Rams trying to work out a long term deal with CB Trumaine Johnson?

[PARAM]

Sure Talib money is only 26 Million guaranteed money. That's the range I stated 26-36 Million. You had him guaranteed money at 36-45 Million. I was trying to come up with numbers that are fair to everyone. In the end we agree it's probably going to be the one year deal this year and then he finds out his market value.

The Talib money was 2014. There's been 3 more free agency periods. Vontae Davis got 4/36 with 20 mil GT and Cromartie got 5/35 with 13 mil GT. Those numbers have gone up in 3 years.....for "top" corners. And whether we agree on Johnson being or not being a "top" CB, he believes he is as I'm sure his agent does. Chris Culliver (who?) got 4/32 with 16 mil GT in 2015 (Revis' year). JJ got 5/62.5 with 26 GT two years ago.

Like I said, the Rams let JJ go basically saying they'd rather franchise TruJo (in Tru's mind meaning the 'better' CB) and two years later Tru isn't going to accept 26 mil or probably not 36 mil. He may want close to what the top guy got this year.....40 mil GT. And next year it'll only go up, especially if he has a stellar year under Phillips. I concur with Den....would love to have him at an affordable price but I fear that's out the window.

I'm just settling for the idea, enjoy a good year from TruJo hopefully helping us have a winning year/possible playoff berth and move on. A plan to replace him in 2018 with a 2017 draft pick sounds good to me.

 

[dieterbrock]

It's in his best interest to get a big deal with a lot of guaranteed money. It's why players hate the franchise tag. Tru doesn't exactly have a great injury history.

IMO that would have been the compelling arguement last year. Now that he's sitting on 31 mill guaranteed for 2 years he can afford more risk.
I just don't think it's in players DNA to be worried about injury or poor play costing them money.

 

[TexasRam]

Regardless you have to go CB this year most likely in the 3rd round because of the depth you might even grab another in the 6th...Tru did not have Jenkins for the first time last season and was not as strong point blank...Touch decision here both @FRO & @PARAM compelling arguments as to should he stay or should he go? IMHO, if Tru and his team has come down to earth and wants to agree to a cap friendly deal then sign him otherwise bid him adieu and stay young at this position, but I would not be upset if Tru signed a long term deal because I believe Wade Phillips could be to Trumaine Johnson what Mike Martz was to Isaac Bruce.

Well not to split hairs but, Bruce best year was in '95. Way before Martz came on the scene 119 Rec 1781 yards and 13 TD's (all career highs). Unreal stats actually.

Just making sure we realize how good he was on his own since he's up for the Hall and stuff

Maybe a good comparison of Wade for Tru would be Asshole Face with Bree's. Or say, Bill Walsh system for Steve Young. Or Greg Williams system for Marc Barron. Ther ya go

 

[Dxmissile]

Yeah ... but if the Rams offer him in the 12.5-14 mil. range and he DOESN'T hit the marks .. well ... he over played his hand not to sign the new deal. He obviously didn't hit those #'s last season. His play dropped off. So he really is going to gamble himself IF he plays out under the contract and the Rams offer him the $13-14 mil per range. Cause then he hits the market next yr under performing. I think it is within both teams interest to get a FAIR deal done now.

If I'm an athlete playing football I want guaranteed money. Under the tag he is looking at about 30 million guaranteed in 2 yrs. Any deal he sign is going to be about 30 million guaranteed that's fair market rate but what he wants from the rams is probably 40 million guaranteed he has no incentive to resign with the team when he know he can at least get 30 million guaranteed somewhere else next season

 

[dieterbrock]

If I'm an athlete playing football I want guaranteed money. Under the tag he is looking at about 30 million guaranteed in 2 yrs. Any deal he sign is going to be about 30 million guaranteed that's fair market rate but what he wants from the rams is probably 40 million guaranteed he has no incentive to resign with the team when he know he can at least get 30 million guaranteed somewhere else next season

Hard to believe I disagreed with you on this at one point....

 

[Rams43]

Yeah, I think jrry32 nailed it. It's in Tru's best interest to lock up a ton of guaranteed money while he's healthy. His injury record is not a good one and it could very well bite him in the butt come next offseason at the worst possible time.

And den made a great point, too. It would be a wise career move for Tru to play in a Wade Phillips D. Such opportunities don't come around that often. Might elevate him into annual Pro Bowl status. Definitely a resume enhancer, huh?

If I were Tru's father, I would strongly recommend that he sign the best available Ram contract offer with tons of guaranteed money for 4-5 years duration. Ascending team, promising coaches, great city. Seriously, to do otherwise seems foolishly short sighted.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I opened this thread thinking, man we must have gave him a contract....Then I read all the comments...I saw someone describe Tru as a "warrior"....

