Right now the Rams have a problem in PAYING the wrong players

[OldSchool]

You know me pretty well OS, did that post really seem like I'm trying to take credit from them for what they've done right? Like I wanted to start some hindsight game and character assassinate them or something?

This move was a big deal man. There are a lot more signings that have to happen if we want to have a good team next year. The trend is real, not making this stuff up.

One thing the moves have in common is the Rams trying to lock them up before their big impact years. But when you miss repeatedly on your own dudes, there is a problem. It's not a problem that outweighs the good by any means, but it is an issue for right now with this team that, as I said, I hope they rectify.

The difference is I don’t think they missed on anybody. Maybe we could have kept Jenkins, I don’t see any failures at all.

 

[So Ram]

No - I meant that he would be better off at FS than CB. I thought he could be great in that role and so did many others (dare I say most) on here - pretty much since we drafted him. I can't say anyone thought last year that we'd be franchising him but most suspected it leading up to the deadline this year.

I’ll give you that. It’s a moving entity right now with the direction The Rams are going in Free Agency. I think that has played apart as well.

 

[Akrasian]

We actually gained cap space, not lost it. We have an extra 5.2 ish million.

By extending Ogletree, the cap hit was going to be $11.6 million in 2018. They regained $5.2 million of that by trading him, thanks to finding a team willing to make the trade official before his roster bonus is due. That's still a net loss of $6.4 million cap space compared to not extending him. Once the extension was signed this may be making the best of a bad situation, but that doesn't make it a good situation compared to what might have been without that extension.

 

[So Ram]

No doubt. Before camp started I threw out a similar post for DISCUSSION about how moving Tavon would be wise while he still had value. Results were similar to this one...

It's all good man. I like to discuss $#!T and sometimes a point of discussion is a non-good one irt the team at large.



Appreciate that. But the key here is that of their own players not only have they not re-signed them, but they have re-signed the wrong ones. It is a fact and something that I mentioned I hope they can fix, and we're going to see real soon here whether they can do that.

Just because I like Demoff and Les and this entire coaching staff doesn't mean I'm not willing to go down those dark alleys for that discourse.

Using Ogletree as an example I find myself wondering how it happened. Was Wade in on it? And if so to what extent? Did Les tell him "you're gonna love this guy and we have a window open to sign him" or did Kevin just get it done based on the opinion of him in the building, or did the staff like what they saw early on and push for it?

Five months later. That's a mistake. And in my own realm of aircraft maintenance we are always looking at processes to see how mistakes happen, so that we can correct them. That's always where I'm comin from, personally, for the record.

How is that a mistake when The Rams sign Ogletree & don’t let him get away without any compensation . The Rams got a 4th & a 6th.

Maybe you wait a year longer to get a 3rd rd pick. The draft is deep in LBers.

Plus The Rams don’t have a 2nd rd pick this year either , making draft picks this year in there pocket more valuable.

Who knows what FA’s The Rams sign either.

Your point is not valid.

 

[LesBaker]

Well it is costing them cap space from my understanding but only about half his contract amount this year and not much in the pro-rated years. Still, it doesn't seem like such a big deal. I sure as hell remember far worse and I'm sure fans of other teams do as well.

Freed up 5+MIL from what I read on here and I trust our posters.

exceptthatbastagewiththe503inhisname.

 

[LesBaker]

Signing of Ogletree ?

What?

 

[1maGoh]

By extending Ogletree, the cap hit was going to be $11.6 million in 2018. They regained $5.2 million of that by trading him, thanks to finding a team willing to make the trade official before his roster bonus is due. That's still a net loss of $6.4 million cap space compared to not extending him. Once the extension was signed this may be making the best of a bad situation, but that doesn't make it a good situation compared to what might have been without that extension.

No. He had a signing bonus we still have to pay and doing bonus payments the next 2 years that get accelerated to this year. That totals 4.8 million.

He had a roster bonus if 3m and a salary of 7m that we don't have to pay. It's been discussed a lot in the 'we traded him' thread. We saved cap space, not lost it.

 

[RamFan503]

You know me pretty well OS, did that post really seem like I'm trying to take credit from them for what they've done right? Like I wanted to start some hindsight game and character assassinate them or something?

This move was a big deal man. There are a lot more signings that have to happen if we want to have a good team next year. The trend is real, not making this stuff up.

One thing the moves have in common is the Rams trying to lock them up before their big impact years. But when you miss repeatedly on your own dudes, there is a problem. It's not a problem that outweighs the good by any means, but it is an issue for right now with this team that, as I said, I hope they rectify.

What do you consider repeatedly missing on your own dudes and how many teams don't miss on a few, allow some fan favorites to walk, draft a bust, etc.... It's just not an exact science and though you say the "problem" doesn't outweigh the good, you seem to be letting it.

The Ogletree contract is not really a big deal. I would say the TA contract was a bigger mistake because it appears they didn't really have any plan of how they were going to form an offense - let alone use him in it. Tree on the other hand, was coming off a stellar season and had started off averaging over ten tackles a game in a new system when they inked the new deal. It was looking to everyone like he was making a smooth transition and was going to earn his contract.

