Raiders’ Vegas stadium could hit hurdle

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London59

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Now that im a bit older im starting to finally pay attention to people running for offices etc. Somewhat and it amazes me some people that run. I can understand his concern for education etc. But dont you think the extra travelling, commerce, and outside money brought because of the stadium would help reforms financially? Thats not including events or a potential super bowl there. Smh never understand people.

A study was done and it has shown the costs of stadiums from taxpayers is never recovered! It is a boom for the billionaire owners and obviously some contractors, but the tax payer never sees the full ROI. I live in Vegas and the roads are already in awful shape and as noted our education is God awful. Many here are also quite concerned with the garbage Raider fans that will come to town. Hells Angels, gang bangers, and a ridiculous number of people that simply feel fighting is how you show you are a fan. I pay an HOA fee to pay for roads in my community. Why can’t a billionaire owner pay for the roads that service his already tax payer funded building?
 

London59

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A study was done and it has shown the costs of stadiums from taxpayers is never recovered! It is a boom for the billionaire owners and obviously some contractors, but the tax payer never sees the full ROI. I live in Vegas and the roads are already in awful shape and as noted our education is God awful. Many here are also quite concerned with the garbage Raider fans that will come to town. Hells Angels, gang bangers, and a ridiculous number of people that simply feel fighting is how you show you are a fan. I pay an HOA fee to pay for roads in my community. Why can’t a billionaire owner pay for the roads that service his already tax payer funded building?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffre...-stadiums-are-a-game-that-taxpayers-lose/amp/
 

Corbin

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A study was done and it has shown the costs of stadiums from taxpayers is never recovered! It is a boom for the billionaire owners and obviously some contractors, but the tax payer never sees the full ROI. I live in Vegas and the roads are already in awful shape and as noted our education is God awful. Many here are also quite concerned with the garbage Raider fans that will come to town. Hells Angels, gang bangers, and a ridiculous number of people that simply feel fighting is how you show you are a fan. I pay an HOA fee to pay for roads in my community. Why can’t a billionaire owner pay for the roads that service his already tax payer funded building?
Hahaha So gang bangers can afford to go to Las Vegas and afford tickets to a game, hotel, and travel? Remind me how many Hells Angels show up to Raiders games now? Do they usually have bike rallies to Raiders games? My concern is using my frequent flyer miles and the plane is ALWAYS loaded with gang bangers. STAHP. I've been to two Oakland games in Oakland sporting a Rams jersey and NEVER even had somebody say a word about my jersey or to me. As opposed to going to a Cardinals game where there is a minimum of 3 fights I've seen every time.

Also, which study are you citing? The one from 1997? 2005? Kinda outdated but let me give you more accurate and more current info.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/super-bowl-benefits-host-city-but-by-how-much.html
In 2015,
"Last year's Super Bowl (played in Glendale but with Scottsdale and Phoenix hosting events) produced a gross economic impact of $719.4 million for the entire state, according to a study from Seidman Research Institute and the School of Business at Arizona State University."

and Minnesota's SB hosting?
https://www.verdict.co.uk/super-bowl-revenue/
"In total, Minnesota has estimated that as much as $338m could be spent in the city next month thanks to the Super Bowl."

1. Let's say NOT including anything else but if that stadium hosts 2 SB's in 15 years it comes close to paying for the public costs of 750 million. So you can earn money back from a stadium.

2. If your going to prevent the center of the gambling universe having a team and hosting events and all the money it brings to your state AS A GOVERNOR CANDIDATE YOU ARE A MORON. Especially if that stadium is already being built.

3. Also, if education and the roads in Nevada are that egregious and a stadium is going to STOP the already horrible roads and education system the problem isn't with something that will bring revenue and tourism to the state, but THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND FINANCIAL SPENDING IN NEVADA FOR YEARS PAST.
 
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OldSchool

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Hahaha So gang bangers can afford to go to Las Vegas and afford tickets to a game, hotel, and travel? Remind me how many Hells Angels show up to Raiders games now? Do they usually have bike rallies to Raiders games? My concern is using my frequent flyer miles and the plane is ALWAYS loaded with gang bangers. STAHP. I've been to two Oakland games in Oakland sporting a Rams jersey and NEVER even had somebody say a word about my jersey or to me. As opposed to going to a Cardinals game where there is a minimum of 3 fights I've seen every time.

