So how much did jerra have to pay the officials?

[Boffo97]

The Cowboys had only won 1 playoff game in 20 years prior to Sunday, if Jones had any of the power to which you speak, where has it been all these years?
Me? I'm comfortable in the belief that the referee system is broken, has been broken, and will remain broken until the owners care enough to do something about it. The officiating has been dreadful for years. The game is too fast, many of the officals are past their prime, and the league hasnt made full use of technology.

Not wanting to be that guy, but your theory still has the problem that it should result in bad calls being random and thus ultimately just as many in favor of every team as there are against every team. And we're not seeing that. We're seeing certain teams get almost all bad calls against them and certain teams getting almost all bad calls for them.

 

[dieterbrock]

Not wanting to be that guy, but your theory still has the problem that it should result in bad calls being random and thus ultimately just as many in favor of every team as there are against every team. And we're not seeing that. We're seeing certain teams get almost all bad calls against them and certain teams getting almost all bad calls for them.

I think my theory that the level of officiating is awful is fairly just, no?
I thought the flag pickup in the Dallas game was an out and out disgrace. And i think the explanation is even worse. I think the whole officiating system needs an overhaul.
I dont know about the whole even up theory. Had the NFL wanted Dallas to win, Suh would have been kept out of the game.

 

[Boffo97]

I think my theory that the level of officiating is awful is fairly just, no?
I thought the flag pickup in the Dallas game was an out and out disgrace. And i think the explanation is even worse. I think the whole officiating system needs an overhaul.
I dont know about the whole even up theory. Had the NFL wanted Dallas to win, Suh would have been kept out of the game.

I'm not sure what you're saying in your first sentence there.

And to elaborate on the even up theory, it's simple. If bad calls are just randomly the result of awful officiating and no agenda is involved, then, over time, every team's bad calls for and bad calls against should even out. Just as many bad calls for the Rams as against them, and just as many bad calls against the 49ers and Patriots as for them.

But no matter how many some want to claim it's just bias, it's getting more and more ridiculous to even try to make that claim. But rather than address that, you keep attacking the full on conspiracy theory, which I've repeatedly said is not what I believe to be happening.

 

[dieterbrock]

I'm not sure what you're saying in your first sentence there.

And to elaborate on the even up theory, it's simple. If bad calls are just randomly the result of awful officiating and no agenda is involved, then, over time, every team's bad calls for and bad calls against should even out. Just as many bad calls for the Rams as against them, and just as many bad calls against the 49ers and Patriots as for them.

But no matter how many some want to claim it's just bias, it's getting more and more ridiculous to even try to make that claim. But rather than address that, you keep attacking the full on conspiracy theory, which I've repeatedly said is not what I believe to be happening.

Hmmm.... I dont see where I'm"attacking" anything, you have me confused with someone else? Heck, I thought it was shady that the NFL figured out a way to let Suh play in the game, so if anything I thought Dallas started the game with a short deck. And on that play? God it was horrible. Totally a break for Dallas. Sickens me that they won. Had Detroit won on a game saving sack by Suh? We'd probably be hearing the arguement from the Dallas side.
As for bad calls evening out? I dont know about that man. I dont know a fan of any team who feels that his team gets all the breaks. The Rams? Yeah, we got some tough calls against but we did get some in our favor too, like Kaepernick no-td.
In the wake of that disaster, there has been much reported about how the referees and officals operate. And it is shocking to me how the set up is.

 

[Boffo97]

Hmmm.... I dont see where I'm"attacking" anything, you have me confused with someone else? Heck, I thought it was shady that the NFL figured out a way to let Suh play in the game, so if anything I thought Dallas started the game with a short deck. And on that play? God it was horrible. Totally a break for Dallas. Sickens me that they won. Had Detroit won on a game saving sack by Suh? We'd probably be hearing the arguement from the Dallas side.
As for bad calls evening out? I dont know about that man. I dont know a fan of any team who feels that his team gets all the breaks. The Rams? Yeah, we got some tough calls against but we did get some in our favor too, like Kaepernick no-td.
In the wake of that disaster, there has been much reported about how the referees and officals operate. And it is shocking to me how the set up is.

Actually the NFL didn't "allow" anything regarding Suh, unless you're alleging a bigger conspiracy than you're accusing others of. The NFLPA appealed the suspension on Suh's behalf and an independent arbitrator reduced the punishment. And thus, this has nothing to do with this discussion.

When I say "attacking", I meant in terms of attacking an argument. So, no, I don't have you confused with anyone else. You keep arguing against the overreaching conspiracy when that's not what I'm arguing is happenign.

And sure, every team's fans might say they're not getting all the breaks... but to me, it's absolutely common sense that some are getting the vast majority of the breaks, and others hardly get any at all. Of course there will be a FEW exceptions to this, but that doesn't mean there's not a problem.

 

[dieterbrock]

but to me, it's absolutely common sense that some are getting the vast majority of the breaks, and others hardly get any at all. Of course there will be a FEW exceptions to this, but that doesn't mean there's not a problem.

I agree there's a big problem, and its called poor officiating. And the way the system is set up, its not likely to change. The "who gets the breaks" is a subjective position. Again, fans of all teams fell their team gets screwed.

 

[Rmfnlt]

And sure, every team's fans might say they're not getting all the breaks... but to me, it's absolutely common sense that some are getting the vast majority of the breaks, and others hardly get any at all. Of course there will be a FEW exceptions to this, but that doesn't mean there's not a problem.

But how do you prove this (some teams gets more breaks than others)?

 

[Boffo97]

I agree there's a big problem, and its called poor officiating. And the way the system is set up, its not likely to change. The "who gets the breaks" is a subjective position. Again, fans of all teams fell their team gets screwed.

