Not sold on Clowney

[crazyhorns]

I can not deny that the guy has the physical tools and gifts to be a great player. The question is, if he was great why did he not dominate as a college athlete. The players only get bigger, stronger, and faster in the NFL and if you did not dominate all the stats in college why do some believe he will do so in the NFL. This statement may not be 100 percent accurate but from some of the questions about Clowney is that he does not have good work ethic, only can play aggressive and fast has no power or patience, will leave his gap unmanned, and was very rarely doubled team and if he was such a force he should of had bigger numbers when singled up.

So when people refer to The Best Player Available it makes me question why is Clowney the best player available? He maybe the best physical talent but does that make him the best player available? What are your thought?

 

[Ramhusker]

Good questions. I guess when NFL talent evaluators look at players they are looking at how a kid's skill-set can translate to big league. Clowney has all the things that can't be taught. Good coaching and the right environment make the difference. And I dare say some players that can dominate most of the time in college while they are standing at the top of the piers can tend to "dog" it from time to time because they feel that is all that they need to do. I've seen it just in coaching little league baseball. I'd have to ride my best players the most because they quickly notice that they can do as good or slightly better than their teammates with half-ass effort. So the "pros" at this feel pretty confident when they put a guy like Clowney in an environment where he is just another guy and his skill alone will not allow success, he will get to work and learn that nothing but 100% effort is going to give him a chance. Then, a monster is born!

 

[shaunpinney]

IMO the draft is a black art, and you can never know how a player changes as soon as they get that first pay check, which is why so many 1st round guys bomb and you can pick up a Pro Bowl Caliber player in the later rounds or even UDFA Arian Foster, Wes Welker, Antonio Gates ohh and some guy called Kip Warner or was it Kurt

I'm of the mindset that apart from picking up the Best Player Available - GMs and HCs need to be looking at who the best fit for the team is, sometimes the BPA isn't the best fit for your team, a clever GM/HC will select players which will compliment their existing roster.

I believe Snead & Fisher are good at this...

 

[NJRamsFan]

What makes Clowney the best player available is the potential he has to dominate the nfl. As of now, everyone in the draft is nothing more than potential, many will succeed, many will fail, and top prospects are not nearly as exempt from failure as some may think. So, since every single guy in this draft could be a bust for any number of reasons, in order to determine BPA you look at who is the best physical talent, who if everything fell into place, would be the best player. I think clowney has done enough to convince me he is the best player

 

[CGI_Ram]

As a player, I think Clowney could make this defense unbelievable!

But... He strikes me as a guy that could easily leave after his first contract chasing the almighty dollar.

Don't get me wrong, Quinn could do the same... But I think he'll put the Rams at the top of his list - out of loyalty - bending over backwards to reach a fair deal.

See Long. See JL.

I don't see Clowney having that kind of character. I could be wrong.

 

[NJRamsFan]

As a player, I think Clowney could make this defense unbelievable!

But... He strikes me as a guy that could easily leave after his first contract chasing the almighty dollar.

Don't get me wrong, Quinn could do the same... But I think he'll put the Rams at the top of his list - out of loyalty - bending over backwards to reach a fair deal.

See Long. See JL.

I don't see Clowney having that kind of character. I could be wrong.

Based on what?

 

[jrry32]

I can not deny that the guy has the physical tools and gifts to be a great player. The question is, if he was great why did he not dominate as a college athlete. The players only get bigger, stronger, and faster in the NFL and if you did not dominate all the stats in college why do some believe he will do so in the NFL. This statement may not be 100 percent accurate but from some of the questions about Clowney is that he does not have good work ethic, only can play aggressive and fast has no power or patience, will leave his gap unmanned, and was very rarely doubled team and if he was such a force he should of had bigger numbers when singled up.

So when people refer to The Best Player Available it makes me question why is Clowney the best player available? He maybe the best physical talent but does that make him the best player available? What are your thought?

Yea, you're right about that statement. The bold is definitely not correct. As far as stats are concerned, Clowney recorded more sacks in 2012 than JJ Watt did over his entire college career.

College stats don't mean that much.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Based on what?

Based on it appeared he throttled down his efforts to avoid injury this year.

If true; that's not someone playing the game for the love of the game. I hope I'm wrong cause dude could potentially own the world if his heart is in it. Which, IS a character trait.

 

[Ramsey]

I saw every bit of Clowney's film. Clowney has a high motor. I didn't see him take off plays. He was the best player I scouted.

Having said that, I don't know what his practice ethic is like. More importantly, outside of QB, what really is the position that matters most?
The Rams led the NFC West in sacks, and the Rams allowed the least amount of sacks in the NFC West. And we came in last! Damn!

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The Rams don't need Clowney. DE is the least of their concerns. They need an OT, Safety, Corner and Guard way more than they need a DE that people aren't sure loves the game of football. Let him be somebody elses disappointment.

The way I look at it is if the Rams really needed a DE, then taking him is a no brainer. You gamble and if he flops at least they did their best to fill a big need. But taking a luxury that flops with a very high pick is a failure through and through.

Its just like when teams take QBs high or OTs. If they bust you can't blame the team for trying if that was a need. Just like Jason Smith. I don't blame Devanney. OT was a dire need and he seemed to be a consensus top 5 pick. Monroe had the knee issue, so Smith was the logical choice. He sucked, happens.

