Sam Bradford - Arizona and Atlanta Games Revisited

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jrry32

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Lesson said:
jrry32 said:
Wish we'd see more of Cory Harkey.

Same here. I'd love to see Harkey in the backfield as a FB, with Cook out wide and Kendricks lined up as a normal TE.

Agreed. Or just Kendricks and Harkey. Or Cook and Harkey. Or Cook and Kendricks. We should see more two TE looks. Kendricks tends to be overlooked when he's out there with Cook.

Regardless, having more blocking wouldn't hurt.

I'd love to see us go out there with Harkey, Kendricks/Cook, Givens and Austin.

Yep, Austin split out wide. One thing I found when watching Austin while doing my charting(pet project of mine). He's giving guys absolute hell when they try to press him. Still has some hiccups with his route running but the DB ends up looking stupid more often than not when they try to get their hands on him while pressing. He's just too small and quick. They can't get a good shot on him. Pettis has also looked excellent this year at avoiding the press.

Actually, people should back off Pettis. From the video I watched, he'd be tearing it up if our OL could hold their blocks a little longer. Seen him get open quite a few times on intermediate routes only for it to be for naught because Sam couldn't take the time to let his route develop.

He's playing well.
 

TexasRam

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Some definite missed Opportunities there. A few were way down the field and would be a huge Risk.

At this point It's clear Sam doesn't see the field like the Elite QB's.

His Real problem seems to be the play it safe mentality though. He may have seen those WR's and thought otherwise since alot of them had a degree of risk, at least to his mind.

I agree with Warner. Sam has to start throwing the ball down the field and stop being so safe.
 

moklerman

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Would it make anyone feel better to point out that Sam hasn't actually played 3 years worth of games yet? There could be light bulbs going on any time now.
 

Faceplant

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Lots of blame to go around for sure. OL is every bit as bad as you described. Gonna be tough sledding til that gets some (more) attention. Can we please get that shored up???? One of my main concerns with Sam is that he appears to only look at his primary target. If that doesn't look good, it's checkdown city. A lot of times, it appears he forces it to that primary. It reminds me of the scene from anchorman where they put "go fuck yourself San Diego" on Ron's teleprompter, cuz they know he just reads whatever that thing says. Don't know why it reminds me of that, but now I must watch Anchorman for the 50th time.... Great movie. Wow, theres an ADD moment..

anchorman_exhibit.jpg


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moklerman said:
Would it make anyone feel better to point out that Sam hasn't actually played 3 years worth of games yet? There could be light bulbs going on any time now.
I've had to make that point on multiple occasions on another forum that kept calling him a 4-year starter before this season even began. At that time he actually had 2.5 years worth of PT. And you're right ... he's still not up to 3 years' worth yet.
 
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again, there are a lot of other football "minds" out there, more than likely way smarter in regards to this game than anyone in this forum. i tried to make this pt earlier in the season and got BASHED by most. i still stand by my opinion and if this type of work has to be put in before some members of this forum even begin to remotely understand what is going on with bradford, its obvious that they do not know how to watch a football game or that it is pure homerism and fan boy stuff to stand by bradford and consider him even remotely better than an avg qb. great work by the original poster by the way, these shots seem to show the timidness that sam plays with. he may have the greatest arm, footwork and skills in the nfl but he doesnt pass very many peoples "eye test". my original comment after game 1 was that we cannot win a super bowl with sb, im beginning to wonder wether or not he can lead a team to the playoffs...
 

jrry32

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DegenR(g)ambler said:
again, there are a lot of other football "minds" out there, more than likely way smarter in regards to this game than anyone in this forum. i tried to make this pt earlier in the season and got BASHED by most. i still stand by my opinion and if this type of work has to be put in before some members of this forum even begin to remotely understand what is going on with bradford, its obvious that they do not know how to watch a football game or that it is pure homerism and fan boy stuff to stand by bradford and consider him even remotely better than an avg qb. great work by the original poster by the way, these shots seem to show the timidness that sam plays with. he may have the greatest arm, footwork and skills in the nfl but he doesnt pass very many peoples "eye test". my original comment after game 1 was that we cannot win a super bowl with sb, im beginning to wonder wether or not he can lead a team to the playoffs...

