. With our QB play and the 3rd toughest schedule in the NFL, I'd say 7 wins has met my expectations.

 

[Rams and Gators]

2007 to 2011

There are worse things than winning 7 games a year. And I think most people here are cognizant of the fact that when he came in, Fisher had to almost completely rebuild the team and has done so mainly with young players.

And then, of course, there's the elephant in the room which is the QB situation. Some will say that he made a mistake in trusting Bradford...but the real question is...what would have been the solution? Who should we have drafted in 2012 or 2013 or 2014? And I'm not talking hindsight(Russell Wilson).

I'm not going to sell you on him. We both know that. You have every right to want more but some of us aren't ready to give up on him yet either.

As far as the defense goes, three years and three different schemes. Fisher takes the blame on Walton but the defense needed time to break in Williams's complex scheme. I'm not concerned about them moving forward.

The real question is...why should we be disgruntled? Can anyone look at that 2011 team, consider the circumstances(losing Bradford for 25 games), and say that this team should be in playoff contention? I think we all knew that it was going to take time to rebuild. This was the first year we had a playoff caliber team. Unfortunately, Bradford getting injured killed any shot we had at the playoffs.

Is Fisher the best coach in the game? No. But he's a competent head coach...and we haven't had one of those since Dick Vermeil. He hasn't earned a pink slip yet. Now, next year, he'll be on a short leash for me and many others. No more excuses with the QB injuries. That's easily foreseeable for them. They need to plan for that. It's time the team starts winning. I think everyone here is entitled to expect a 10 win season.

But this year, we'll probably win 7 games again. With our QB play and the 3rd toughest schedule in the NFL, I'd say 7 wins has met my expectations.

Yes the roster sucked, but how many coaches get 14 top 100 picks to attempt to re-build a roster? They've made some terrible miscalculations in drafting, the Pead trade down and Austin trade up stand out as picks that most teams would get slaughtered for, but because we had more picks (thank you RGIII) they get brushed aside, they haven't done a good enough job in that regard for me.

Can I really not say Russell Wilson as a QB solution? Even though I was about as high on him as they come in the build up to the draft, and Bradford was coming of an injury plagued season where he missed 6 games and was awful in the 10 games he did play, so taking out an insurance policy would have been a very logical thing to do. As much as you think he sucks, I still think Austin Davis could have been successful (or at least average) here, it's not just a coincidence to me that Davis' play dropped off a cliff in the Chiefs game when our LT, OC and RG all got injured in the same game, leaving a shambles of an OL which Fisher had spent big money on.

I fully agree on the D, 3 schemes in 3 years has taken it's toll, it just a shame that there wasn't a competent defensive co-ordinator available at any point during the 2012 or 2013 off seasons. It is interesting that the same problem (lack of ability to cover receivers) continues no matter who is defensive co-ordinator, even over the last 6 weeks when our D has arguably been "good" we've failed to hold a single QB to under 60% completion. And after Sunday where Williams stood watching San Diego complete short pass after short pass after short pass for pretty much the second half of the 2nd Q to the end of the game I'm not sure he's the right coach either.

I agree Fisher is OK as a coach, in the 10-20 range of current HCs, but unfortunately our schedule isn't going to be any easier next year, aren't we paired up with the NFC North (Rodgers is going to kill us the way we've played pass D under Fisher) and the AFC North, and we still have the NFC West where Fisher is the 4th best HC in the division, unless all the rumours involving Jim Harbaugh have some validity. And outside of McNair Fisher's teams have won in spite of his QB's play, is there anyone on this current staff who has any idea how to nurture a young QB? I didn't see it with Davis, he was going to sink or swim on his own ability not because of anything this staff did to help him.

 

[jrry32]

Yes the roster sucked, but how many coaches get 14 top 100 picks to attempt to re-build a roster? They've made some terrible miscalculations in drafting, the Pead trade down and Austin trade up stand out as picks that most teams would get slaughtered for, but because we had more picks (thank you RGIII) they get brushed aside, they haven't done a good enough job in that regard for me.

