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max

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Does anyone think Fisher has done a good job this year?

I think he has done a poor job. The product he has put on the field in his 2nd year is not representative of a top HC. And he is getting paid as a top HC. The man is stealing money this year.
 

Zaphod

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I disagree. He's dealt with injuries and a tough schedule and still found a way to get his team some wins.

We play in the toughest division in football and because of that it's almost a guaranteed tough schedule every year, but this is still a team on the rise.

What am I really going to hate on him for other than Finnegan and to a lesser extent Cook and Austin?
 

V3

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I don't buy the tough schedule excuse. Raise your standards! Start EXPECTING to beat ANYONE. Fisher has had lots of premium picks, lots of free agency dollars to spend, his choice of coaches, and 2 years. We should be seeing SOMETHING by now.

Fisher is good at leading and keeping the team together and fighting to the end but I haven't seen too much else that I've been impressed with. At least not this year.
 

fancents86

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I'll answer this after the season is over. If we have the same DC next year and we dont make any decent FA moves, then I'll have to say im very dissapointed with him.
 

BonifayRam

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Please don't take this wrong Zaphod but I respectfully disagree with this injury excuse or reason.....What major injuries on defense are we speaking of ? I have been told there are many injuries every season its part of the game. Good coaches become great coaches on how well the prepare for the highly probable injuries. So we loose a non starting CB off & on early... no injuries on the DL ....no injuries on the LB'ing cadre ....Dunbar was MIA for a month but Fisher knew that was coming way before the season began. We lost a starting rookie safety for little over a month...but Fisher has had five safeties on the roster all season.

On the offensive side the main injury to this team was Sam Bradford...Fisher was very much aware that the young Bradford has had a past injury history...Sam last five football season has had three out of five injury field seasons...just saying who is responsible to insure that Sam has a adequate back up... Some odds & ends with Harkey & then Kendricks but they were not at the same time....the wr's have been healthy our RB's have a few nagging injuries but we have five RB's too...Saffold went down for over a month but we had 11 OL'ers on our roster. We just lost our starting Center last week so where are the injuries on offense when compared to the injuries of the past Ram teams over the last decade?

As far as the tough schedule OK but I see it differently I love the fact that we play against the better teams in the NFL it will make you a much better team period...playing against a bunch of looser builds nothing adds nothing to the building of a winning team. I not nowhere close to hating on Fisher but I am sorely disappointed. I certainly do not want him fired but he has a seriously under performing Ram team that may very well end up being a 5-11 2013 Ram team....just not acceptable! Who would you hold responsible? So if Fisher were working for me I would give him a performance rating for 2013 season with an over all rating as "Needs to improve in all areas". I am not happy with your results in 2013 and I would expect you to make all the necessary moves in the off season to ensure that this 2013 season does not repeat itself in 2014.
 

F. Mulder

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Like a lot of things I don't think it's black and white.

What I BELIEVE happened was:

1) Fisher thought having Bradford and Shotty together for a 2nd year coupled with the addition of Austin and Cook and the development of Givens, Quick, and Kendricks, would allow the Rams to play a more wide-open Offense and have Defenses pick their poison. The addition of Long gave the Rams what looked like a solid OL with Saffold and Long at Tackles, Dahl playing steady, Wells healthy and able to begin the season with the team, and Williams and Smith battling it out for the other Guard spot. I think he saw Richardson as a change of pace back with Pead spelling him.

We all know that didn't happen and all the events that led to that; injuries to the OL, lack of development and impact by players, and frankly a weird offensive flow that's hard to describe.

2) Fisher thought that once he had his hand-picked DC he could run the type of D he wanted. He had a good/great front 4 with nice depth. He had JL keeping stuff together at LBer allowing Ogletree to learn on the job. He had returning CBs in vet Finnegan, and developing Jenkins and Johnson. He definitely wanted to protect the Safeties but probably thought that the combination of Def front 4 pressure and the ability to play versions of bend/don't break last year would suffice while they rookies found their stride.

The more general assumption was that first year solid players would become above average second year players, new additions (Long, Cook, Austin) would provide the missing offensive ingredients combined with more continuity offensively while the D would be the difference maker in shutting down opposing teams.

Now that we've had a chance to see what has actually transpired we are left with this:

1) Will the Rams now become a run-first ball control offense as they changed to Stacy and found success with that formula? If so, doesn't that somewhat negate having an alleged franchise QB in Bradford who would appear, if that were the case, to just be a distributor? Does that scheme best utilize the skill sets of Austin and Cook?

This offseason he is going to need to decide what offense they are going to run in 2014 and if the pieces fit to do it. In some ways he has a lot of square pegs trying to fit into round holes IMO. Also, is BS the best person to run said offense? Has he, and the staff, overestimated player development (ala Givens, Quick) or is this just a glitch and part of the overall growing process? Is Bradford the guy to run his offense given the injury and contract status or do they look for a cheaper, QB whose job is to just not turn the ball over or LOSE games?