Also, which study are you citing? The one from 1997? 2005? Kinda outdated but let me give you more accurate and more current info.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/super-bowl-benefits-host-city-but-by-how-much.html
In 2015,
"Last year's Super Bowl (played in Glendale but with Scottsdale and Phoenix hosting events) produced a gross economic impact of $719.4 million for the entire state, according to a study from Seidman Research Institute and the School of Business at Arizona State University."

and Minnesota's SB hosting?
https://www.verdict.co.uk/super-bowl-revenue/
"In total, Minnesota has estimated that as much as $338m could be spent in the city next month thanks to the Super Bowl."

1. Let's say NOT including anything else but if that stadium hosts 2 SB's in 15 years it comes close to paying for the public costs of 750 million. So you can earn money back from a stadium.

2. If your going to prevent the center of the gambling universe having a team and hosting events and all the money it brings to your state AS A GOVERNOR CANDIDATE YOU ARE A MORON. Especially if that stadium is already being built.

3. Also, if education and the roads in Nevada are that egregious and a stadium is going to STOP the already horrible roads and education system the problem isn't with something that will bring revenue and tourism to the state, but THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND FINANCIAL SPENDING IN NEVADA FOR YEARS PAST.
Yeah the notion that stadiums don't earn money is kind of naive. Minnesota as you point out made a ton of money hosting just one Super Bowl and the construction of the stadium cost the state less than $600k. The way the NFL works now it's going to give each new stadium at least one if not more Super Bowls to host. I still would prefer owners pay their own way but saying stadiums don't produce NFL revenue isn't accurate.
 

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And you totally ignore money going into locals pockets generated by the stadium. You have an agenda and are simply bending facts to support it, which is your right.

I provided a link earlier to Zimbalist, who has done multiple studies on the economics of stadiums. Net effect - they don't contribute enough to the local economy to pay back any significant subsidies. Especially if the stadium is luxurious, that is poor spending for the municipality. Money that locals spend at the stadium they are likely to have spent elsewhere in town. Instead, the money goes into the pockets of millionaires or billionaires, who tend not to actually live locally.

The idea that Vegas economics work differently is the bending of facts - or actually, not even attempting facts.
 

Corbin

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Yeah the notion that stadiums don't earn money is kind of naive. Minnesota as you point out made a ton of money hosting just one Super Bowl and the construction of the stadium cost the state less than $600k. The way the NFL works now it's going to give each new stadium at least one if not more Super Bowls to host. I still would prefer owners pay their own way but saying stadiums don't produce NFL revenue isn't accurate.
Totally agree, especially in today’s market place and economics. I knew those classes would be handy some day! :D
I also agree those bastards should be footing more of a bill for ‘their’ teams stadium. It’s mind blowing that they get that much funds.
 

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Of course, Vegas wasn't built on taxpayer subsidies, but private (laundered money) investments. And if the stadium makes sense, especially in its elaborate version, then it can be built without massive subsidies. You know, like in LA.

My friend the point I was trying to make is those articles on how stadiums are financial black holes is drawn off cities not named Vegas. I'm not saying the stadium will do something miraculous, but if there were ever a place where a stadium might debunk that stuff it's the city of dreams. Most cities, simply put, are not premium destinations for just about every convention you can think about, let alone the concert, boxing, MMA, etc., etc., etc.

I think people are going to be shocked at how successful that stadium is in Vegas. And some of them will be the transplanted Californians infecting our city who are the group that moron politician is trying to side with. You know, the ones trying to make it just like California despite the fact they flew the F out of the coop.
 

Mackeyser

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The US NAVY experimented with Windows NT on a sub. Ran everything including propulsion. It was a nuclear sub, obviously, but I don’t think the reactor used the software so they could make water and electricity but couldn’t get it to reboot.

The OS crashed at sea and the sub became multi-billion dollar bobber for three days until a salvage ship could get on scene and tow it to the nearest port.

Never trust Windows when death is on the line...
 

