Offensive Line

[LesBaker]

Health issues aside, I'm not at all worried about our tackles: Long and Saffold provide a top-class pair of bookends if they can stay on the field of play. We have decent depth in Barksdale and Williams, too, while Jones could man either tackle spot in an absolute emergency.

It's the interior of the line which concerns me. Dahl looks to be declining, while Wells isn't getting any younger either. At least we have a ready-made replacement at centre but the guard positions don't look strong.

Looking forward to the 2014 draft, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see both first-round selections used to strengthen the o-line (a replacement for Saffold, if he leaves via free agency, and a starting guarmuch as the 49ers did in 2010. That didn't work out too badly for them.

I'm guessing this is the same Flipper336 from the Herd.......right?

Nah, he's just a guy that read all the other boards for the last few months, found them "Cliquey" and not worth his time. I guess my screen name was the only redeeming quality from over there Les. I guess I should be honored <shrug>

It is a good one to use.....and still a record!

 

[fearsomefour]

awww.....Flipper336....I get it now. Sweet name.

The drafting of Jones can prove a great pick once he is rehabbed. Having depth at C and G out of one guy (like Turner gave us last year) is a huge bonus. I have no doubt he will replace Dahl next year after his deal is up. I like our third T (name escapes me right now, sorry) and thought he played pretty well when thrown into duty last year. The only issue is when there are multiple injuries at once. The Rams certainly have been snake bit on this front the last several years. If you look at our starting Oline vs. the Bears last year....it was like a whos whos of whos that? Gonna be better this year.

 

[BonifayRam]

awww.....Flipper336....I get it now. Sweet name.

The drafting of Jones can prove a great pick once he is rehabbed. Having depth at C and G out of one guy (like Turner gave us last year) is a huge bonus. I have no doubt he will replace Dahl next year after his deal is up. I like our third T (name escapes me right now, sorry) and thought he played pretty well when thrown into duty last year. The only issue is when there are multiple injuries at once. The Rams certainly have been snake bit on this front the last several years. If you look at our starting Oline vs. the Bears last year....it was like a whos whos of whos that? Gonna be better this year.

Snead has already said that they have pulled Barrett Jones way on back now....said it was time to do that after what Barrett rushed back to perform for the pre draft. I could see them shelving Barrett with a much slower rehabbing schedule to ensure that he gets that foot fully healed & strengthened for future great health for the 2014 season. I see this a little different than you. I do not see Barrett 6-4 305 pounder being forced into that RIGHT OG position in the NFL period. I am of the opinion that OG Rok Watkins 6-3 338 pounder would be a much better ORG when Dahl is done. Barrett IMO would never be a good strong side Right OG in the NFL (maybe OK on the weak side @ OLG ) but that would be a waste because I see that Barrett could be a future NFL legend or at least an all pro @ center.

The health of Scott Wells along with with his mega $$$ contact price tag would indicate to me where the need is & certainly be the most pressing area to prepare Barrett's future for. Center Tim Barnes who has been with the Rams now for his third yr. will still get most of the back up center action in TC & pre season. If Wells was to FAIL once again it will be Barnes starting!

If you have read my posts here on Dahl I would be the last ROD'er that wants to replace Harvey....& the last OL'er thats needs to be replaced on this OL. Dahl is under contract all the way into early 2015. That third OT is Barksdale & he played LEFT OT in two games in 2012 both of his games (Pats 45-7 & Packers 30-20) were done by half time. The Pats game was a pure rout. Sam was molested all night after the first series & he said..."It's embarrassing the way we played tonight," Bradford said. "Just embarrassing." Sam was sacked 5 times in those two games. Barksdale is better @ LT than RT post in college. Barksdale play was not all that nasty @ OLT. Barksdale is much more of a finesse blocker than power blocking.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

The front line talent is there, depth and versatility looks good. As long as they don't have a crazy rash of injuries like they've had in the past where they're required to sign a guy off the street to start later that week, I don't see the O Line being much of a concern.

 

[fearsomefour]

awww.....Flipper336....I get it now. Sweet name.

