QB Rankings and YOUR Input
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Legatron4
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The guy is just stating his opinion and you guys are ripping him apart. Chill. I for one agree with this except for Andy Dalton. I just don't think he's all that good. Kaepernick does some things well, but he's also a product of their system. But he's still a top 15 QB. I would put Bradford around 13 or 14. He's gunna be higher next year though. Definitely top 10.
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I copied and pasted your guys to ease up on the typing, then added more guys who IMO have better QB skills and who could do better than, and no worse than Kaepernick in that offense in SF.
No order:
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Phil Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Tony Romo
Andrew Luck
Russel Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Joe Flacco
Andy Dalton
Cam Newton
Nick Foles
Bradford
Matt Ryan
Stafford
RG3
Carson Palmer
Jay Cutler
Matt Shaub
Ryan Tannehill
Matt Cassell
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Thats 22 QB's off the top of my head. A couple of those guys have fallen on hard times...BUT, i contend that all of these QB's have superior QB skills and if put into the same situation as Kaepernick in SF would look better than Kap.
He is a one-read and scramble QB in my eyes. Probably the most superior athlete among QB's, but severely lacking in the skills that all of the QB's i listed above have displayed regularly.
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This exactly what i was thinking as i was making that list...although there are some guys who have reached "stardom" based less upon their QB skills IMO.
LesBaker
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I agree, he is the most athletic QB in the league right now but his game is not complete and I wonder how long the 49ers will be able to "protect" him from defenses and DC's.
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- Kyle
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I don't think there was anything in there about that in the original post, but you might have interpreted something differently than I meant. Regardless, that is a good judgement to follow, and it is one I followed when making my rankings. It doesn't mean I am not following my own criteria, it just means you don't agree with my ranking of a specific QB (in this case Kaep). That is fine. Your rankings are pretty close to mine, although if you have listed them in order, I would prefer Kaepernick over Cuter, Romo, Dalton, and Eli Manning. I'm trying to be objective about this rather than looking at it from a Rams homer/Bradford supporter perspective.
Thanks for the support. I agree with you. When you really look at it, it's hard to rank him much lower than 15 considering the current QB's and how they've played. I think most of the critics would agree. Now, you can call that favoritism or bandwagoning or whatever you want, but that's just how it is.
And yes, I agree that Bradford is gonna move up this season. I have a great feeling he's gonna prove all the doubters wrong this season. Top 10 is sure a possibility, it'll be tough though.
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So then, out of curiosity, where would you have Kaep ranked among all those if you had to? Just curious since that's what I asked before. Surely you wouldn't place Carson Palmer or Matt Cassell ahead of him would you? Either way is fine, just curious to get other people's takes. Appreciate the input.
BTW i think your list is pretty accurate and it's a quality post @Bluesy
I just really disagree on the general consensus on Kap. I don't think he's very special at all aside from his legs.
Thank you. I can see where you have those feelings considering we're all Rams fans here haha. And I do agree with you, he does get a lot of undeserved credit in my opinion, but he is still a good QB with potential.
You're exactly right. That's part of the reason I said it gets harder to rank the middle 1/3 of the pack. Not saying this is something concrete, I realize it's not. Just finding something to do in the offseason.
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For what it's worth, check out this video of an example of a throw by Kaepernick. Some could say it was "Johnny Manziel" like and he was just chucking it up, but he does make good throws. Skip to around :30 to see what I'm talking about. @Mojo Ram @blackbart @LesBaker
Believe me, I do not like Kaepernick at all, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say he's a bad QB. I believe he is quite good, a top 15 QB. Just because I do not like someone does not mean I'm going to say they're bad. That is childish in my opinion.
Believe me, I do not like Kaepernick at all, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say he's a bad QB. I believe he is quite good, a top 15 QB. Just because I do not like someone does not mean I'm going to say they're bad. That is childish in my opinion.
-X-
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That I can agree with.
But that throw you pointed out wasn't good. I've seen Daunte Culpepper do that 10 times a game. We know Kaepernick can do some things well, and his escapability is good, but there's a reason he's given half a field and the green light on read-options. That's a very successful tool when a QB can posture like he's going to run and take a defender off of the true ball carrier, or have a defense assign a spy because of the threat. But I'm not gonna pretend like he's a pure QB in any sense of the word. Even if he was drafted by the Rams, I wouldn't say he's something he's not. I'd be excited by the dynamic he brings to the offense, but I wouldn't say he's a great passer. I'm a purist that way.