London59

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Hahaha So gang bangers can afford to go to Las Vegas and afford tickets to a game, hotel, and travel? Remind me how many Hells Angels show up to Raiders games now? Do they usually have bike rallies to Raiders games? My concern is using my frequent flyer miles and the plane is ALWAYS loaded with gang bangers. STAHP. I've been to two Oakland games in Oakland sporting a Rams jersey and NEVER even had somebody say a word about my jersey or to me. As opposed to going to a Cardinals game where there is a minimum of 3 fights I've seen every time.

Also, which study are you citing? The one from 1997? 2005? Kinda outdated but let me give you more accurate and more current info.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/super-bowl-benefits-host-city-but-by-how-much.html
In 2015,
"Last year's Super Bowl (played in Glendale but with Scottsdale and Phoenix hosting events) produced a gross economic impact of $719.4 million for the entire state, according to a study from Seidman Research Institute and the School of Business at Arizona State University."

and Minnesota's SB hosting?
https://www.verdict.co.uk/super-bowl-revenue/
"In total, Minnesota has estimated that as much as $338m could be spent in the city next month thanks to the Super Bowl."

1. Let's say NOT including anything else but if that stadium hosts 2 SB's in 15 years it comes close to paying for the public costs of 750 million. So you can earn money back from a stadium.

2. If your going to prevent the center of the gambling universe having a team and hosting events and all the money it brings to your state AS A GOVERNOR CANDIDATE YOU ARE A MORON. Especially if that stadium is already being built.

3. Also, if education and the roads in Nevada are that egregious and a stadium is going to STOP the already horrible roads and education system the problem isn't with something that will bring revenue and tourism to the state, but THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND FINANCIAL SPENDING IN NEVADA FOR YEARS PAST.



Hahaha So gang bangers can afford to go to Las Vegas and afford tickets to a game, hotel, and travel? Remind me how many Hells Angels show up to Raiders games now? Do they usually have bike rallies to Raiders games? My concern is using my frequent flyer miles and the plane is ALWAYS loaded with gang bangers. STAHP. I've been to two Oakland games in Oakland sporting a Rams jersey and NEVER even had somebody say a word about my jersey or to me. As opposed to going to a Cardinals game where there is a minimum of 3 fights I've seen every time.

Also, which study are you citing? The one from 1997? 2005? Kinda outdated but let me give you more accurate and more current info.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/super-bowl-benefits-host-city-but-by-how-much.html
In 2015,
"Last year's Super Bowl (played in Glendale but with Scottsdale and Phoenix hosting events) produced a gross economic impact of $719.4 million for the entire state, according to a study from Seidman Research Institute and the School of Business at Arizona State University."

and Minnesota's SB hosting?
https://www.verdict.co.uk/super-bowl-revenue/
"In total, Minnesota has estimated that as much as $338m could be spent in the city next month thanks to the Super Bowl."

1. Let's say NOT including anything else but if that stadium hosts 2 SB's in 15 years it comes close to paying for the public costs of 750 million. So you can earn money back from a stadium.

2. If your going to prevent the center of the gambling universe having a team and hosting events and all the money it brings to your state AS A GOVERNOR CANDIDATE YOU ARE A MORON. Especially if that stadium is already being built.

3. Also, if education and the roads in Nevada are that egregious and a stadium is going to STOP the already horrible roads and education system the problem isn't with something that will bring revenue and tourism to the state, but THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND FINANCIAL SPENDING IN NEVADA FOR YEARS PAST.

The study I cited was from 2015. Not sure where you get your timeline. As far as attending Raider games. You and I had a different experience although we both watched a game in Arizona. I sat with Raider fans and 2 fights broke out even though it was a Pre season game. 1st fight was indeed people dressed in biker gear. (Not Hells Angels but they were bikers) 2nd fight was hispanics and they looked pretty young. Then a guy wearing a Broncos jersey had drinks chucked at him as he was walking up the stairs.