The drafting of Jones can prove a great pick once he is rehabbed. Having depth at C and G out of one guy (like Turner gave us last year) is a huge bonus. I have no doubt he will replace Dahl next year after his deal is up. I like our third T (name escapes me right now, sorry) and thought he played pretty well when thrown into duty last year. The only issue is when there are multiple injuries at once. The Rams certainly have been snake bit on this front the last several years. If you look at our starting Oline vs. the Bears last year....it was like a whos whos of whos that? Gonna be better this year.

Snead has already said that they have pulled Barrett Jones way on back now....said it was time to do that after what Barrett rushed back to perform for the pre draft. I could see them shelving Barrett with a much slower rehabbing schedule to ensure that he gets that foot fully healed & strengthened for future great health for the 2014 season. I see this a little different than you. I do not see Barrett 6-4 305 pounder being forced into that RIGHT OG position in the NFL period. I am of the opinion that OG Rok Watkins 6-3 338 pounder would be a much better ORG when Dahl is done. Barrett IMO would never be a good strong side Right OG in the NFL (maybe OK on the weak side @ OLG ) but that would be a waste because I see that Barrett could be a future NFL legend or at least an all pro @ center.

The health of Scott Wells along with with his mega $$$ contact price tag would indicate to me where the need is & certainly be the most pressing area to prepare Barrett's future for. Center Tim Barnes who has been with the Rams now for his third yr. will still get most of the back up center action in TC & pre season. If Wells was to FAIL once again it will be Barnes starting!

If you have read my posts here on Dahl I would be the last ROD'er that wants to replace Harvey....& the last OL'er thats needs to be replaced on this OL. Dahl is under contract all the way into early 2015. That third OT is Barksdale & he played LEFT OT in two games in 2012 both of his games (Pats 45-7 & Packers 30-20) were done by half time. The Pats game was a pure rout. Sam was molested all night after the first series & he said..."It's embarrassing the way we played tonight," Bradford said. "Just embarrassing." Sam was sacked 5 times in those two games. Barksdale is better @ LT than RT post in college. Barksdale play was not all that nasty @ OLT. Barksdale is much more of a finesse blocker than power blocking.

I dont disagree with any of this. I hadnt heard that with Snead pulling Jones back, although that is not a huge surprise and it is a wise move in my opinion. Let the kid get healthy. I was not saying Jones would replace Dahl because I want Dahl gone, I loved the signing when it was done and I still like him now. His versatility has been a God send for the Rams at times. I was stating that under the assumption (faulty it now appears) that Jones would be healthy. I agree that his long term position is going to be C....and Im sure the Rams drafted him with that in mind. Rok has done nothing to instill any faith that he can be a starter at a G spot....not saying he wont or cant, just, he hasnt done anything. The best case scenario certainly has Jones stepping in at C and Rok stepping in at G in the reasonably near future. I thought this was the last year of Harveys' deal, if he has another year left after this season that is great news as far as I am concerned.
I have a different take on Barksdale. We have gone back and forth briefly before about that. I thought he played well in the Packers game. He was often left on an island in that game (although play calling and alignments may have offered him some protection) a fair amount and did well I thought. The NE game was the one game I missed all year....the reviews were not good.
I see a guy with a ton of potential. A big guy with pretty good feet. That is a sure way to end up at LT, be big and have good feet. Barksdales' ability to step in last year and his ability to play going forward probably lays with the coaching. The results we saw with some pretty unheralded guys, namely Turner and Richardson, gives me some measure of comfort. The point you bring up with not knowing if Joe can switch from the left side to the right side with any level of effectiveness is a legit point.
As for him being a finesse blocker vs a power blocker, that doesnt concern me so much just as long as he is an effective blocker.
At the very least the potential starting line has the possibility of being a big step up from last years line. Long/Williams/Wells/Dahl/Saffold looks a lot nicer to me than Saffold/Quinijia (sp?)/Turner/Dahl/Richardson that we lined up week one. The TC battles to see who emerges for the depth spots will be interesting. Looking forward to seeing Smith, Rok, Williams, Barnes and Barksale....in particular Rok, Barnes and Barksdale....interesting to see who has elevated their game.