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One throw does not impress me a guy in high school can make one play. Kaep is a guy who has not progressed in his 3 years in the NFL and only got to start thanks to the Rams D knocking Smith out. He still looks at his primary and then runs.
Comparing him to Manziel is probably a good pick, he's not an NFL QB either at this point.
Why are you so focused on Kaeperdick,? Wilson won the SB last year and I have him rated lower too.
LesBaker
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I'm with you and X on this. It's why I giggle when Wilson comes up and so many people point to the rest of his team. Yeah he is on a great team, yeah he doesn't get asked to throw 35 times a game. But that little fuck makes plays all game long. I have no problem saying I think he is a very good QB.
CK is an average QB that can run IMO.
I don't know how long either will last in the NFL though.
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I'm with you there, I would rather have a great passer and mediocre runner for my QB. I believe the passers will last longer, and after all, that is what a QB should be doing anyway haha.
Just to be devils advocate here, has Bradford progressed substantially in his four years? I would say yes, but he also still has bad habits, just as any QB does.
I'm so focused on him because that's where the primary debate has come in haha. The question is why is everyone else focused on Kaepernick haha? Probably because this a Rams forum and we don't like the Niners.
Lol yes, he was by far the most awkward interview out of all of them I watched.
The Rammer
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These are my thought about your list:
1. Aaron Rodgers - Best, but still holds the ball too long and takes negative plays. On the plus side, has the ability to make up for those plays. Outstanding offensive talent around him, but an average line that has been decimated by injuries. They will be better this year.
2. Tom Brady - Winner, and best OL in the game. He was average when all of his offensive weapons went down, or were rookies, but THAT system is built to win, and very sustainable.
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Brees - Think you nailed the top 4.
5. Phil Rivers - In the right system, with the right tools around him, he is a good QB, but seems too high for him. See the season previous to this, and what a difference a good OC, and better OL make.
6. Ben Roethlisberger - A winner on the field. Competitor. Holds the ball too long, and has suffered from an average to below average running game that just got better last year. Off the field....
7. Tony Romo - He's just not a winner. Sorry, but that means a lot to me. He has choked on the big stage, more than once. Stat wise, good QB.
8. Andrew Luck - He's not here yet, as shown in the playoffs, and what happens when teams get to him, see Rams.
Here is a list of QB's I would rank close to Bradford, still better, but just by a hair:
1. Russel Wilson - Super talent around him, extends plays, but does read the field well. I think you got him in about the right place.
2. Colin Kaepernick - Until he can read a defense, and not just take off with his God given ability, he can be game planned, if you have the right defensive personnel. We have, and we do.
3. Joe Flacco - I think Joe is a decent QB, who seems to miss a lot of plays on the field, and the offense completely disappears at times. I don't know if it's him, or his OC. Good talent around him on both sides of the ball. Very good arm talent, who makes some questionable throws at times.
4. Andy Dalton - Tons of talent on that team. One of the best receivers in the game. Plays different than Tony Romo, except that he can't find a way to win, when teams ratchet up the stakes, or in the playoffs.
5. Cam Newton - Think he should be higher. He's better than Kaep, he's used to be what Kaep is now. Hate his attitude, and his team may grow weary of him.
6. Nick Foles - Not enough games under his belt yet, so defenses will now have a better understanding of who, and what he is now. If he continues his current path, could be moving up quickly.
Here is where Bradford goes - Don't know what he can do in the playoffs, so it's hard to give him a grade. Great arm talent. Smart decision maker. Underrated athlete. Has never played with a lot of offensive talent around him, but that is changing. Still doesn't have an established #1 receiver, or veteran receivers until now, if Britt sticks, and Pettis can be a better player. Has a running game around him now, and that looks like for the long haul. Good defense, which should be even better this year. Coming off knee surgery. I think he will move up this list anyway. I think he will be considered in the top 10 this year. He's top 15 now.