Finally, you make it sound like attending a game costs a million dollars. A group can get together and share gas costs to drive from LA to LAS for probably $20 each. Single game tickets can be purchased for under $100. Low end hotels in Vegas can be $59 and split that up and they can have a weekend in Vegas with a Raider game for $150 plus a few bucks for food and drinks. You don’t have to be elite to attend one game. I work with a Niner fan who grew up in the Bay Area and he said we are in for it with Raider fans. We joke with him that he is the whitest black guy around and that he has no street credibility, and he just says, wait till they play and we will see.
 
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London59

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Hahaha So gang bangers can afford to go to Las Vegas and afford tickets to a game, hotel, and travel? Remind me how many Hells Angels show up to Raiders games now? Do they usually have bike rallies to Raiders games? My concern is using my frequent flyer miles and the plane is ALWAYS loaded with gang bangers. STAHP. I've been to two Oakland games in Oakland sporting a Rams jersey and NEVER even had somebody say a word about my jersey or to me. As opposed to going to a Cardinals game where there is a minimum of 3 fights I've seen every time.

Also, which study are you citing? The one from 1997? 2005? Kinda outdated but let me give you more accurate and more current info.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/super-bowl-benefits-host-city-but-by-how-much.html
In 2015,
"Last year's Super Bowl (played in Glendale but with Scottsdale and Phoenix hosting events) produced a gross economic impact of $719.4 million for the entire state, according to a study from Seidman Research Institute and the School of Business at Arizona State University."

and Minnesota's SB hosting?
https://www.verdict.co.uk/super-bowl-revenue/
"In total, Minnesota has estimated that as much as $338m could be spent in the city next month thanks to the Super Bowl."

1. Let's say NOT including anything else but if that stadium hosts 2 SB's in 15 years it comes close to paying for the public costs of 750 million. So you can earn money back from a stadium.

2. If your going to prevent the center of the gambling universe having a team and hosting events and all the money it brings to your state AS A GOVERNOR CANDIDATE YOU ARE A MORON. Especially if that stadium is already being built.

3. Also, if education and the roads in Nevada are that egregious and a stadium is going to STOP the already horrible roads and education system the problem isn't with something that will bring revenue and tourism to the state, but THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND FINANCIAL SPENDING IN NEVADA FOR YEARS PAST.


Here’s another report

https://research.stlouisfed.org/pub...the-economics-of-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/
 

London59

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Hahaha So gang bangers can afford to go to Las Vegas and afford tickets to a game, hotel, and travel? Remind me how many Hells Angels show up to Raiders games now? Do they usually have bike rallies to Raiders games? My concern is using my frequent flyer miles and the plane is ALWAYS loaded with gang bangers. STAHP. I've been to two Oakland games in Oakland sporting a Rams jersey and NEVER even had somebody say a word about my jersey or to me. As opposed to going to a Cardinals game where there is a minimum of 3 fights I've seen every time.

Also, which study are you citing? The one from 1997? 2005? Kinda outdated but let me give you more accurate and more current info.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/super-bowl-benefits-host-city-but-by-how-much.html
In 2015,
"Last year's Super Bowl (played in Glendale but with Scottsdale and Phoenix hosting events) produced a gross economic impact of $719.4 million for the entire state, according to a study from Seidman Research Institute and the School of Business at Arizona State University."

and Minnesota's SB hosting?
https://www.verdict.co.uk/super-bowl-revenue/
"In total, Minnesota has estimated that as much as $338m could be spent in the city next month thanks to the Super Bowl."

1. Let's say NOT including anything else but if that stadium hosts 2 SB's in 15 years it comes close to paying for the public costs of 750 million. So you can earn money back from a stadium.

2. If your going to prevent the center of the gambling universe having a team and hosting events and all the money it brings to your state AS A GOVERNOR CANDIDATE YOU ARE A MORON. Especially if that stadium is already being built.

3. Also, if education and the roads in Nevada are that egregious and a stadium is going to STOP the already horrible roads and education system the problem isn't with something that will bring revenue and tourism to the state, but THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND FINANCIAL SPENDING IN NEVADA FOR YEARS PAST.