2) Who are they Defensively? They run a passive D that is scorched when there is no front 4 pressure. They don't seem effective when they blitz. They are weak vs the run. The developmental players (Jenkins) hasn't moved forward and the vet you counted on (Finnegan) is a bust. They are a poor tackling team and their once promising secondary looks horrible and in need of probably 2-3 players in 2014. Finally, is Walton running Fisher's D? If not then he has to evaluate Walton obviously but what if Walton is just carrying out the game plan? Then isn't that on Fisher. And btw, don't Walton and BS work FOR Fisher? Because at some point Fisher needs to alter or correct things that aren't working like I believe he did when they switched to power running with Stacy.

Fisher needs to harshly evaluate himself and his staff and figure out who the Rams want to be in 2014. Frankly all I've seen is a mismash of offensive and defensive philosophies that generally have failed. Once he does that he needs to evaluate his staff from the obvious DC and OC all the way down to position coaches. He then needs to harshly evaluate his players and how they fit into the scheme he wants to run. If the player is not a fit or does not appear to be developing as they wanted they need to cut the strings. Fisher also has to determine why his teams continue to lack playing discipline in things like gap containment, backside support etc as well as penalty discipline whether it be from selfish cheap fouls to the inability to line up right.

Fisher was probably too confident in himself, his staff, his system, and his player's development and it bit him hard. He HAS done a piss poor job this year IMO. However, I actually like Fisher and will judge him on his ability to adjust and determine what he has and what he wants next year given what he has seen this season. I think he is a bright guy and I think the team has talent but lacks continuity and discipline and that ultimately falls on the HC IMO. I want to hear Fisher take responsibility and be accountable and not deflect. As has been pointed out, there are several rebuild teams who seem to "get it" better than the Rams and several teams with young players in key spots doing their job effectively.

Sorry for the treatise for such a "simple" original post Max (lol).
 

max

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I would love for Fisher to answer the question..

Jeff, do you think you have done a good job this year?

And if not, what are you going to do differently to improve?
 

RaminExile

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No I don't think he's done a good job. That doesn't make him a bad coach. He's just not performed as well as he should have this year. Too many mistakes - not enough improvement. I'm talking playcalling and gameplans where they've been consistently outcoached, personnel decisions (Richardson over Stacy early in the season - not getting Tavon Austin involved - not getting Quick on the field often enough), coaching (not enough improvement - regression from players - like Janoris Jenkins, Brian Quick, Chris Givens, Isiah Pead and Darryl Richardson to name a few and big name high salary players not performing - Chris Long, Cortland Finnegan and to a lesser extent James Laurinaitis), and finally not showing a clear sense of why its gone wrong and what we have to do to improve - coming out in press conferences saying things like "it is what it is...we'll get it fixed"....well how coach???

I've always thought this is a 3-4 year project. We've got a lot of draft picks over this period - and rookies by their very nature take time to perform - usually about 3 years to be honest (just look at Robert Quinn). That means the jury's out (for me) on people like Pead, Quick, Jenkins, Brockers et al. I'm not judging them yet. It also makes it difficult to say "We need Sammy Watkins" etc in the draft because ideally Quick, Austin and Bailey should step up.

But if after next season, or possibly the season after we're not seeing post season play in St. Louis then I'm afraid its been another failure. Its that simple.
 

Angry Ram

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Does anyone think Fisher has done a good job this year?

I think he has done a poor job. The product he has put on the field in his 2nd year is not representative of a top HC. And he is getting paid as a top HC. The man is stealing money this year.

Let's not pretend he's suddenly a bad coach either.

And this is knee jerk reaction to a blowout loss. Just like the knee jerk reaction to beating the Bears and Colts and playoff talk being rampant.

So to answer your question....I think he's done a fair job. Some things have definitely been disheartening while at times coaching is the only reason why this team is even in the games.
 

Zaphod

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Not taking it wrong. I understand people's frustration. Agreed that they've been rather lucky at most positions regarding injury.

But I guess the combination of the injury to Bradford and the fact that Clemens is the backup really put them at a disadvantage, and I'll gladly concede to that point on Fisher. As much as I can't condone a pick being spent on another skill player outside of the defense, I have to admit that there are much better veteran backups at that position than Clemens. The Finnegan situation has also grated my nerves since day one. The Cook situation kills me too, when we all know how badly they needed a consistent real target at wide receiver and a tight end that can block for the rushing attack. A good player I'm sure, but a wrong fit.