So that means I would have Bradford ranked at #15 out of all the starters. He's ahead of the likes of RG3, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, and all the others (in my eyes). I could go back and forth on having a few ranked ahead of Bradford, like Dalton and Cam, but the others are pretty set in stone. I think that is fair.
Yes it pains me to put Wilson and Kaepernick above Bradford, but I just can't justify putting Sam ahead of them considering what the other two have accomplished ("team" debate aside). I don't think you can't put team arguments aside, they are all relative to how a QB does, and football is a team game. I will admit that those factors make it extremely hard to rate an individual player in a team game. It really can't be done fairly. Defense, and special teams factor in too, as well as specific units, like WR's, and OL's, and OC's.
1. Aaron Rodgers - Best, but still holds the ball too long and takes negative plays. On the plus side, has the ability to make up for those plays. Outstanding offensive talent around him, but an average line that has been decimated by injuries. They will be better this year.
2. Tom Brady - Winner, and best OL in the game. He was average when all of his offensive weapons went down, or were rookies, but THAT system is built to win, and very sustainable.
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Brees - Think you nailed the top 4.
5. Phil Rivers - In the right system, with the right tools around him, he is a good QB, but seems too high for him. See the season previous to this, and what a difference a good OC, and better OL make.
6. Ben Roethlisberger - A winner on the field. Competitor. Holds the ball too long, and has suffered from an average to below average running game that just got better last year. Off the field....
7. Tony Romo - He's just not a winner. Sorry, but that means a lot to me. He has choked on the big stage, more than once. Stat wise, good QB.
8. Andrew Luck - He's not here yet, as shown in the playoffs, and what happens when teams get to him, see Rams.
Here is a list of QB's I would rank close to Bradford, still better, but just by a hair:
1. Russel Wilson - Super talent around him, extends plays, but does read the field well. I think you got him in about the right place.
2. Colin Kaepernick - Until he can read a defense, and not just take off with his God given ability, he can be game planned, if you have the right defensive personnel. We have, and we do.
3. Joe Flacco - I think Joe is a decent QB, who seems to miss a lot of plays on the field, and the offense completely disappears at times. I don't know if it's him, or his OC. Good talent around him on both sides of the ball. Very good arm talent, who makes some questionable throws at times.
4. Andy Dalton - Tons of talent on that team. One of the best receivers in the game. Plays different than Tony Romo, except that he can't find a way to win, when teams ratchet up the stakes, or in the playoffs.
5. Cam Newton - Think he should be higher. He's better than Kaep, he's used to be what Kaep is now. Hate his attitude, and his team may grow weary of him.
6. Nick Foles - Not enough games under his belt yet, so defenses will now have a better understanding of who, and what he is now. If he continues his current path, could be moving up quickly.
Here is where Bradford goes - Don't know what he can do in the playoffs, so it's hard to give him a grade. Great arm talent. Smart decision maker. Underrated athlete. Has never played with a lot of offensive talent around him, but that is changing. Still doesn't have an established #1 receiver, or veteran receivers until now, if Britt sticks, and Pettis can be a better player. Has a running game around him now, and that looks like for the long haul. Good defense, which should be even better this year. Coming off knee surgery. I think he will move up this list anyway. I think he will be considered in the top 10 this year. He's top 15 now.
So that means I would have Bradford ranked at #15 out of all the starters. He's ahead of the likes of RG3, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, and all the others (in my eyes). I could go back and forth on having a few ranked ahead of Bradford, like Dalton and Cam, but the others are pretty set in stone. I think that is fair.
Yes it pains me to put Wilson and Kaepernick above Bradford, but I just can't justify putting Sam ahead of them considering what the other two have accomplished ("team" debate aside). I don't think you can't put team arguments aside, they are all relative to how a QB does, and football is a team game. I will admit that those factors make it extremely hard to rate an individual player in a team game. It really can't be done fairly. Defense, and special teams factor in too, as well as specific units, like WR's, and OL's, and OC's.
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Angry Ram
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Ahh what the hell, haven't done one in a long time...
The top 10: Basically, these guys are the old vets (except Andrew Luck) that are the leagues tops; few flaws, if any.
