Right now the Rams have a problem in PAYING the wrong players

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So Ram

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Not even going to get into Tavon here. But Tree in particular demonstrates that they locked up yet another guy who cannot produce in their scheme, and then had to orchestrate a trade to clean up the mess.

Meanwhile guys who DID excel in their scheme are yet to be signed to include Joyner needing to be tagged. And while I hear a lot of "relax man, the period just started" comments from other posters, there is a history with the secondary in particular where this organization has bled good talent, so it's not a reach to be concerned that it might continue.

I am not trying to light this front office on fire here. I have faith in them. But RIGHT NOW they have a pretty poor track record in terms of retaining their own. And this is something I genuinely hope turns around here real soon.

I think your way off mark here. If they don’t sign Ogletree then then don’t get draft picks.
It gave them time to reflect.
They got out of the Quinn contract as well.

It’s a new fucking regime . Tell me how they have F’d up since Fishers firing ?
 

So Ram

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I am not sure that the extension was done solely for the purpose of trading him instead of letting him hit ufa and we get nothing.

I dont know if that is what happened or if thats a stupid idea... but I do know that these guys like Demoff and Snead have to be several chess moves ahead the competition when it comes to working with the cap in an ever changing NFL economy.

To be fair to the poster Demoff has not done a good job on resigning players.

What or how much input does Snead have at certain points ? Was Snead the one head over heals on Tavon ? I don’t think so , but if so then I have some doubts on his scouting.

To be fair to Tavon he as well as Sammy missed almost all of training camp.

Long & JL55 were bad contracts , but how else do you get players to resign ?

Now players know the direction of the team is on the up trend. Players want to win & feel the love .

I think The Rams are on the right track.

Talking Joyner ? Who knew how much of an unpacked he would have at FS ? Wade put him in great position to compete.
 

RamFan503

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Who gave Ogletree his ridiculous extension? ...not FIsher, and not McVay.... McVay may have been around, but maybe went off of Snead's recommendation
Can you explain how this was a "ridiculous extension"? Hell - he was considered an upper end talent at LB and had showed he could play the MLB role. He also was a very good locker room guy. He simply didn't transition to Wade's D. It was worth a shot rather than just letting him walk and HOPING to get a comp pick if we didn't bring in another top LB to replace him. It has also been stated that the extension is the only way we were able to get what we did from the Giants. Seems to make sense to me but what do I know. Not much about NFL contracts but I do know what they did with Tree then and now really doesn't bother me or make me think they did anything ridiculous.
 

Ram65

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But the concern here is that they actually PAID Tree before they knew how he'd transition into the scheme, making the same mistake they made with guys like Tavon.
Wasn't Tree extended around mid season or so. Can' remember the exact time. The should have know what they had. Maybe he regressed. Either way it cost cap valuable space.


This is silly. This is the McVay/Snead 1st off season where they have a season of play for evaluation purposes.
Ogletree would have been a FA had they not signed him to an extension, and had they let him walk, they get nothing. Instead, they extend him and are able to trade him for a 4th rounder and a 6th.
I hate losing the player, and not sure if this sets a bad precedent, but their move did make sense and pays off.

IIRC the 6.4 Mil cap his or is 8 Million for his signing bonus seems really steep for a 4th and 6th.

Seems like the Rams have made wrong choices over and over when it's extension time.
 

So Ram

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I think about 70% of this board nailed that one.

To what extent? There were fans that wanted him at CB as well. 10%

No way 70% would have thought The Rams would franchise him , and he would play to that caliber.
I was all over the doubters that he was fine at FS. His size going against Jimmy Graham was a joke. Put him at FS & he knocks his ASS down. Joyner has always been a excellent tackler.
He also has good cover skills , unless they key & match up on him.
That’s another reason why FS is good for him. He can mix it up with QB’s not being able to read it quickly.
 

kurtfaulk

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We actually gained cap space, not lost it. We have an extra 5.2 ish million.

what he's saying is if they didn't extend ogletree last season and just let him walk the rams would have an extra $6.4m in cap space than they have right now. then again they wouldn't have an extra 4th and 6th round pick in the upcoming draft. which do you think the rams prefer?

.
 