And yet another report

https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/
 

TSFH Fan

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Well, obviously, people are free to throw studies at each other all they want. IMO, it might help to see who or what is sponsoring/conducting each of the studies and/or how. For example, from 2014:

"We do have the NFL's reports from past years, though, which show similar numbers. Last year's Super Bowl in New Orleans, for example, was estimated to generate $480 million in local spending, generating $34.9 million in new local tax revenues, according to the NFL host committee's study. Read that study, and we find that to arrive at this figure, researchers simply surveyed Super Bowl attendees, asking them where they were from, whether they'd rented a hotel room, their total food expenses, and so on, then applying a multiplier to account for how fan spending then got re-spent in the local economy. (This multiplier ends up basically doubling the final economic impact number; more on that in a moment.)"
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/66544296/
More here: https://fair.org/home/the-super-bowl-windfall-myth/

As a side note, back when I was more interested in stadium financing, politicking, etc. I thought John Vrooman (Vanderbilt University) and Neil DeMause ( fieldofschemes.com ) were both very informative. They were both media go-to's back then.
Anyhow:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/sports/football/super-bowl-lii-minnesota.html
Windfall for Super Bowl Hosts? Economists Say It’s Overstated
By KEVIN DRAPER JAN. 29, 2018
merlin_132672047_581391cc-8e4a-459e-bcb9-576e4edf1739-master768.jpg

Taxpayers spent about $500 million on U.S. Bank Stadium in Minneapolis. Will hosting the Super Bowl help them recoup their investment?CreditTim Gruber for The New York Times

For more than a decade, the N.F.L. has offered a roughly nine-figure quid pro quo with American cities: Invest hundreds of millions of dollars of public money in a stadium, and a Super Bowl will come.

Seven N.F.L. stadiums have been built in the last 12 years. By 2020, all will have hosted the country’s biggest sporting spectacle. When new stadiums open near Los Angeles and in Las Vegas during the next decade, they will get a Super Bowl, too.

New stadiums, supported by as many public dollars as possible, have long been one of the league’s priorities. To get funds for them, the N.F.L. dangles the prospect of playing host to a Super Bowl and its promised riches.

Depending on what, exactly, constitutes a public dollar, taxpayers contribute an average of about $250 million to build N.F.L. stadiums, according to the advisory firm Conventions, Sports & Leisure International. For U.S. Bank Stadium in Minneapolis — which opened in 2016 and will host the Super Bowl on Sunday — the state of Minnesota spent $348 million and the city kicked in an additional $150 million, a bit less than 50 percent of the stadium’s total cost.

An economic impact report commissioned by the Minneapolis Super Bowl Host Committee stated that much of the taxpayer investment in the stadium would be recouped by the region during the event. It estimated that the Super Bowl would contribute $343 million to the region, including $29 million in tax revenue.

“We are taking a conservative approach with the numbers,” Michael Langley, the chief executive of the Minneapolis-St. Paul economic development agency, said. “But even if you are only talking about $350 million to $400 million, that’s a huge benefit to the community, just in terms of dollars spent in February.”

merlin_53217468_cea0db6d-ffc3-4c3e-a7d5-5f33e4ce9865-blog427.jpg

When Indianapolis hosted the Super Bowl in 2012, workers installed a large image of the Lombardi Trophy on a downtown hotel.CreditPeter W. Stevenson for The New York Times

Sports economists don’t view the situation quite the same way. They said the economic impact study for the Minneapolis Super Bowl began by saying all the right things about how past estimates had “been criticized as extremely overinflated, inaccurate, even purposely misrepresented.” In the end, though, it did the same thing.

“They always talk really good about that stuff, and then they go off the rails,” said Victor A. Matheson, a sports economist at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Mass.

Matheson has written extensively about the effect of Super Bowls. He has found that they usually generate anywhere from $30 million to $130 million in economic activity for the host city.

“Not nothing, and not what you would sneeze at,” he said, “but somewhere between a quarter and a tenth of what is being claimed.”

Take hotel rooms, for example. To host the Super Bowl, Minneapolis had to show that there were at least 24,000 of them within 60 minutes of the stadium, capable of accommodating visitors during the entire 10-day Super Bowl celebration. Accordingly, the economic impact report estimates the Super Bowl will generate 230,000 nights of hotel stays.