1. Peyton Manning
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Matt Ryan
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Tony Romo
8. Philip Rivers
9. Eli Manning (as a career; 1 bad season doesn't drop him IMO)
10. Andrew Luck
The "solid group"...these guys aren't superstars, and chances are won't ever be. They have issues but their good play over comes that.
11. Russell Wilson (I want to rank him lower, but can't; that team just doesn't rely on him but he'll make the play when you need it. I can't fuckin stand it)
12. Joe Flacco
13. Nick Foles
14. Cam Newton
15. Andy Dalton
16. Matthew Stafford
17. Jay Cutler
18. Alex Smith
19. Sam Bradford
20. Colin Kaepernick
^^^^and granted from 15-20, you can make a case that any of those guys to be ranked higher or lower
The "unknown" group...either they are rookies, coming off injuries, or taking time to develop. But they have greater potential than the guys in the tier below them and possibly more than the tier above.
21. Robert Griffin III
22. Jake Locker
23. Ryan Tannehill
24. E.J. Manuel
25. Blake Bortles
26. Josh McCown/Mike Glennon (really this is a question of who the starter is)
27. Teddy Bridgewater
The "better hope" group. These guys used to be good, or are rookies/young player that sure need to perform for the hype the media put on them.
28. Carson Palmer (he has major TO issues through his career, you can win with him, but you better hope he takes care of the damn ball)
29. Johnny Manziel
30. Matt Schaub
31. Geno Smith
The "oh shit he's our starter?" group. Time to start thinking about a replacement.
32. Ryan Fitzpatrick
The top 10: Basically, these guys are the old vets (except Andrew Luck) that are the leagues tops; few flaws, if any.
1. Peyton Manning
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Matt Ryan
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Tony Romo
8. Philip Rivers
9. Eli Manning (as a career; 1 bad season doesn't drop him IMO)
10. Andrew Luck
The "solid group"...these guys aren't superstars, and chances are won't ever be. They have issues but their good play over comes that.
11. Russell Wilson (I want to rank him lower, but can't; that team just doesn't rely on him but he'll make the play when you need it. I can't fuckin stand it)
12. Joe Flacco
13. Nick Foles
14. Cam Newton
15. Andy Dalton
16. Matthew Stafford
17. Jay Cutler
18. Alex Smith
19. Sam Bradford
20. Colin Kaepernick
^^^^and granted from 15-20, you can make a case that any of those guys to be ranked higher or lower
The "unknown" group...either they are rookies, coming off injuries, or taking time to develop. But they have greater potential than the guys in the tier below them and possibly more than the tier above.
21. Robert Griffin III
22. Jake Locker
23. Ryan Tannehill
24. E.J. Manuel
25. Blake Bortles
26. Josh McCown/Mike Glennon (really this is a question of who the starter is)
27. Teddy Bridgewater
The "better hope" group. These guys used to be good, or are rookies/young player that sure need to perform for the hype the media put on them.
28. Carson Palmer (he has major TO issues through his career, you can win with him, but you better hope he takes care of the damn ball)
29. Johnny Manziel
30. Matt Schaub
31. Geno Smith
The "oh shit he's our starter?" group. Time to start thinking about a replacement.
32. Ryan Fitzpatrick
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I think Bradford has top 5 ability but plays like #15.
Going in to 2013, I'd have put him ahead of Rivers
Here's the QB I'd rank ahead of him
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Russell Wilson
7. Cam Newton
8. Eli Manning
9. Andrew Luck
10. Tony Romo
After that, I dont see a player who is discernably better.
Foles? Got to do it more than 1 year IMO
Rivers? He had a great 2013, where Sam had an incomplete, I still think theyre comparable
Kaep? Please. If I elaborated my feelings about his play, I'd make Mojo look like a fan of his....
Going in to 2013, I'd have put him ahead of Rivers
Here's the QB I'd rank ahead of him
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Russell Wilson
7. Cam Newton
8. Eli Manning
9. Andrew Luck
10. Tony Romo
After that, I dont see a player who is discernably better.
Foles? Got to do it more than 1 year IMO
Rivers? He had a great 2013, where Sam had an incomplete, I still think theyre comparable
Kaep? Please. If I elaborated my feelings about his play, I'd make Mojo look like a fan of his....