That's why the Tavon Austin pick grates me too. They want to run the ball, or at least they got an offensive coordinator with a history of doing just that and I have no problem with that, but then they continue to spend picks on wide receivers before the offensive line even has a chance to buy time for these guys to get open. The Quick pick I get, he's working out well blocking and receiving for them regardless of how slowly he's being brought along, but I'll never understand why we need such a small wide receiver when they already have more natural slot receivers than they know what to do with.

I love the tough schedule too. You have to play the best to be the best. But I see a LOT of people on here and elsewhere discounting the 49ers Hawks and Cardinals. And we have to face it that the Seahawks are here to stay, and after their loss to the 49ers this week, the 49ers are a long way from a decline as well.

It's almost bi-polar the way that people go from despondence to unjustified optimism week to week pending the results of the games when all one has to do is take a look at how the next team can handle our rushing attack. I mean, is it really all about the backs, or in the end is it about how our offensive line fares?

But in a season, with serious attention to the secondary and if the football gods are giving a solid DT to replace Langford to help us against the run, I think this team would surprise a lot of teams next year. Defensively.

They still need to get out from under some bad contracts and to deal with depth at the offensive line though.
 

A55VA6

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I think he's done some good and some bad, I believe in him though. Not ready to give up on the guy at all. I expect some changes on the coaching staff and some tough calls on the roster. But I believe Fisher will do what is best for this team.
 

Thordaddy

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max I coach and I'll just tell ya we're younger this year and I expected we could go backwards because young players are hot and cold,I think a record of 12-16-1 with the youngest team in the league over that period and minus your franchise QB for the w vs. l differential is acceptable to me
You have made it clear you expect a winning team next year or you think there is gonna be trouble, and I'm sure there will be for you, but if we get the number one and parlay it into a bunch of young impact players I could see 8-8 being an objective again next year due to the youth paradigm.
Stan gave Fisher a five year deal because he intended a complete rebuild and IMO that hasn't changed ,IMO yr. 4 has to be a winner .

Lemme ask you ,have you ever been on board with Fisher?

There is another thread about the focus of this team and FWIW I think I saw a look on Fisher's face that said" I've had enough of this" re: the lack of discipline .
I think this week in practice will be interesting
 

ausmurp

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I think Fisher has done a fair job as well, taking into account the loss of Bradford. But still there are coaching issues with this team. WR coach is a serious issue, and has been ever since Ellard left. We need to make a change there. We need to bring in a veteran presence at WR as well to help coach these guys - they have NOBODY to learn from on the field. I say bring in Anquan Boldin for a yr, over pay him if we have to.

On defense we need to get a shut down CB and one good safety. Finnigan is not what we thought he was. Our safeties are the worst in the NFL by far. I say give Walton another shot with better secondary, but either way didn't he come from Detroit and isn't his specialty the secondary? They sure didn't/don't have a good secondary, not sure why we even signed this guy.

I also think Laurenitias is more of an issue than a solid player. He is way too slow to play MLB in the NFL in current times. I love him, he wen't to OSU, he was a great college player, etc. etc. But we need to upgrade that position to match what our division foes have - fast athletic guys who can cover and move sideline to sideline.
 

max

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Let's not pretend he's suddenly a bad coach either.

And this is knee jerk reaction to a blowout loss. Just like the knee jerk reaction to beating the Bears and Colts and playoff talk being rampant.

So to answer your question....I think he's done a fair job. Some things have definitely been disheartening while at times coaching is the only reason why this team is even in the games.

I'm not pretending anything. I don't think he's a bad coach. I think he's had a bad year.

Just like Sinatra. He's had bad years, and very good years. And this year has been a bad year for Fisher.

But to say at times coaching is the only reason why this team is in games is impossible to digest. The lack of discipline, the defensive coaching, all the penalties are just hard to watch.

Torry Holt just said everyone needs to be reevaluated, INCLUDING the coaches.

Fisher needs to make changes. I think he's too good of a coach to look at the performance this year and not make some significant moves.
 

fearsomefour

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Like a lot of things I don't think it's black and white.

What I BELIEVE happened was:

1) Fisher thought having Bradford and Shotty together for a 2nd year coupled with the addition of Austin and Cook and the development of Givens, Quick, and Kendricks, would allow the Rams to play a more wide-open Offense and have Defenses pick their poison. The addition of Long gave the Rams what looked like a solid OL with Saffold and Long at Tackles, Dahl playing steady, Wells healthy and able to begin the season with the team, and Williams and Smith battling it out for the other Guard spot. I think he saw Richardson as a change of pace back with Pead spelling him.

Makes sense and I believe this as well.

2) Fisher thought that once he had his hand-picked DC he could run the tye of D he wanted. He had a good/great front 4 with nice depth. He had JL keeping stuff together at LBer allowing Ogletree to learn on the job. He had returning CBs in vet Finnegan, and developing Jenkins and Johnson. He definitely wanted to protect the Safeties but probably thought that the combination of Def front 4 pressure and the ability to play versions of bend/don't break last year would suffice while they rookies found their stride.