Pead was a second round pick. One second round pick in 3 years is their terrible miscalculation. Find me the GM who has never missed on a first or second round pick. They don't get flak for that because nobody expects perfection when drafting. It is completely unrealistic to say they haven't done a good enough job because they missed on Pead.

As far as Austin is concerned, I'll have that discussion with you at the end of the 2015 season. Until then, the three year rule is in play.(but the claim that they don't get flak for the Austin pick is simply not true)

Can I really not say Russell Wilson as a QB solution? Even though I was about as high on him as they come in the build up to the draft, and Bradford was coming of an injury plagued season where he missed 6 games and was awful in the 10 games he did play, so taking out an insurance policy would have been a very logical thing to do. As much as you think he sucks, I still think Austin Davis could have been successful (or at least average) here, it's not just a coincidence to me that Davis' play dropped off a cliff in the Chiefs game when our LT, OC and RG all got injured in the same game, leaving a shambles of an OL which Fisher had spent big money on.

Unless you sat there and pounded the table for Wilson, no, you can't.

I'm not going to get into the Austin Davis debate again. If you watch the Coach's film on his last three starts, there will be no argument whatsoever that he could have been successful here.(well, at least not in my mind)

I fully agree on the D, 3 schemes in 3 years has taken it's toll, it just a shame that there wasn't a competent defensive co-ordinator available at any point during the 2012 or 2013 off seasons. It is interesting that the same problem (lack of ability to cover receivers) continues no matter who is defensive co-ordinator, even over the last 6 weeks when our D has arguably been "good" we've failed to hold a single QB to under 60% completion. And after Sunday where Williams stood watching San Diego complete short pass after short pass after short pass for pretty much the second half of the 2nd Q to the end of the game I'm not sure he's the right coach either.

Frankly, I don't care about completion% if we're stopping them. And as pissed off as I was during the San Diego game, I think you're going to be unhappy with most any coordinator if that's your reasoning. There will always be games where your defense doesn't shut the opponent down. We did hold San Diego's offense to 20 points even with the lack of needed adjustments.

I agree Fisher is OK as a coach, in the 10-20 range of current HCs, but unfortunately our schedule isn't going to be any easier next year, aren't we paired up with the NFC North (Rodgers is going to kill us the way we've played pass D under Fisher) and the AFC North, and we still have the NFC West where Fisher is the 4th best HC in the division, unless all the rumours involving Jim Harbaugh have some validity. And outside of McNair Fisher's teams have won in spite of his QB's play, is there anyone on this current staff who has any idea how to nurture a young QB? I didn't see it with Davis, he was going to sink or swim on his own ability not because of anything this staff did to help him.

I think that's a poor stance to take. I've seen significant improvement in Bradford's game since this coaching staff took over.

Simply put, I don't share your perspective on these issues. I think you're being a bit unrealistic.

 

[mr.stlouis]

What do all the good teams have in common? They have QB's. We have had scrubs for QB's playing the mostv important position all year.

The supporting cast for the QB is actually really strong if you add a stud C and OG.

PHI, DAL, ARZ, maybe SF and SD would all have been W's had we had a legit. None the less, Fisher managed to beat DEN, SEA, and SF with QB's that nobody would touch for starters unless they had to. That's pretty dam amazing being those three teams all have top 5.

So you say you need convincing? Sheesh man, you just ain't reading between the lines.

We are legit contenders right now with a starting calibre QB. Since we don't have a healthy starter, we're 4-and freaking-7 . :fighting::coach:

 

[drasconis]

Not going to try to sell you on him. He has been around long enough that it is known what he is: 53% win rate. The winning years and losing years will balance out. You can expect 2 winning years in a row to be followed by 3 down ones. The good news is in theory we are on track to hit his 2 winning years now and then drop back down again.

He will never have an exciting O, he is going to try to build a dominant D. I never expect him to have better than top 15-20 O (even if the potential is there). His Goal is a top 10 D. To that end even if Shotty gets canned expect someone almost as borring to replace him. (note that the head coach in book gets the blame for the turnover in corrodinators - he choose them...no pass for him on 3 in 3 years situation).

His teams will always (Even in down years) be good enough to beat some of the best teams - and will also (even in their best years) lose some real headscratchers.