If that post was anything like this, you likely got "bashed" less on the merits of your words and more on the tone. As the old cliche states, "it's not what you say, it's how you say it."

As far as Bradford, I'm starting to edge closer and closer to the determination that we need to move on after this year. He really has issues reading the defense between the hashes. Misses a lot of openings down the seam.

I don't know if it's "timidness" or if he legitimately just doesn't see it. Frankly, I hope it is timidness. Because if he isn't seeing it and he isn't anticipating it...we have major issues.

Someone just did this sort of breakdown on the SF game on another board and it was bad. Very bad.
 

BigRamFan

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DegenR(g)ambler said:
again, there are a lot of other football "minds" out there, more than likely way smarter in regards to this game than anyone in this forum. i tried to make this pt earlier in the season and got BASHED by most. i still stand by my opinion and if this type of work has to be put in before some members of this forum even begin to remotely understand what is going on with bradford, its obvious that they do not know how to watch a football game or that it is pure homerism and fan boy stuff to stand by bradford and consider him even remotely better than an avg qb. great work by the original poster by the way, these shots seem to show the timidness that sam plays with. he may have the greatest arm, footwork and skills in the nfl but he doesnt pass very many peoples "eye test". my original comment after game 1 was that we cannot win a super bowl with sb, im beginning to wonder wether or not he can lead a team to the playoffs...

First of all I appreciate all the time put into the OP. However, anyone who claims to be able to come to all of these "conclusions" from looking at a single still shot my want to evaluate their own football "mind". Looking at a single picture has little to do with "watching" a game.

Signed "fan boy"!
 

BigRamFan

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DR RAM said:
bluecoconuts said:
That last picture I don't think throwing to cook would be the correct throw.

There is obviously a lane there, and sitting there watching Sam is the linebacker. It would have been an easy interception if he went to Cook. He can't lift it over the line because he'll just throw it over Cook's head. He can't throw between Wells and Dahl because that would be well behind Cook, and also an easy interception to the line backer there, and he obviously can't throw through the ref, which still wouldn't be a good throw and would be picked off because it would be behind Cook.

So essentially by the coverage by the defense, where the throwing lane is and to some extend where the ref is, Cook is not an option on that play. If he was to complete it to Cook for the TD it would have to be because the defense was so incredibly stupid they just didn't react and let it happen. Which you obviously can't count on.



The rest of the plays I'll take a look at. Obviously there are places that Sam needs to improve upon, and he has missed a few throws, as does every QB... That last one though it's a misread by Sam. Throwing it to Cook would be the misread.
I have issue with more than a few plays that you outlined, and I agree with nuts on the Cook throw. As soon as Sam turns his eyes there, the linebacker can take two steps and at least knock it down, they are way too close.

On another play, you want Sam to see someone while scrambling, and throw it back across his body, not a good choice if you ask me.

On a few others Sam is throwing to open players, so I can't fault him for that.

On one play, you want Sam to see and throw to the other side of the field, when you can see a whole route tree in front of him, he doesn't normally have time to go through 3 progressions, and look back to the other side of the field.

There are a couple plays where Sam probably could have made a different throw, not should have made a different throw.

There are pressures, breakdowns, we don't know if the receivers are where they are supposed to be, we don't know the play call.

jrry, we know that you have lost all confidence in Sam, and it seems that you are on a crusade to convince others to do the same. I am not willing to go there with all the other problems on the team. I will not do it, because there are so many factors that we know about, and so many more that we don't know about.

I know this for a fact, if Sam, or any QB in history, keeps getting crushed, hurried, pressured, sacked, hit in the face, he will under-perform. It is a fact. I've never seen a QB succeed under those circumstances. Never. Compound that with a offense full of guys NOT executing, receivers running sloppy, or wrong routes, dropping the ball on third downs, different interior offensive lineman whiffing, tight ends, and running backs missing blocks and assignments, not playing your best pass pro RB.