I agree with this as well, but, I fear this is the D he wants to run. If the O lived up to, as it turned out, wildly optimistic projections then the D could be successful with this approach.


1) Will the Rams now become a run-first ball control offense as they changed to Stacy and found success with that formula? If so, doesn't that somewhat negate having an alleged franchise QB in Bradford who would appear, if that were the case, to just be a distributor? Does that scheme best utilize the skill sets of Austin and Cook?

I dont think it is an either or situation really. With Cook you can pass out of run sets, the personal on the field may take some tweaking, but, run first doesnt mean the end of the passing game or big plays.

2) Who are they Defensively? They run a passive D that is scorched when there is no front 4 pressure. They don't seem effective when they blitz. They are weak vs the run. The developmental players (Jenkins) hasn't moved forward and the vet you counted on (Finnegan) is a bust. They are a poor tackling team and their once promising secondary looks horrible and in need of probably 2-3 players in 2014. Finally, is Walton running Fisher's D? If not then he has to evaluate Walton obviously but what if Walton is just carrying out the game plan? Then isn't that on Fisher. And btw, don't Walton and BS work FOR Fisher? Because at some point Fisher needs to alter or correct things that aren't working like I believe he did when they switched to power running with Stacy.

Agreed again. I dont think the players are the problem. They got guys that are athletic ect. they just dont have good technique. I think the "easy" answer is to trade out all the CBs for new ones. I want to see more depth, but, if the coaching and approach (accountability being part of that) dont change we will just have different names not covering and not tackling.

Fisher needs to harshly evaluate himself and his staff and figure out who the Rams want to be in 2014. Frankly all I've seen is a mismash of offensive and defensive philosophies that generally have failed. Once he does that he needs to evaluate his staff from the obvious DC and OC all the way down to position coaches. He then needs to harshly evaluate his players and how they fit into the scheme he wants to run. If the player is not a fit or does not appear to be developing as they wanted they need to cut the strings. Fisher also has to determine why his teams continue to lack playing discipline in things like gap containment, backside support etc as well as penalty discipline whether it be from selfish cheap fouls to the inability to line up right.

All true. I dont think I have ever seen an NFL team flagged more for illegal alignments on O. Number 1 in the league in penalties, there is no excuse for this.
 

Thordaddy

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I'm not pretending anything. I don't think he's a bad coach. I think he's had a bad year.

Just like Sinatra. He's had bad years, and very good years. And this year has been a bad year for Fisher.

But to say at times coaching is the only reason why this team is in games is impossible to digest. The lack of discipline, the defensive coaching, all the penalties are just hard to watch.

Torry Holt just said everyone needs to be reevaluated, INCLUDING the coaches.

Fisher needs to make changes. I think he's too good of a coach to look at the performance this year and not make some significant moves.
And if he agrees with you he will
 

Angry Ram

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I'm not pretending anything. I don't think he's a bad coach. I think he's had a bad year.

Just like Sinatra. He's had bad years, and very good years. And this year has been a bad year for Fisher.

But to say at times coaching is the only reason why this team is in games is impossible to digest. The lack of discipline, the defensive coaching, all the penalties are just hard to watch.

Torry Holt just said everyone needs to be reevaluated, INCLUDING the coaches.

Fisher needs to make changes. I think he's too good of a coach to look at the performance this year and not make some significant moves.

And how many penalties are legit? I'd at most a third are actually legitimate fouls.

Basically any game after the Sam injury...they've done a great job in trying to Kellen Clemens' mistakes. It's not like they've been blown out week after week on a consistent basis.

This has def been a down year for him. I'm not gonna say it's a bad year b/c there's still signs of hope in my eyes. It's a complete opposite from what's going down in Washington.
 

Zaphod

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I also think Laurenitias is more of an issue than a solid player. He is way too slow to play MLB in the NFL in current times. I love him, he wen't to OSU, he was a great college player, etc. etc. But we need to upgrade that position to match what our division foes have - fast athletic guys who can cover and move sideline to sideline.
I agree with the whole post there, but on this point exactly even though I don't know if this is the year to draft his replacement. Lauruiitis is far from the weakest link as the secondary is awful, but he's not the best fit for this team at middle line backer. In a way, I really think that made the Ogletree draft work as his potential replacement in the middle. But then I'm thinking you then look at another linebacker that can go side line to sideline?

Edge runs have been killing us no doubt, and as much I would love to see the Rams be able to bull rush effectively, Hageman may actually be a better compliment to Brockers if they went with a tackle instead of linebacker. Either way, I think they're one pick away from dramatically climbing up the charts on run defense.