 

[Flipper_336]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, Prometheus:

Long is a declining player due to injuries;
We have no bona fide left guard;
Wells is old and injured;
Dahl is getting on in years;
Saffold has never played right tackle.

Depth? Both Barksdale and Williams have flopped throughout their careers; Nsekhe is unproven; Jones is coming off an injury and lacks strength; Rok is out of shape; Smith is a journeyman.

Things aren't looking too bright, are they?

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, Prometheus:

Long is a declining player due to injuries;
We have no bona fide left guard;
Wells is old and injured;
Dahl is getting on in years;
Saffold has never played right tackle.

Depth? Both Barksdale and Williams have flopped throughout their careers; Nsekhe is unproven; Jones is coming off an injury and lacks strength; Rok is out of shape; Smith is a journeyman.

Things aren't looking too bright, are they?

Nothing's bulletproof.

- Bruce has had a hamstring injury for two seasons now and may never fully recover.
- Holt is an unproven rookie.
- Hakim has done nothing noteworthy.
- Proehl has been just average.
- Indy gave up Faulk for what amounts to peanuts, do they know something we don't?
- What on Earth is a Kurt Warner?

 

[CGI_Ram]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, Prometheus:

Long is a declining player due to injuries;
We have no bona fide left guard;
Wells is old and injured;
Dahl is getting on in years;
Saffold has never played right tackle.

Depth? Both Barksdale and Williams have flopped throughout their careers; Nsekhe is unproven; Jones is coming off an injury and lacks strength; Rok is out of shape; Smith is a journeyman.

Things aren't looking too bright, are they?

Long has been a healthy player in his career. I don't think declining is a fair descriptor.

Chris Williams seems well positioned to capably hold down the LG spot.

Wells made our oline a WHOLE LOT BETTER when he replaced Turner.

Dahl is still a safe bet and has low miles on his still young-enough body.

Saffold was drafted to play RT. He'll be fine.

 

[albefree69]

CGI_Ram wrote:
Saffold was drafted to play RT. He'll be fine.

I know he was drafted to play RT but my question is, can we trust the judgment of the Spagz/Devaney duo?

Was Boudreau part of that decision?

 

[BonifayRam]

Rok has done nothing to instill any faith that he can be a starter at a G spot....not saying he wont or cant, just, he hasnt done anything. The best case scenario certainly has Jones stepping in at C and Rok stepping in at G in the reasonably near future.

Yes (this is BonifayRam here) I agree with you here completely on Rok....Nothing & Zero period. If indeed he has put his big boy pants on then Watkins CURRENTLY would be the best of what we have to be Harvey's replacement @ ORG in 2015.

I thought this was the last year of Harveys' deal, if he has another year left after this season that is great news as far as I am concerned.

Yep he is under contract for 2013/2014.

I have a different take on Barksdale. We have gone back and forth briefly before about that. I thought he played well in the Packers game. He was often left on an island in that game (although play calling and alignments may have offered him some protection) a fair amount and did well I thought. The NE game was the one game I missed all year....the reviews were not good.
I see a guy with a ton of potential. A big guy with pretty good feet. That is a sure way to end up at LT, be big and have good feet. Barksdales' ability to step in last year and his ability to play going forward probably lays with the coaching. The results we saw with some pretty unheralded guys, namely Turner and Richardson, gives me some measure of comfort. The point you bring up with not knowing if Joe can switch from the left side to the right side with any level of effectiveness is a legit point.
As for him being a finesse blocker vs a power blocker, that doesnt concern me so much just as long as he is an effective blocker.