I'm not asking for a perfect complement that would make Sam look great. I am just looking for a little consistency, good or bad, because then he would know, and our OC would know how to make adjustments, and to overcome our weaknesses, and strengths. We can't do that, because we have a different guy freaking up on every play. If pressure only comes from the outside, or hopefully only one side, then he would be able to step up. But he can't, because our RB's can't block, our center gets beat, and hardly gets his hand on his man, then the LG misses a block, then, the RG misses a block. Internal pressure is way worse than external pressure. There is nowhere to go, and it gets there too fast.

I can't throw him under the bus at this point. There's too many factors contributing to his lack of success. BTW, you could do this type of analysis to any team, including Denver, and you will be able to find similar looks. Really, only the coaches know if Sam is making the wrong decisions. They know.

I do appreciate the amount of time and effort that you put into this.

^^^This^^^

Post of the month...at the very least.
 

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DegenR(g)ambler said:
again, there are a lot of other football "minds" out there, more than likely way smarter in regards to this game than anyone in this forum. i tried to make this pt earlier in the season and got BASHED by most. i still stand by my opinion and if this type of work has to be put in before some members of this forum even begin to remotely understand what is going on with bradford, its obvious that they do not know how to watch a football game or that it is pure homerism and fan boy stuff to stand by bradford and consider him even remotely better than an avg qb. great work by the original poster by the way, these shots seem to show the timidness that sam plays with. he may have the greatest arm, footwork and skills in the nfl but he doesnt pass very many peoples "eye test". my original comment after game 1 was that we cannot win a super bowl with sb, im beginning to wonder wether or not he can lead a team to the playoffs...
So... I'm a homer fanboy who doesn't know how to watch a football game (even though I was recruited by FSU as a safety). All because I have a different way of scouting Bradford that doesn't line up with yours?

Seems unlikely to me.

.

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max

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To me this is pretty simple. I listen to Vermeil. If anyone know what a QB looks like when he has had too many coaches confusing the hell out of him, it Vermeil.

All the other stuff can be tied to that in combination with the bad play of the supporting cast.
 

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I can tell you the wind is really out of my sails for all aspects of this team from Front Office and Coaches to Players. I just feel real cheated and disappointed. It is beyond one or two key pays turning a game against us; it is a TOTAL team effort (or lack there of) as well as some questionable coaching. The same goes for Bradford. I am (or switching to past tense) high on Bradford but last game really sucked. I keep waiting for a QB who can overcome adverse situations and lead his team to victory. I keep waiting for a QB who becomes the leader and doesn't look like a deer in the headlights (which is what I've seen more of lately). I keep waiting for a QB who is a playmaker and not a check-down Charlie at the first sign of pressure.

Just like all the previous games, this game will tell us a lot about the team, and the coaches approach/confidence regarding the team.

I'd love to see the Rams able to run the ball to some degree of success as well as Bradford pushing the ball down the field more. The Defense is certainly not without blame. Wouldn't it be nice for the front 4 to dominate a relatively week OL? Or the DBs to come up with an INT or two?

I think the next 12 games will tell a lot of us about where we stand at most positions and Bradford is no longer exempt in my book FWIW.
 

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Elmgrovegnome said:
Sam has plenty of time on that last one.

My thoughts on Sam from the beginning were that he looked very green. I figured he would learn as time went on and be able to make these throws by now. I guess that the look on his face is not that of being inexperienced, but more so that he just doesn't have it. Sam does not look or talk like a leader. He gives the impression of being bright eyed and bushytailed (if that makes sense to you). People are dismissive of these impressions often but I have found that over time I need to believe them. Cutler had a 'look' and he lived up to it.

Enough with the personal impressions. Sam has trust issues. He does not like to throw to WRs that he doesn't trust. He immediately looks for the guy that has not been dropping the ball. Recently this has been Pettis. In the beginning he was looking to Givens and Cook a lot. They both had some drops as did Tavon Austin and now he is down to trusting ONE wide receiver again.... a la Danny Amendola. So he locks onto his new favorite target and is very predictable.