 

[crazyhorns]

Yea, you're right about that statement. The bold is definitely not correct. As far as stats are concerned, Clowney recorded more sacks in 2012 than JJ Watt did over his entire college career.

College stats don't mean that much.

Well what you mark in bold were statements from Pat Kirwan. I have a lot of respect for the man when it comes to football. He looked at film and what caught my attention is when he stated that clowney was rarely double teamed. Mr. Kirwan state he expected to see a lot of double team on Clowney and the fact it happen so rarely was surprising.

Funny how you brought JJ Watt into the discussion. If presents a question I have for you and the rest of ROD. Would you prefer a overachiever like JJ Watt who loves the game and puts in the extra extra extra time to be great or a underachiever who has all the talent in the world.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I am sure I will get blasted for this from the Clowney Crowd, but I have been around a lot of potheads with my last job. When I see Clowney interviewed I would say he would fit right in as one of my old crew members. When I think of a football player that I want on the team I think of a guy with intensity like Jack Youngblood. When I see Clowney's demeanor I question if he has that same fire for the game.

 

[nighttrain]

"The Rams don't need Clowney. DE is the least of their concerns. They need an OT, Safety, Corner and Guard way more than they need a DE that people aren't sure loves the game of football. Let him be somebody elses disappointment.
The way I look at it is if the Rams really needed a DE, then taking him is a no brainer. You gamble and if he flops at least they did their best to fill a big need. But taking a luxury that flops with a very high pick is a failure through and through.
Its just like when teams take QBs high or OTs. If they bust you can't blame the team for trying if that was a need. Just like Jason Smith. I don't blame Devanney. OT was a dire need and he seemed to be a consensus top 5 pick. Monroe had the knee issue, so Smith was the logical choice. He sucked, happens"

Exactly Elmgrovenome, we have no need of a DE, what we need the most is OL
train

 

[jrry32]

Well what you mark in bold were statements from Pat Kirwan. I have a lot of respect for the man when it comes to football. He looked at film and what caught my attention is when he stated that clowney was rarely double teamed. Mr. Kirwan state he expected to see a lot of double team on Clowney and the fact it happen so rarely was surprising.

Funny how you brought JJ Watt into the discussion. If presents a question I have for you and the rest of ROD. Would you prefer a overachiever like JJ Watt who loves the game and puts in the extra extra extra time to be great or a underachiever who has all the talent in the world.

Overachiever. But this assumes Clowney is an underachiever. And Mr. Kirwan is incorrect. I've watched the games and reviewed the film. Clowney was not "rarely" doubled.

 

[Majick360]

Based on it appeared he throttled down his efforts to avoid injury this year.

If true; that's not someone playing the game for the love of the game.

If he can be motivated by $ the NFL has plenty.

 

[CGI_Ram]

If he can be motivated by $ the NFL has plenty.

Welcome aboard.

I can't disagree. But if I'm building a team, I want players who value more than just $.

Heart is what makes the greats, great.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Overachiever. But this assumes Clowney is an underachiever. And Mr. Kirwan is incorrect. I've watched the games and reviewed the film. Clowney was not "rarely" doubled.

This! I too have watched a lot of film on Clowney he was double and triple teamed a large majority of his snaps.

 

[jrry32]

I am sure I will get blasted for this from the Clowney Crowd, but I have been around a lot of potheads with my last job. When I see Clowney interviewed I would say he would fit right in as one of my old crew members. When I think of a football player that I want on the team I think of a guy with intensity like Jack Youngblood. When I see Clowney's demeanor I question if he has that same fire for the game.

Clowney definitely smokes pot. How much? I do not know. But I know for a fact he has smoked.

Then again, my college roommate smokes pot on occasion as do a number of my friends. So I guess I don't consider it to be that big of a deal. The only big question I have with weed is...do they care more about weed or football? That would be what I'd have to ponder with players that I know smoke.

Then again, Von Miller got popped for smoking weed last year and suspended. I think any of us would take him on our team.

Welcome aboard.

I can't disagree. But if I'm building a team, I want players who value more than just $.

Heart is what makes the greats, great.

I guess my problem is that people assume they're mutually exclusive. They assume if you're in the game to get paid, you don't have passion and love for it. I don't really buy that. IMO, Clowney is passionate about football and genuinely loves playing it. He also wants to get paid.

But is that really any different than a guy like Jared Allen who opted to spurn the Seahawks to sign with the Bears to get paid more? And yet Allen is one of the best DEs of the last generation. Is it any different than Darrelle Revis seemingly holding out every to get paid? He was the best CB in the game for a good while...may still be.

I could go on but the point remains, I think people make assumptions about Clowney and then go to the extreme.

 

[Stranger]

I could go on but the point remains, I think people make assumptions about Clowney and then go to the extreme.

It's the same every year with the top prospects.

 

[Alan]

NJRamsFan liking athletes:
in order to determine BPA you look at who is the best physical talent, who if everything fell into place, would be the best player. I think clowney has done enough to convince me he is the best player

So, I'm understanding you to say that you think Clowney is the best athlete because he outshines the normal range for a DE athletically speaking. Do you think that Robinson has separated himself from the rest of the OT class in a similar fashion? Because I do. Different areas though. Robinson has much more power than Clowney but in other ways Clowney is superior. From just the "best physical talent" standpoint, I think Robinson fits that description just as well.

Having said that, I don't want either of them. I don't trust Clowney and I don't want to only hope Robinson can learn to pass block at a very high level. I want Matthews.