He is what he is - hopefully it is enough. I think he will get us to the playoffs, but won't keep us there (like the packers/pats/etc.), he will be dangerous there but needs some luck to get to a SB. Will also have some down years following it. Biggest worry is that he actually lets the game pass him by as he sticks with "friends" or "a style".

 

[Rams and Gators]

What do all the good teams have in common? They have QB's. We have had scrubs for QB's playing the mostv important position all year.

The supporting cast for the QB is actually really strong if you add a stud C and OG.

PHI, DAL, ARZ, maybe SF and SD would all have been W's had we had a legit. None the less, Fisher managed to beat DEN, SEA, and SF with QB's that nobody would touch for starters unless they had to. That's pretty dam amazing being those three teams all have top 5.

So you say you need convincing? Sheesh man, you just ain't reading between the lines.

We are legit contenders right now with a starting calibre QB. Since we don't have a healthy starter, we're 4-and freaking-7 . :fighting::coach:

LOL at Dallas and Philly being a win with a legit QB. They would have been wins 50% of the time if we had Peyton Manning as QB. Hekker's punt still gets blocked and returned for a TD regardless of QB, Jake Long still gets our QB killed regardless of who's in there.

I'll give you SF, all we did in that game is make CrapOnDick look like the greatest QB ever, but realistically we should have been able to score 25 points against a team who've allowed that much or more in 13 of their 60 games with Harbaugh as HC.

Arizona, who knows what happens if we don't give up the 3rd longest pass play of Drew Stanton's career, maybe we still lose, but that was a sole destroying play.

And San Diego would have been a win if we had adjusted on D sooner, or maybe run the ball on 2nd and 4.

Realistically with Bradford at QB, we win one, maybe 2 of those, but there was much more wrong in those games than just not having a QB.

 

[Legatron4]

It's definitely been a rough 3 years. But you saw what our D is capable of vs Denver and SF. I agree with dras. Our team will always be right in the middle of the pack in terms of rankings on offense and Defense. I'm not sure we can win a superbowl with Fisher. Which is what we expected when he came in. But if I don't see at least 11 wins next season I will say bring on the next guy.

 

[mr.stlouis]

LOL at Dallas and Philly being a win with a legit QB. They would have been wins 50% of the time if we had Peyton Manning as QB. Hekker's punt still gets blocked and returned for a TD regardless of QB, Jake Long still gets our QB killed regardless of who's in there.

I'll give you SF, all we did in that game is make CrapOnDick look like the greatest QB ever, but realistically we should have been able to score 25 points against a team who've allowed that much or more in 13 of their 60 games with Harbaugh as HC.

Arizona, who knows what happens if we don't give up the 3rd longest pass play of Drew Stanton's career, maybe we still lose, but that was a sole destroying play.

And San Diego would have been a win if we had adjusted on D sooner, or maybe run the ball on 2nd and 4.

Realistically with Bradford at QB, we win one, maybe 2 of those, but there was much more wrong in those games than just not having a QB.

LOL at your LOL

Need I remind you that Davis threw a pick 6 and a game winning pick, for Dallas, in the second half of the DAL game. And holy crap in the ARZ game.

In the Philly game, Davis actually did enough. I'll give u that. Pettis dropped two but I still say Sam wins that one. I will add Davis played lights out against SEA . I don't know where that QB went but he was pretty darn good. Maybe we should keep him as a third string option...

 

[Rams and Gators]

LOL at your LOL

Need I remind you that Davis threw a pick 6 and a game winning pick in the second half of the DAL game. And holy crap in the ARZ game.

In the Philly game, Davis actually did enough. Pettis dropped two but I still say Sam wins that one. I will add Davis played lights out against SEA . I don't know where that QB went but he was pretty darn good. Maybe we should keep him as a third string option...

Need I remind you that Davis threw a game winning TD pass to Cook, the fact that Cook dropped it reinforces my point that it's not just the QB, if Cook makes a really easy catch Davis probably isn't even attempting a pass at the point of his 2nd TD, and Davis walks out of the game with 4 TDs and 1 INT, something Bradford has never done. We win by 3.