But if the Super Bowl were not in town, many of those hotel rooms would have been filled anyway, by business travelers, conventiongoers and — yes, even in Minnesota in the dead of winter — tourists. It is the net occupancy gain, not gross occupancy, that matters, said Frank Stephenson, an economist at Berry College in Mount Berry, Ga.

29supercity-web3-master675.jpg

The New England Patriots at Lucas Oil Stadium for the Super Bowl in 2012. They will face the Philadelphia Eagles in this season’s Super Bowl on Sunday in Minneapolis.CreditChang W. Lee/The New York Times

Stephenson has studied hotel occupancy extensively, using a source of daily data that includes things like the number of rooms rented and the daily rate. This allows him to estimate how many hotel rooms in a region would usually be booked and for what price, and compare that with when the Super Bowl comes to town.

In a forthcoming paper, Stephenson examines the 2012 Indianapolis Super Bowl, which generated 224,000 hotel stays, according to its economic impact report. Indianapolis serves as an apt comparison to Minneapolis since it is a cold-weather city in the Midwest. Actually, in the week leading up to the Super Bowl and the three days afterward, Indianapolis hotels rented an additional 49,000 rooms compared with what would be expected, less than a quarter of the estimate.

The rooms cost more than they otherwise would, generating about $28 million in additional revenue. But Stephenson cautioned against assuming that the money had stayed in Indianapolis; in fact, there was heavy leakage.

“They don’t give it to the housekeeper or bellboy or front-desk person,” he said. “A lot of it just flows to whoever owns the hotel.”

R. T. Rybak was the mayor of Minneapolis for 12 years, including when the City Council narrowly approved contributing $150 million to build U.S. Bank Stadium. “I hate sports economics, but I love my city,” he said, “and we ended up crafting a deal that ended up being a financial bonanza for Minneapolis.”

He explained that in addition to helping build U.S. Bank Stadium, the deal also fixed up the Target Center arena and provided funds to operate the convention center. It also spurred Wells Fargo to build two office towers near the stadium and has led to immense development in the Downtown East neighborhood, though the construction mirrors a trend seen across the country and cannot be credited simply to construction of the new stadium.


“I would not have done a deal just for the football stadium,” Rybak said, adding, “You don’t build a stadium for the Super Bowl.”

Good thing he didn’t. When cities bid to host the Super Bowl, they agree to an extensive list of specifications, which include providing goods and services worth millions of dollars to the N.F.L., all at no cost to the league. The Star Tribune of Minneapolis obtained a copy of the 153-page bid book the N.F.L. sent to prospective hosts, and the bid committee told The Star Tribune it had agreed to a majority of the conditions laid out, thought it did not specify what it had rejected.

The bid book shows the host city must provide the N.F.L. with 35,000 parking spaces, thousands of hotel rooms, hundreds of buses and limousines, billboards, security, food and an exemption on paying all sales taxes, among hundreds of other specifications.

The phrase “at no cost to the N.F.L.” appears in the book 65 times.

All of these costs, at least in theory, are borne by the host committee. Minneapolis raised $30 million in pledges from the private sector before even bidding on the Super Bowl. According to Langley, of the regional economic development agency, the committee has now raised more than $50 million to put on the game. Enough is budgeted to pay for police overtime, emergency snow removal or any other cost overruns, he said.

“This is a really professional group,” Langley said.

If so, it is the rare Super Bowl host committee that has budgeted for extras. The city of Santa Clara, Calif., had its costs to host the 2016 Super Bowl reimbursed, but the game cost nearby San Francisco almost $5 million, mostly in police and transit services. Mayor Jerry Weiers of Glendale, Ariz., told ESPN that the city lost money hosting the game in both 2015 and 2008. New Jersey gave the N.F.L. an $8 million tax break, and state-owned New Jersey Transit lost $5.6 million when the game was played there in 2014.

“All of the economic stuff, if you’re lucky, is going to wash,” Matheson said. He noted there was one big noneconomic justification for hosting the Super Bowl: happiness. “We actually do get measurable impact from people’s satisfaction right after a city has hosted the Olympics, Super Bowl or World Cup,” he said.

Perhaps, but is that the windfall Minnesota imagined when it spent $498 million on U.S. Bank Stadium?