Yes I remember that now that you reminded me yes we will respectfully have a difference of opinions here on OT Joe Barksdale. I sure hope I eat my posts on my Barksdale opinions. Joe did some flip flopping from right to left @ LSU and has played some games at both sides early @ ORT and his Sr yr @ left OT. One thing in his favor is the type of OL blocking with Boudreau gives him the best chance of making it in the NFL. But for now I consider him a player who, for whatever reason, has that 'may never live up to his ability' .. Boudreau is Joe last chance IMO.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.sbnation.com/2011/4/23/2120370/joe-barksdale-2011-nfl-draft-prospect-notes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.sbnation.com/2011/4/23/21203 ... pect-notes</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bigblueview.com/2011/3/24/2064510/2011-nfl-draft-prospect-profile-joseph-barksdale-ot-lsu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bigblueview.com/2011/3/24/20 ... ale-ot-lsu</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://bayarea.sbnation.com/oakland-raiders/2011/5/20/2180887/2011-raiders-draft-picks-joseph-barksdale-could-be-a-sleeper-on-the" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://bayarea.sbnation.com/oakland-rai ... per-on-the</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/joseph-barksdale?id=2495118#tab=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ ... 5118#tab=1</a>

At the very least the potential starting line has the possibility of being a big step up from last years line. Long/Williams/Wells/Dahl/Saffold looks a lot nicer to me than Saffold/Quinijia (sp?)/Turner/Dahl/Richardson that we lined up week one. The TC battles to see who emerges for the depth spots will be interesting. Looking forward to seeing Smith, Rok, Williams, Barnes and Barksale....in particular Rok, Barnes and Barksdale....interesting to see who has elevated their game.

Yes the OL looks to be in exceptional shape @ both OTs & ORG the ifs fly in @ center & will Chris Williams finally play up to his ability and win a OL post for the first time in his career @ OLG?

[/quote][/quote]

 

[CGI_Ram]

CGI_Ram wrote:
Saffold was drafted to play RT. He'll be fine.

I know he was drafted to play RT but my question is, can we trust the judgment of the Spagz/Devaney duo?

Was Boudreau part of that decision?

Good question.

I think Saffold had enough "backers" outside of the Rams to suggest he'll be fine. And... his play at LT confirms it.

 

[albefree69]

CGI_Ram answered:
I think Saffold had enough "backers" outside of the Rams to suggest he'll be fine. And... his play at LT confirms it.

Enough backers who thought he should be a RT? He was a LT in college and that fact that he did well at LT with the Rams still doesn't say if he'll be a good RT.

I guess it all depends on how different you think the skills are for each position. If you're like me, I think there is a small difference in that if you're a right handed team the RT should be your best run blocking tackle. But it's not a huge difference in my mind.

The other group thinks that a RT doesn't need as much pass blocking talent and they want a road mauler at RT. I don't believe that's true anymore.

And you?

 

[BonifayRam]

CGI_Ram wrote:
Saffold was drafted to play RT. He'll be fine.

I know he was drafted to play RT but my question is, can we trust the judgment of the Spagz/Devaney duo?

Was Boudreau part of that decision?

Good Question. I feel that Boudreau is the author of the move of Saffold to ORT once Jake Long was being sniffed. I felt that Saffold could be the best OLG in the NFL if Saffold wanted too....Jury will remain out until the bye IMO but if Saffold remains healthy Its my opinion he will team up great with Harvey.

I found this its over three years old but when you read it take notice to the last sentence...

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bigblueview.com/2010/3/15/1360224/daily-nfl-draft-prospect-profile" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bigblueview.com/2010/3/15/13 ... ct-profile</a>

 

[CGI_Ram]

CGI_Ram answered:
I think Saffold had enough "backers" outside of the Rams to suggest he'll be fine. And... his play at LT confirms it.

Enough backers who thought he should be a RT? He was a LT in college and that fact that he did well at LT with the Rams still doesn't say if he'll be a good RT.

I guess it all depends on how different you think the skills are for each position. If you're like me, I think there is a small difference in that if you're a right handed team the RT should be your best run blocking tackle. But it's not a huge difference in my mind.

The other group thinks that a RT doesn't need as much pass blocking talent and they want a road mauler at RT. I don't believe that's true anymore.

And you?

Personally; most of us are dominate right hand - left hand. Additionally the technique for each side must feel like switch hitting in baseball... its probably not as easy as it sounds.

That said; if you are an athletic big man with a mean streak and willingness to fight... you can learn the mechanics of the position. Being successful at LT (against the more dominate ends) implies he can make the switch to the less demanding side.