A few months ago, a bunch in here were all discussing did we quit as a team...Was the team playing hard....and several have stated that they believed some of the players were "dogging" it...I'm sure several read my comments on the situation.
I bring this up because I want some of you that wish to sign Tru to a long term deal...Look at ONE game...the last game of the season...the Arizona game....and watch Tru....specifically his tackling...and tell me you want a guy like this...in your foxhole?

IMO, Tru was making "business decisions" on his play long before that final game. And that culture we keep talking about in here, well it starts to change when you release players like this. In fact, tagging him sends a bad message. Extending him...oh geez!?!?!

 

[JackDRams]

If I'm an athlete playing football I want guaranteed money. Under the tag he is looking at about 30 million guaranteed in 2 yrs. Any deal he sign is going to be about 30 million guaranteed that's fair market rate but what he wants from the rams is probably 40 million guaranteed he has no incentive to resign with the team when he know he can at least get 30 million guaranteed somewhere else next season

And if he sustains a career ending injury this year? He's guaranteed zero million dollars next year. 30 million guaranteed sounds great when you're comparing it to nothing. But how about $15 million guaranteed from last year or whatever the number is, plus another 30-35 million on an extension? I'll take 45-50 million guaranteed over 30 million any day of the week.

 

[Merlin]

A few months ago, a bunch in here were all discussing did we quit as a team...Was the team playing hard....and several have stated that they believed some of the players were "dogging" it...I'm sure several read my comments on the situation.
I bring this up because I want some of you that wish to sign Tru to a long term deal...Look at ONE game...the last game of the season...the Arizona game....and watch Tru....specifically his tackling...and tell me you want a guy like this...in your foxhole?

I don't hold it against Tru that he's made out very well in all this. But yeah I prefer to let him play this season under the tag. The tag is not a problem, but signing him to a long term elite deal probably will be.

Rams need to offer him money they think he deserves, which I am sure will be a tier below the elite money. If he doesn't want to do it, write him off as a loss and let him play on the one year deal. He'll break the bank with another team after having a fine season under Wade, but the Rams will be just fine.

Rams have the coaching now on both sides of the ball to maximize talent. They're gonna be just fine without Trumaine, even after he walks after the season with only round 3 compensation.

 

[Ram65]

The Talib money was 2014. There's been 3 more free agency periods. Vontae Davis got 4/36 with 20 mil GT and Cromartie got 5/35 with 13 mil GT. Those numbers have gone up in 3 years.....for "top" corners. And whether we agree on Johnson being or not being a "top" CB, he believes he is as I'm sure his agent does. Chris Culliver (who?) got 4/32 with 16 mil GT in 2015 (Revis' year). JJ got 5/62.5 with 26 GT two years ago.

Like I said, the Rams let JJ go basically saying they'd rather franchise TruJo (in Tru's mind meaning the 'better' CB) and two years later Tru isn't going to accept 26 mil or probably not 36 mil. He may want close to what the top guy got this year.....40 mil GT. And next year it'll only go up, especially if he has a stellar year under Phillips. I concur with Den....would love to have him at an affordable price but I fear that's out the window.

I'm just settling for the idea, enjoy a good year from TruJo hopefully helping us have a winning year/possible playoff berth and move on. A plan to replace him in 2018 with a 2017 draft pick sounds good to me.

You used Talib as an example. This year AJ Bouye got 26 Million guaranteed for 5 year deal while Stephon Gilmore got 40 Million guaranteed for 5 year deal at 13.5 M per year and 13.0M per year respectively. This years deals are 26M and 40M guaranteed money. If Tru is asking for 40M guaranteed I don't see the Rams paying it. Looks like Tru is going to have to prove his worth after a down year last year. He and his agent may think he is a top cornerback but, I don't think anyone else does. I also concur with Den that I would love to have him at an affordable/reasonable price. However, if he is thinking the way you say he is then I don't see it happening either.

 

[OldSchool]

IMO that would have been the compelling arguement last year. Now that he's sitting on 31 mill guaranteed for 2 years he can afford more risk.
I just don't think it's in players DNA to be worried about injury or poor play costing them money.

Listening to players and former players I disagree. The number one thing they say is everybody needs to get their money as fast as they can and as much as they can.

 

[den-the-coach]

Well not to split hairs but, Bruce best year was in '95. Way before Martz came on the scene 119 Rec 1781 yards and 13 TD's (all career highs). Unreal stats actually.

I gotcha Tex...The Ram WR Coach under Rich Brooks back in 1995....Mike Martz.