 

[moklerman]

but that was a sole destroying play.

I know I wanted to stick my foot through the tv...you didn't actually do it, did you?

 

[leoram]

I prefer not to sell anyone on this team or staff. My eyes tell me the team has better talent now than it did three years ago. The Rams get outcoached a handful of times each season but outcoach others nearly as often. The offensive line, though it's been addressed, has yet to become a strength of the team. I've said from the jump that Williams will gamble and win some games but just as likely gamble to lose some. Schottenheimer will play too conservatively to allow us to dominate an opponent. Both approaches are approved by Coach Fisher.

Jeff Fisher is a reasonable man and respected by both the team and the league. I'd sure hate to start over. With an improved OLine, LB depth, and a QB solution, next year could be special.

 

[moklerman]

Need I remind you that Davis threw a game winning TD pass to Cook, the fact that Cook dropped it reinforces my point that it's not just the QB, if Cook makes a really easy catch Davis probably isn't even attempting a pass at the point of his 2nd TD, and Davis walks out of the game with 4 TDs and 1 INT, something Bradford has never done. We win by 3.

Okay, but to be fair then, don't you have to look at the TD's that were dropped for Bradford? He's hypothetically had 4 TD games too that didn't happen because of his receivers. Or TD's/wins called back because of penalties(Amendola).

No, Bradford's playing ability isn't much of an issue. His ability to play each Sunday is.

 

[Rams and Gators]

I know I wanted to stick my foot through the tv...you didn't actually do it, did you?

I just assumed that was why Brown was able to blow past our DBs so easily?

 

[Rams and Gators]

Okay, but to be fair then, don't you have to look at the TD's that were dropped for Bradford? He's hypothetically had 4 TD games too that didn't happen because of his receivers. Or TD's/wins called back because of penalties(Amendola).

No, Bradford's playing ability isn't much of an issue. His ability to play each Sunday is.

How many TDs where a receiver catches the pass 99% of the time has Sam had taken away? Quick's against Carolina stands out, but that would have been a 2 TD 1 INT performance, there's been drive killing drops which could have ended in a TD, but I can't remember many which that blatantly took away a TD and changed a game. Any way my point wasn't that Sam can or can't do it, my point was that 4 TDs and 1 INT is an excellent performance, you can't put a loss on a QB who is an awful drop away from doing that. Or maybe you can.

 

[Alan]

Rams and Gators forgetting about me :
yet no one seems in the least bit disgruntled with him?

I wouldn't say no one.

 

[Athos]

I don't really know.........

I do remember them saying no more picking at #2. Scarily enough, that could still happen, no matter how unlikely given the teams that suck worse than we do.

I mean shit........look at what the Browns at doing? Have them captured lightning in a bottle or have they rebounded?

Will say though, seeing other bottom dwellers begin to do well sooner (and having to rebuild just as much as us if not more) is a bit disappointing/irritating.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Need I remind you that Davis threw a game winning TD pass to Cook, the fact that Cook dropped it reinforces my point that it's not just the QB, if Cook makes a really easy catch Davis probably isn't even attempting a pass at the point of his 2nd TD, and Davis walks out of the game with 4 TDs and 1 INT, something Bradford has never done. We win by 3.

It is true, Cook had one of his moments.

But has Bradford ever thrown to a better trio of pass catchers that Quick, Britt, and Cook? He woulda done more.

And I'm ready to be done with Davis. I don't think he has the ingredients. His short comings outweigh his strengths.

 

[Athos]

For the record though...

Snead and Fisher waited WAAAAAAAAYYYYY too long to actually address the O-Line. That's their biggest fault and it's a big one. They spent on re-tread O-Lineman who couldn't/can't stay healthy or weren't that good and went in other directions in the draft until Robinson.

You could legit say they failed to adequately protect the biggest investment and most integral player on the team, hell, the player they said drew them to this job. I get their need to address the D early and am glad for some of the picks.....but quite frankly, we could have a far better O-Line, built through the draft, playing better because of cohesiveness (i.e. we drafted them) and we didn't.

That's a big black eye on this regime.

 

[Robocop]

but he's got an amazing mustache