I'm sure there is more science to this, such as footwork, etc... that makes one a RT candidate as opposed to LT... but again with success at LT Staffold should make the transition just fine.

 

[albefree69]

BonifayRam with added thoughts and info:
Good Question. I feel that Boudreau is the author of the move of Saffold to ORT once Jake Long was being sniffed. I felt that Saffold could be the best OLG in the NFL if Saffold wanted too....Jury will remain out until the bye IMO but if Saffold remains healthy Its my opinion he will team up great with Harvey.

I found this its over three years old but when you read it take notice to the last sentence...

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bigblueview.com/2010/3/15/1360224/daily-nfl-draft-prospect-profile" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bigblueview.com/2010/3/15/13 ... ct-profile</a>

So I read the article at the link and came away with this: "So perhaps his future home is as a ROT or he might be suited to kick inside and play guard in a zone-blocking scheme." That sounds promising but It's still a projection and I'm always leary of position changes.

Also, I'm sure Boudreau had input on Saffold moving to RT but if the Snisher was hell bent on getting Long then he didn't have much choice did he?

 

[nighttrain]

CGI_Ram wrote:
Saffold was drafted to play RT. He'll be fine.

I know he was drafted to play RT but my question is, can we trust the judgment of the Spagz/Devaney duo?

Was Boudreau part of that decision?

i'm of the opinion that after acquiring Long, if Boudreau didnt think he could make him a RT, he'd be gone.
train

 

[albefree69]

CGI_Ram wrote:
Personally; most of us are dominate right hand - left hand. Additionally the technique for each side must feel like switch hitting in baseball... its probably not as easy as it sounds.

That's part of it but what I really meant to say was that the TE usually lines up on the right side and so that makes you a right handed team. If you used a real FB and lined him up to the left of the QB then you'd probably run the majority of your running plays to the left of your center. Of course I could be wrong about that because I'm no expert.

I don't know enough about the O-line positions to say anything but generalities about the skills needed for each position but the other stuff you said sounds reasonable to me.

 

[CGI_Ram]

CGI_Ram wrote:
Saffold was drafted to play RT. He'll be fine.

I know he was drafted to play RT but my question is, can we trust the judgment of the Spagz/Devaney duo?

Was Boudreau part of that decision?

i'm of the opinion that after acquiring Long, if Boudreau didnt think he could make him a RT, he'd be gone.
train

Good point, train.

 

[albefree69]

nighttrain wrote:
i'm of the opinion that after acquiring Long, if Boudreau didnt think he could make him a RT, he'd be gone.

I was asking if Boudreau was our O-line coach during that draft when we got Saffold. I know he was here then gone then here again.

As for the stuff in blue, I disagree with your thought there. With our cap situation what choice did we have?
Can't cut him because we don't have a decent replacement and we don't have the money to get another one in FA.
Trade him and then hope you can pick up his replacement in the draft?

I feel we were forced to go with him at RT. But I also think they feel he'll do a great job there if he stays healthy. I do too.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

CGI_Ram answered:
I think Saffold had enough "backers" outside of the Rams to suggest he'll be fine. And... his play at LT confirms it.

Enough backers who thought he should be a RT? He was a LT in college and that fact that he did well at LT with the Rams still doesn't say if he'll be a good RT.

I guess it all depends on how different you think the skills are for each position. If you're like me, I think there is a small difference in that if you're a right handed team the RT should be your best run blocking tackle. But it's not a huge difference in my mind.

The other group thinks that a RT doesn't need as much pass blocking talent and they want a road mauler at RT. I don't believe that's true anymore.

And you?

The most important action for an offensive lineman is his first step. The quickness and power with which they take that step often dictates whether they block their guy cleanly, hit him in the wrong spot or whiff completely. Saffold's probably taken that first step with his left leg about 100,000 times in games and in practice. So it's just a big important habit to adjust to. May be the biggest factor in whether guys are successful in transitioning to the other side of the line. Seems simple, but you'd be surprised about how cadywampus that adjustment can make your game.