Unfortunately, we have had a lot of draft picks and many of them on the upper scale. And aside from a few pieces, not a whole lot of the players fit in this system - especially on defense. So there will be a lot of turmoil right now as they work things through. Hopefully they will get a deal worked out with AD and maybe even a long term deal done with Joyner. If Tru goes - so be it. He's not worth #1 money so if he insists he is then I will be glad we didn't sign our own dude. That's the way it went with JJ and to a lesser extent, McLeod. They tested the market and followed the money. And personally, I don't think either one has played well enough to be second guessing not paying them.

 

[Akrasian]

No. He had a signing bonus we still have to pay and doing bonus payments the next 2 years that get accelerated to this year. That totals 4.8 million.

He had a roster bonus if 3m and a salary of 7m that we don't have to pay. It's been discussed a lot in the 'we traded him' thread. We saved cap space, not lost it.

Again - compared to NOT resigning him in the first place, the Rams are down $6.4 million in space. They would have had a cap hit of $11.6 million, but regained $5.2 million of that by trading him. Hence, signing him cost them the accelerated signing bonus hit for 2018.

 

[1maGoh]

what he's saying is if they didn't extend ogletree last season and just let him walk the rams would have an extra $6.4m in cap space than they have right now. then again they wouldn't have an extra 4th and 6th round pick in the upcoming draft. which do you think the rams prefer?

.

That's not what he said he's saying. But I get that view, even though we're only out 4.8 million this year not 6.4. Honestly, given his bad run defense, I'm ok with taking chances on the draft.

 

[LesBaker]

Did they pick What off first?

Who?

 

[1maGoh]

Again - compared to NOT resigning him in the first place, the Rams are down $6.4 million in space. They would have had a cap hit of $11.6 million, but regained $5.2 million of that by trading him. Hence, signing him cost them the accelerated signing bonus hit for 2018.

Ah, I see. But we're only paying him 4.8 this year. So we're only down 4.8 this year. I don't see how we can be short more cap space than we're paying him. I get that the numbers change around a lot since we traded him, but we're only paying 4.8 so we can only be short 4.8 compared to not paying him.

 

[RamFan503]

Freed up 5+MIL from what I read on here and I trust our posters.

exceptthatbastagewiththe503inhisname.

OF his roughly $11 million contract - the rest is still a cap hit for a player we no longer have. So we added $5 million in caps space but created a hole that we are still paying for in addition to whatever we pay for the hole filler.

 

[RamFan503]

Who?

Isn't he on third?

 

[Akrasian]

Ah, I see. But we're only paying him 4.8 this year. So we're only down 4.8 this year. I don't see how we can be short more cap space than we're paying him. I get that the numbers change around a lot since we traded him, but we're only paying 4.8 so we can only be short 4.8 compared to not paying him.

Actually, we aren't paying him anything this year. The Rams gave him an $8million signing bonus last season, which counts 1/5 each season - so $1.6 million per each of the 5 years. However, when a player is traded, the entire signing bonus that hasn't already been accounted for against the cap counts for that league year. So $1.6 million counted in 2017. $1.6 million WAS supposed to count in 2018 (plus the $10 million salary and roster bonus for 2018). But with the speeding up of the cap hit, all of the remaining $6.4 million counts in 2018.

It doesn't matter when the money was paid - what matters is when it reduces the Rams' cap hit.

 

[OldSchool]

Again - compared to NOT resigning him in the first place, the Rams are down $6.4 million in space. They would have had a cap hit of $11.6 million, but regained $5.2 million of that by trading him. Hence, signing him cost them the accelerated signing bonus hit for 2018.

Technically the signing bonus was in 2017 when the contract was signed. We didn’t pay any money right now we just had a book keeping rule making us show it on the books right now.

 

[Akrasian]

Technically the signing bonus was in 2017 when the contract was signed. We didn’t pay areany money right now we just had a book keeping rule making us show it on the books right now.

I know. I doubt anybody cares except Kroenke and the players when the money is actually paid out. As fans, what matters is when the cap hit occurs, since that is what limits roster moves.

 

[OldSchool]

I know. I doubt anybody cares except Kroenke and the players when the money is actually paid out. As fans, what matters is when the cap hit occurs, since that is what limits roster moves.

Yup and because of the trade the cap hit is lower.

 

[Ram65]

After game 5. And as to his regressing.... He had 54 tackles in five games before the contract - only 22 more over the next 7 games leading into his elbow injury. So I would say that 54 tackles in 5 games is a pretty blistering pace and would lead one to believe he was going to continue growing in the new system. But then the bottom fell out. I don't know if he was nicked up or teams figured they could run at him or....? But finishing the last 12 games with 41 tackles sure does indicate that he was regressing. And yes - I realize there was some time off for the injury - but he was only averaging 3 tackles a game in the 7 games leading up to it. That's not good for an ILB.

I liked Tree and had high hopes based on what he had done with us before. This season was a big frustration as it was I'm sure for the Rams Front Office.

Wow that is some drop off. Nice research. A bit puzzling drop off. At least the Rams acted quickly after the new contract deal. Tree is a frustrating player. Lots of talent but, somehow could not be consistent and elevate to near the top level at his position.

 

[LesBaker]

Isn't he on third?

It's a classic bit and some of our younger members probably aren't aware of it. @1maGoh is probably saying "I wish the two old fucks would stop hijacking this thread it's upsetting me, and my Emotional Support Animal is at the spa."

Though this is also brilliant comedy.