That doesn't mean all fans are right. Show me a 49ers or a Patriots fan that claims they get screwed by the refs more than otherwise and I'll laugh in their face.

But how do you prove this (some teams gets more breaks than others)?

Unfortunately, it's not something you can prove, especially if people refuse to see it no matter what. But it is happening.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Unfortunately, it's not something you can prove, especially if people refuse to see it no matter what. But it is happening.

Now, understand that I'm not saying it isn't true... but I can't say it is either, unless it can be proven.

I like milkshakes!!

 

[Boffo97]

Now, understand that I'm not saying it isn't true... but I can't say it is either, unless it can be proven.

I like milkshakes!!

By that logic, we can't PROVE calls were bad in the first place, and the whole discussion becomes pointless.

Some things are obvious to those who have eyes, even if you can't prove it.

 

[Rmfnlt]

By that logic, we can't PROVE calls were bad in the first place, and the whole discussion becomes pointless.

Some things are obvious to those who have eyes, even if you can't prove it.

Ok, then... I'm tapping out on this one.

 

[dieterbrock]

That doesn't mean all fans are right. Show me a 49ers or a Patriots fan that claims they get screwed by the refs more than otherwise and I'll laugh in their face.
.

You mean like when Kaepernick was called down at the goal line against the Rams? Ok.....
I know a break when I see one and that one surely went our way

 

[Boffo97]

You mean like when Kaepernick was called down at the goal line against the Rams? Ok.....
I know a break when I see one and that one surely went our way

Obviously, no team gets NO bad calls against them or ALL bad calls against them. My argument is that some teams get the vast majority of calls FOR them, and some get the vast majority AGAINST them.

ONE bad call in our favor does nothing to weaken that argument.

 

[dieterbrock]

Obviously, no team gets NO bad calls against them or ALL bad calls against them. My argument is that some teams get the vast majority of calls FOR them, and some get the vast majority AGAINST them.

ONE bad call in our favor does nothing to weaken that argument.

Well, I'm sure a 49er fan would disagree. THAT call literally cost them a game. Other bad calls may have impact but ultimately dont decide the outcome. That one certainly did.
And was even in their own building.
On a side note, I dont watch the Patriots play. Do you watch all their games to emphatically state that they get all the breaks?

 

[Boffo97]

Well, I'm sure a 49er fan would disagree. THAT call literally cost them a game. Other bad calls may have impact but ultimately dont decide the outcome. That one certainly did.
And was even in their own building.
On a side note, I dont watch the Patriots play. Do you watch all their games to emphatically state that they get all the breaks?

And if the 49er fan tried telling me that his team was routinely screwed by the refs, as I said, I'd laugh in his face.

And I've seen enough Patriots games to be sure in what I'm saying.

Are you definitively saying the bad calls DO even out? If so, we're so far apart in what we're seeing that we're probably at an impasse.

 

[dieterbrock]

And if the 49er fan tried telling me that his team was routinely screwed by the refs, as I said, I'd laugh in his face.

And I've seen enough Patriots games to be sure in what I'm saying.

Are you definitively saying the bad calls DO even out? If so, we're so far apart in what we're seeing that we're probably at an impasse.

I am saying that without watching all the games, I am in no postion to make such a claim one way or the other.
I think bad teams lose a lot of games and when they have a call go against them, they harp on it.
I think good teams win a lot of games and when they have a bad call go against them, they win any way and it goes unnoticed.
New England got the Tuck Rule, Dallas got the laundry pickup. I think both calls were a disgrace.

 

[Boffo97]

I am saying that without watching all the games, I am in no postion to make such a claim one way or the other.
I think bad teams lose a lot of games and when they have a call go against them, they harp on it.
I think good teams win a lot of games and when they have a bad call go against them, they win any way and it goes unnoticed.
New England got the Tuck Rule, Dallas got the laundry pickup. I think both calls were a disgrace.

I don't think you have to watch ALL the games to make such a claim. In the games I've seen, the distribution of bad calls has been uneven. And not just by a little bit.

And I disagree with your middle two sentences, especially when it comes to games where we have no dog in the fight. But even with Rams games, I think all of us here are rational enough to see when the Rams benefited from a bad call, and when they got shafted by a bad call, win or lose. And many have noticed an obvious pattern of the Rams and other teams getting shafted much more than not, while certain other teams get the benefit much more or not.

If you haven't noticed the same pattern, fine. But by your above statement, you can't call your fellow fans who do wrong.

 

[dieterbrock]

I don't think you have to watch ALL the games to make such a claim. In the games I've seen, the distribution of bad calls has been uneven. And not just by a little bit.

And I disagree with your middle two sentences, especially when it comes to games where we have no dog in the fight. But even with Rams games, I think all of us here are rational enough to see when the Rams benefited from a bad call, and when they got shafted by a bad call, win or lose. And many have noticed an obvious pattern of the Rams and other teams getting shafted much more than not, while certain other teams get the benefit much more or not.

If you haven't noticed the same pattern, fine. But by your above statement, you can't call your fellow fans who do wrong.

I'm not calling anybody wrong. I'm just saying for me, I cant make a definitive statement like you are asking me to based on seeing a small portion of a team's play.

 

[dieterbrock]

<Gulp>
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/201...ssed-holding-dallas-cowboys-fourth-conversion

 

[Boffo97]

I'm not calling anybody wrong. I'm just saying for me, I cant make a definitive statement like you are asking me to based on seeing a small portion of a team's play.

Alright. That's fair. I certainly can't demand agreement.

At the heart of it, I guess I'm just a little tired of the "Oh, not THIS again" attitude (or worse, even professing anger that such sentiments have come up) when some feel that there are shenanigans going on. I'm not saying you're doing such. But that's why I'm arguing so strongly.

Because I definitely see it. And I'm reasonably sure I'm not insane.