Not sold on Clowney

[Alan]

Elmgrovegnome with more details:
I worked with high school drop outs for 8 years. I could tell you the Pot Smokers after the first few days they were on the job. I could tell which we're pill heads and which ones were drinkers. The toughest ones to read we're the guys that dabbled in everything. The Coke heads had an edge to them all the time and they usually were lean and cut while still having good musculature. The potheads were always laid back and had a lot of trouble following directions,even if it was something I already taught them. They were usually on the soft side. The Pillheads were always nodding off around 11 and started fiending hard by 2 and either wanted to go home or get away from me for a bit, ditto for the heroine addicts. By 2 those guys had a greyish yellow tint to their skin and looked like they were struggling to just stand up. The alkies would start around 2 with the stomach cramps and claiming they were sick but didn't look sick. We didn't drug test and many of these kids used before and during work when they got a chance. It is more in depth than all of this but you get the idea. It was a very open system and I always had the kids trust because they new I was there to help them and unless they got caught in the act the worse thing that could happen was they get sent home without pay. They were surprisingly very open with me about their habits. I figured that if the State would not let me drug test the best thing I could do is try to understand their stance and win their trust and try to help them from a friendlier angle. It worked for most of them, but not all. I also had kids that were drug free that had other troubles, like social skill problems or autism. Once in a while I got a problem free kid that was very easy to deal with, but they got through the program very quickly and we found them permanent employment easily.

I did my share of pot smoking and hanging with that crowd back in the college days myself too. I even had a girlfriend that tried to convince me to move to a commune with her. I am not some old Codger that walked the straight and narrow my whole life. I am critical of drug use though because just like Alcohol, too much of it can interfere with leading a healthy life and definitely can be a detriment to the work environment. As a former Kung Fu disciple I also learned that even drinking a few beers the day before a tournament had a negative affect in my performance. I cannot imagine how anyone can put forth a maximum level of effort in a sport that is full of the best athletes in the country and be at the top of there game with lingering affects of Pot in their system, if they are chronic users.

I wasn't doubting your knowledge of the subject Elm. That's why I said "Elmgrovegnome with his experience:". I was merely giving you my bona fides too so you'd know we were on a level playing field.

Now I see why we have such a different viewpoint on this. I must not have read your original post correctly because I thought we were talking about pot as in:"but I have been around a lot of potheads with my last job". In this post you are mainly talking about pillheads which is a completely different thing. Those on downers and other depressants do exhibit the characteristics you described in the post I replied to. Now that I know you're talking about various kinds of pills I'll look at your posts in a new light.

Just to be clear though, your description of potheads does not jibe with my experiences at all. All the "laid back potheads" you describe here might not have just been smoking pot. This is no biggie Elm. We just see different things when it comes to characteristics exhibited by the potheads we are (in my case) or the ones we interact with.

 

[Alan]

PhxRam talking about his dad:
My father in law is/was a Walmart greeter. He since got promoted to register..LOL

He is retired and doesnt need the money, he just does it to get out and see people.

He takes about any day off he wants. They try and tell him he HAS to come in and he basically tells them to pee pee off. He likes to remind them that he doesnt need their job and surprisingly they dont bother him.

I don't know your Dad but I like him already from what you've told me. He sounds a little curmudgeonly like me.

 

[Ramsey]

Wow. Almost every tv talking head has questioned his motor after the 2013 season.

SC head coach Spurrier was asked about Clowney's work ethic recently, in which he replied "its ok"

Lol not sure if that is an endorsement or...

I've watched every play of Clowney's career. He has a high motor. Very high motor. I still think he may be a primadonna.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I wasn't doubting your knowledge of the subject Elm. That's why I said "Elmgrovegnome with his experience:". I was merely giving you my bona fides too so you'd know we were on a level playing field.

Now I see why we have such a different viewpoint on this. I must not have read your original post correctly because I thought we were talking about pot as in:"but I have been around a lot of potheads with my last job". In this post you are mainly talking about pillheads which is a completely different thing. Those on downers and other depressants do exhibit the characteristics you described in the post I replied to. Now that I know you're talking about various kinds of pills I'll look at your posts in a new light.