Batted Passes- I am guessing that it must be very obvious to DLinemen to tell when Sam is about to throw. Maybe it is a look on his face that he gets or the way he holds his arm but he certainly doesn't have a quick release that is unexpected, because he gets far too many balls batted down.

Hearing footsteps-
Sam obviously has reason not to trust his Oline and compound that by not trusting his WRs and there is no outlet for him. He gets scared and has nobody to turn to. This is a mental thing obviously but I am not so sure he will ever get over it.


In the end, I have given up hope that Sam will ever even be a good game manager. I don't think he has the vision or ability to process information quickly enough to be a franchise QB. I have held out hope up until the last two games. The Rams need to draft a replacement IMO.

Same. I just worry that this regime won't do it. They're talking about trying to extend Bradford already. They put all the eggs in the Bradford basket and they're probably going to go down with it. They should have drafted RG3 and traded Bradford when he still had value. They're paid to make those decisions and make sure they're the right ones and right now it's not looking good. I think they're determined to prove that it wasn't a mistake and that's just going to put this franchise back even further by passing the chance to draft a new QB while they can.
 

BigRamFan

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I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.
 

BigRamFan

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X said:
DegenR(g)ambler said:
again, there are a lot of other football "minds" out there, more than likely way smarter in regards to this game than anyone in this forum. i tried to make this pt earlier in the season and got BASHED by most. i still stand by my opinion and if this type of work has to be put in before some members of this forum even begin to remotely understand what is going on with bradford, its obvious that they do not know how to watch a football game or that it is pure homerism and fan boy stuff to stand by bradford and consider him even remotely better than an avg qb. great work by the original poster by the way, these shots seem to show the timidness that sam plays with. he may have the greatest arm, footwork and skills in the nfl but he doesnt pass very many peoples "eye test". my original comment after game 1 was that we cannot win a super bowl with sb, im beginning to wonder wether or not he can lead a team to the playoffs...
So... I'm a homer fanboy who doesn't know how to watch a football game (even though I was recruited by FSU as a safety). All because I have a different way of scouting Bradford that doesn't line up with yours?

Seems unlikely to me.

.

sent via Tapatalk.

Liked it better before the revision.
 

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BigRamFan said:
X said:
DegenR(g)ambler said:
again, there are a lot of other football "minds" out there, more than likely way smarter in regards to this game than anyone in this forum. i tried to make this pt earlier in the season and got BASHED by most. i still stand by my opinion and if this type of work has to be put in before some members of this forum even begin to remotely understand what is going on with bradford, its obvious that they do not know how to watch a football game or that it is pure homerism and fan boy stuff to stand by bradford and consider him even remotely better than an avg qb. great work by the original poster by the way, these shots seem to show the timidness that sam plays with. he may have the greatest arm, footwork and skills in the nfl but he doesnt pass very many peoples "eye test". my original comment after game 1 was that we cannot win a super bowl with sb, im beginning to wonder wether or not he can lead a team to the playoffs...
So... I'm a homer fanboy who doesn't know how to watch a football game (even though I was recruited by FSU as a safety). All because I have a different way of scouting Bradford that doesn't line up with yours?

Seems unlikely to me.

.

sent via Tapatalk.

Liked it better before the revision.
Me too, "fanboy."

:lol:
 

jrry32

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BigRamFan said:
I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.
 

BigRamFan

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jrry32 said:
BigRamFan said:
I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.
 

jrry32

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BigRamFan said:
jrry32 said:
BigRamFan said:
I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.
 

BigRamFan

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jrry32 said:
BigRamFan said:
jrry32 said:
BigRamFan said:
I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.

I agree that Kendricks is greatly underappreciated. I know that Cook has great athleticism but right now I need more time to determine exactly what kind of football player he is.

I think ALL of our current WRs are talented as well but they are young and I expect to see more consistency from them going forward. The entire world seems to be up in arms about the overthrow, under inside pressure, to Pettis against SF but the drops we have seen far outnumber bad passes IMO.