RamFan503

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Wasn't Tree extended around mid season or so. Can' remember the exact time. The should have know what they had. Maybe he regressed. Either way it cost cap valuable space.
After game 5. And as to his regressing.... He had 54 tackles in five games before the contract - only 22 more over the next 7 games leading into his elbow injury. So I would say that 54 tackles in 5 games is a pretty blistering pace and would lead one to believe he was going to continue growing in the new system. But then the bottom fell out. I don't know if he was nicked up or teams figured they could run at him or....? But finishing the last 12 games with 41 tackles sure does indicate that he was regressing. And yes - I realize there was some time off for the injury - but he was only averaging 3 tackles a game in the 7 games leading up to it. That's not good for an ILB.

I liked Tree and had high hopes based on what he had done with us before. This season was a big frustration as it was I'm sure for the Rams Front Office.
 

LesBaker

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I think the point is that we couldn't assume getting a 4th round comp pick and also let that control what we did in the future. It doesn't appear that the contract really hurt us and was really the only way we were going to get any trade value. As it is, we got a 4th and a 6th and the chance to see if he would be a fit. Makes sense to me.

And they are saving cap $ too so this was a really sensible way to handle this. This, IMO, shows us that they possess intelligent and forward thinking management of human and financial resources. Like I said in another thread, risk and vision.

He played very well in a 4-3 so it made sense to try him in the 3-4 to see how he did figuring that his tape would make it easier to trade him since he had good stuff to show potential new teams in trade talks.
 

RamFan503

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To what extent? There were fans that wanted him at CB as well. 10%

No way 70% would have thought The Rams would franchise him , and he would play to that caliber.
I was all over the doubters that he was fine at FS. His size going against Jimmy Graham was a joke. Put him at FS & he knocks his ASS down. Joyner has always been a excellent tackler.
He also has good cover skills , unless they key & match up on him.
That’s another reason why FS is good for him. He can mix it up with QB’s not being able to read it quickly.
No - I meant that he would be better off at FS than CB. I thought he could be great in that role and so did many others (dare I say most) on here - pretty much since we drafted him. I can't say anyone thought last year that we'd be franchising him but most suspected it leading up to the deadline this year.
 

RamFan503

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And they are saving cap $ too so this was a really sensible way to handle this.
Well it is costing them cap space from my understanding but only about half his contract amount this year and not much in the pro-rated years. Still, it doesn't seem like such a big deal. I sure as hell remember far worse and I'm sure fans of other teams do as well.
 

Merlin

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I agree, however I would say I raised a similar issue as it relates specifically to Tavon some time ago and I got lit up like a Christmas tree. :sneaky:

No doubt. Before camp started I threw out a similar post for DISCUSSION about how moving Tavon would be wise while he still had value. Results were similar to this one... :p

It's all good man. I like to discuss $#!T and sometimes a point of discussion is a non-good one irt the team at large.

To be fair to the poster Demoff has not done a good job on resigning players.

Appreciate that. But the key here is that of their own players not only have they not re-signed them, but they have re-signed the wrong ones. It is a fact and something that I mentioned I hope they can fix, and we're going to see real soon here whether they can do that.

Just because I like Demoff and Les and this entire coaching staff doesn't mean I'm not willing to go down those dark alleys for that discourse.

Using Ogletree as an example I find myself wondering how it happened. Was Wade in on it? And if so to what extent? Did Les tell him "you're gonna love this guy and we have a window open to sign him" or did Kevin just get it done based on the opinion of him in the building, or did the staff like what they saw early on and push for it?

Five months later. That's a mistake. And in my own realm of aircraft maintenance we are always looking at processes to see how mistakes happen, so that we can correct them. That's always where I'm comin from, personally, for the record.
 

Merlin

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Isn’t hind sight and second guessing great! So far McSnead has done very very little that hasn’t worked out. Personally what they did so far this off season has been amazing.

You know me pretty well OS, did that post really seem like I'm trying to take credit from them for what they've done right? Like I wanted to start some hindsight game and character assassinate them or something?

This move was a big deal man. There are a lot more signings that have to happen if we want to have a good team next year. The trend is real, not making this stuff up.

One thing the moves have in common is the Rams trying to lock them up before their big impact years. But when you miss repeatedly on your own dudes, there is a problem. It's not a problem that outweighs the good by any means, but it is an issue for right now with this team that, as I said, I hope they rectify.
 

RamFan503

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OK.. But I'm pretty sure he was locked up because past play, not 4-5 games.. Just saying.
I'm sure the contract was drafted before the five games but it's likely, the Rams decided to move forward on it after Tree was making a pretty damn good start to the season.