Just to be clear though, your description of potheads does not jibe with my experiences at all. All the "laid back potheads" you describe here might not have just been smoking pot. This is no biggie Elm. We just see different things when it comes to characteristics exhibited by the potheads we are (in my case) or the ones we interact with.

Maybe we just have different ideas about what a pothead is. These guys smoked before work, immediately after work, on lunch break if I was not around, most of the evening after work was spent on Roadies driving around the countryside. They actually believed that they did everything much better when they were stoned. We argued it for hours. No matter how much scientific evidence I provided them with they refused to believe that pot slows the reaction time to sudden events.

I did have one guy on the crew that I never would have guessed was a smoker. He had a very high metabolism and lots of energy. I suspected he was ADHD from his attention span. So I am sure my rules of thumb don't apply to all. But I stick with my instincts.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

That's awesome that you were a disciple! Kung Fu is hard enough, but that's a serious amount of work. Was it a St. Louis school?

I completely agree with your comment. Heck, even just running cross country, I remember beer would have an obviously negative impact on my time, and I wasn't even very good

Maybe I overstated that. I don't know what really constitutes being a disciple. I considered myself one. My friends were all into Tae Kwan Do but kicking was never a strength of mine. I couldnt straddle for crap. We have a major medical center in our small town and lots of transient Doctors from different countries. My Dad was a barber and cut many of the Docs hair. The shop was attached to the house and we often met the customers. I had been reading up on South Shaolin Kung fu because it was done on boats quite often and therefore was more hand fighting and less extravagant kicking. My Dad mentioned my interest to a Chinese follow whose Father was also living with him. He said his Dad had done Hung Kuen his whole life and would teach me since he was board with little to do. I jumped on it and for three years he taught me what he knew. I was able to enter tournaments through my buddies school. It gave me a great advantage because everyone there was used to Tae Kwon Do,and Hung Kuen had many unorthodox moves so they couldnt anticipate what I was going to do. The tourney rules favored me too because it was all light contact. I am sure that some of those kicks full force would have done me in. Anyway, I loved the experience and always thought I would get back to it but college and then work just wouldn't allow it. I still have my chuks and try to follow as Taoist beliefs as much as possible but it would take years to get back to where I was and at 46 with small kids, I don't know if I have the extra energy or time.

 

[Alan]

BTW, I would never advocate getting high while on duty. Everyone's performance is degraded when high regardless of what your "workers" and I use that term very loosely, claim. That's just stupidity and not the result of smoking pot.

 

[Mojo Ram]

IMO the most damaging side effects from chronic pot smoking is one becoming less motivated and just plain lazy.
Having said that i believe it should be legalized.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Well they were all high school dropouts for a reason. The job was both rewarding and frustrating at the same time and the sponsors of the project were rarely happy with the progress we made. I initially took it to teach skills and do projects for the community but I quickly found out that I was more of a counselor than a foreman, and the State had a fear of firing people without an ironclad reason. Drug testing would have been that reason but they said we were there to help all of the kids. So once the career link people sent them my way, I was expected to teach them and get them some sort of permanent employment. Some days I just wanted to jump out of the truck while driving over the Susquehanna river and let the whole crew go over the side. Other days it was a fun and rewarding job.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

IMO the most damaging side effects from chronic pot smoking is one becoming less motivated and just plain lazy.
Having said that i believe it should be legalized.

The topic has always interested me, in case you cannot tell. Most drugs including Pot will substitute dopamine. Chronic smoking can cause the brain to stop producing dopamine altogether. It can take months for the brain to start producing it again. So, once you get to that point you maynot technically be addicted to it but can be emotionally addicted because your brain is not naturally giving that feel good chemical that you get when your happy or having fun. So, a lot of people smoke it to feel happier because they have trouble feeling that way without it. Dopamine production comes back in several months after smoking is stopped. The lack of natural dopamine also explains the lethargy or not caring about much. Occassional use doesn't lead to the symptoms.