 

[BonifayRam]

I'll say this I am off the opinion that Tru will play this season without a future contract. Tru will bolt from LA Then hit the FA market in 2018 after having added a very strong 2017 season from playing in the Rams new Wade Defense.

Thus as the Rams GM I am pushing heavy on drafting TWO future outside Corners in this 2017 draft! I am planing to replace Trumaine Johnson as starting corner so I can be in a strong position to sign Aaron Donald & Alex Ogletree to long term contracts. Plus be in a position to consider starters OSLB'er Conner Barwin, Dom Easley & Ethan Westbrooks.

 

[Dxmissile]

And if he sustains a career ending injury this year? He's guaranteed zero million dollars next year. 30 million guaranteed sounds great when you're comparing it to nothing. But how about $15 million guaranteed from last year or whatever the number is, plus another 30-35 million on an extension? I'll take 45-50 million guaranteed over 30 million any day of the week.

Definitely not saying it's not a risk but what you are talking about is a very unlikely scenario. He don't have a history of concussion never had anything torn or any major surgeries. So I would take the risk. He already earned his entire rookie deal plus the 30 million off the tag. So yes even if that mean me protecting my body so I can make sure I get a long term deal next year. Even if it's with the Rams if I'm Tru and his agent my thoughts would be to play out this tag

 

[jap]

Well not to split hairs but, Bruce best year was in '95. Way before Martz came on the scene 119 Rec 1781 yards and 13 TD's (all career highs). Unreal stats actually.

Just making sure we realize how good he was on his own since he's up for the Hall and stuff

Actually, Mike Martz was the WR coach for the Rams (1992 to 1994) before he moved on to become the QB coach at Washington, His coaching of Isaac in Bruce's rookie season (1994) helped set the stage for his sophomore explosion in 1995. Isaac certainly credited Mad Mike with his [Isaac's] development and was openly overjoyed when Mike returned as OC in 1999.

 

[jap]

Actually, Mike Martz was the WR coach for the Rams (1992 to 1994) before he moved on to become the QB coach at Washington, His coaching of Isaac in Bruce's rookie season (1994) helped set the stage for his sophomore explosion in 1995. Isaac certainly credited Mad Mike with his [Isaac's] development and was openly overjoyed when Mike returned as OC in 1999.

OK, I screwed up above. My memory isn't as good as I though it was.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Martz:

"In 1992 Martz was hired as quarterback coach for the Los Angeles Rams and held that post through 1994. In 1995, when team moved to St. Louis he was hired as wide receivers coach in 1995-96. Under his teaching Isaac Bruce exploded onto the NFL scene, going from 21 receptions in 1994 to 119 and 1781 yards in 1995. And Bruce was voted to his first Pro Bowl in 1996.

Martz left the Rams in 1997 to become quarterback coach at the Washington Redskins and helped develop Trent Green, who signed to be Rams QB in 1999, the season Martz was hired to be the offensive coordinator."

 

[majrleaged]

I am trying,
but i had to ditch my favorite avatar
And..... I just think we got stuck with the "Fisher" guy in Tru (Montana) instead of the more talented player in JJ

I think it had more to do with Demoff thinking he could get Tru cheaper. The coaching staff loved JJ.

 

[jrry32]

IMO that would have been the compelling arguement last year. Now that he's sitting on 31 mill guaranteed for 2 years he can afford more risk.
I just don't think it's in players DNA to be worried about injury or poor play costing them money.

You'd be amazed at how quickly some of these guys burn through money.

 

[TexasRam]

I gotcha Tex...The Ram WR Coach under Rich Brooks back in 1995....Mike Martz.

Hahaha Touché bro. Nice comeback.

You recovered that one and took it to the House!

 

[TexasRam]

OK, I screwed up above. My memory isn't as good as I though it was.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Martz:

"In 1992 Martz was hired as quarterback coach for the Los Angeles Rams and held that post through 1994. In 1995, when team moved to St. Louis he was hired as wide receivers coach in 1995-96. Under his teaching Isaac Bruce exploded onto the NFL scene, going from 21 receptions in 1994 to 119 and 1781 yards in 1995. And Bruce was voted to his first Pro Bowl in 1996.

Martz left the Rams in 1997 to become quarterback coach at the Washington Redskins and helped develop Trent Green, who signed to be Rams QB in 1999, the season Martz was hired to be the offensive coordinator."

Most rookie Wr's, especially 2nd rounders struggle for playing time while learning the ropes. They commonly break out in year 2. Which is what Issac did.

Bruce's natural talent and smooth route running, accelerating through cuts is something you are born with.... or not.

How many other Wr's under Martz had a huge jump in production after he left the Rams and went elsewhere?

Honest question.