Follow Kevin Draper on Twitter: @kevinmdraper.
 

OldSchool

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Try again, you linked nothing but an opinion piece not an actual study. Hell this right here alone proves it.

Building sports stadiums has an impact on local economies. For that reason, many people support the use of government subsidies to help pay for stadiums. However, economists generally oppose such subsidies. They often stress that estimations of the economic impact of sports stadiums are exaggerated because they fail to recognize opportunity costs. Consumers who spend money on sporting events would likely spend the money on other forms of entertainment, which has a similar economic impact. Rather than subsidizing sports stadiums, governments could finance other projects such as infrastructure or education that have the potential to increase productivity and promote economic growth.

So this so called study you cite says it has an impact on the local economies then throws out a huge opinionated BUT! That is nothing more than an op-ed. Both articles you listed are the same they're 100% opinions no numbers are weighed no statistics are introduced other than the bottom line costs to the public about the stadiums. Feel free to post actual studies instead of opinion editorials please.
 

Mackeyser

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Yeah, they still have the contracts, but they reverted to Unix.

I don't believe any US Nuke subs actually use Windows...and it'd be NT, not XP as NT is the server side software that has a "military grade" version or red book version (I always got the colors confused).

I suppose they've kept running trials, but I couldn't imagine trying to have my life in the hands of Windows NT.

I used to be a second level support engineer for NT, spent my days rebuilding crashed servers and answering calls the first tier support couldn't figure out.

Almost every event in life I missed because that F-ing beeper went off with some kind of server emergency.

I could hate NT, a product from Seattle, but it'd have to be wrapped in a 12 flag...
 

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"Gubernatorial" is a word now is it?
 

Corbin

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The study I cited was from 2015. Not sure where you get your timeline. As far as attending Raider games. You and I had a different experience although we both watched a game in Arizona. I sat with Raider fans and 2 fights broke out even though it was a Pre season game. 1st fight was indeed people dressed in biker gear. (Not Hells Angels but they were bikers) 2nd fight was hispanics and they looked pretty young. Then a guy wearing a Broncos jersey had drinks chucked at him as he was walking up the stairs.

Finally, you make it sound like attending a game costs a million dollars. A group can get together and share gas costs to drive from LA to LAS for probably $20 each. Single game tickets can be purchased for under $100. Low end hotels in Vegas can be $59 and split that up and they can have a weekend in Vegas with a Raider game for $150 plus a few bucks for food and drinks. You don’t have to be elite to attend one game. I work with a Niner fan who grew up in the Bay Area and he said we are in for it with Raider fans. We joke with him that he is the whitest black guy around and that he has no street credibility, and he just says, wait till they play and we will see.
I know this might be hard to imagine but ‘gangsters’ don’t have money to travel to go watch a game.

So guys in biker garb are hells angels now?

Also the articles you site don’t take into account any hosting events, only home and preseason games.
 

LACHAMP46

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having it built, then denying it infrastructure as a way of throwing a hissy fit - that is insane.
There's this huge blue skyscraper on the strip...it was being built several years ago...but construction just stop...someone told me, the builder/company ran out of money...now the windows are falling out...and they are supposed to just tear it down...it's still standing last time I went and I believe it was being worked on in 2012....Vegas is a crazy kinda fun.....that building is HUGE...everyone that drives down the 15 probably knows which one I'm talking about....who builds that type of structure and can't finish it????
 

Merlin

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There's this huge blue skyscraper on the strip...it was being built several years ago...but construction just stop...someone told me, the builder/company ran out of money...now the windows are falling out...and they are supposed to just tear it down...it's still standing last time I went and I believe it was being worked on in 2012....Vegas is a crazy kinda fun.....that building is HUGE...everyone that drives down the 15 probably knows which one I'm talking about....who builds that type of structure and can't finish it????

That's why they are pushing a plan to ensure that if the stadium plan is aborted it will be cleaned up. It's a good call.

But re: that skyscraper, in Vegas what will happen is some investment group will end up renovating and finishing it. We just have to look at it until the city gives a great deal to a developer to capitalize. Just a matter of time I think.
 

TSFH Fan

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