 

[Mojo Ram]

The topic has always interested me, in case you cannot tell. Most drugs including Pot will substitute dopamine. Chronic smoking can cause the brain to stop producing dopamine altogether. It can take months for the brain to start producing it again. So, once you get to that point you maynot technically be addicted to it but can be emotionally addicted because your brain is not naturally giving that feel good chemical that you get when your happy or having fun. So, a lot of people smoke it to feel happier because they have trouble feeling that way without it. Dopamine production comes back in several months after smoking is stopped. The lack of natural dopamine also explains the lethargy or not caring about much. Occassional use doesn't lead to the symptoms.

Agree 100%.

 

[Zaphod]

Maybe I overstated that. I don't know what really constitutes being a disciple. I considered myself one. My friends were all into Tae Kwan Do but kicking was never a strength of mine. I couldnt straddle for crap. We have a major medical center in our small town and lots of transient Doctors from different countries. My Dad was a barber and cut many of the Docs hair. The shop was attached to the house and we often met the customers. I had been reading up on South Shaolin Kung fu because it was done on boats quite often and therefore was more hand fighting and less extravagant kicking. My Dad mentioned my interest to a Chinese follow whose Father was also living with him. He said his Dad had done Hung Kuen his whole life and would teach me since he was board with little to do. I jumped on it and for three years he taught me what he knew. I was able to enter tournaments through my buddies school. It gave me a great advantage because everyone there was used to Tae Kwon Do,and Hung Kuen had many unorthodox moves so they couldnt anticipate what I was going to do. The tourney rules favored me too because it was all light contact. I am sure that some of those kicks full force would have done me in. Anyway, I loved the experience and always thought I would get back to it but college and then work just wouldn't allow it. I still have my chuks and try to follow as Taoist beliefs as much as possible but it would take years to get back to where I was and at 46 with small kids, I don't know if I have the extra energy or time.

I understand where you're coming from, I didn't even start Kung Fu until I was in my 40s.

If you're in St. Louis and interested you could check out Shaolin Lohan School of Kung Fu. It's a northern five animal style, so it would be quite different but it is fun nonetheless.

 

[jrry32]

Maybe I overstated that. I don't know what really constitutes being a disciple. I considered myself one. My friends were all into Tae Kwan Do but kicking was never a strength of mine. I couldnt straddle for crap. We have a major medical center in our small town and lots of transient Doctors from different countries. My Dad was a barber and cut many of the Docs hair. The shop was attached to the house and we often met the customers. I had been reading up on South Shaolin Kung fu because it was done on boats quite often and therefore was more hand fighting and less extravagant kicking. My Dad mentioned my interest to a Chinese follow whose Father was also living with him. He said his Dad had done Hung Kuen his whole life and would teach me since he was board with little to do. I jumped on it and for three years he taught me what he knew. I was able to enter tournaments through my buddies school. It gave me a great advantage because everyone there was used to Tae Kwon Do,and Hung Kuen had many unorthodox moves so they couldnt anticipate what I was going to do. The tourney rules favored me too because it was all light contact. I am sure that some of those kicks full force would have done me in. Anyway, I loved the experience and always thought I would get back to it but college and then work just wouldn't allow it. I still have my chuks and try to follow as Taoist beliefs as much as possible but it would take years to get back to where I was and at 46 with small kids, I don't know if I have the extra energy or time.

Haha, I was one of the kids that did Taekwondo. Got a black belt when I was in my teens but haven't really had enough time to keep up with it. My kicking ability and flexibility have gone down the crapper since I stopped.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 with the other Korean karate:
Haha, I was one of the kids that did Taekwondo. Got a black belt when I was in my teens but haven't really had enough time to keep up with it. My kicking ability and flexibility have gone down the crapper since I stopped.

I have a brown belt in Tang Soo Do which is very similar to Taekwando. Learning it was a lot of fun but like you mentioned, it's hard to keep up with your training.

 

[RamzFanz]

I would hope so he Clowney played 3 years and Quinn only 2.

I wonder what numbers Quninn would have put up if he played an additional year. I'm glad he did not since the Rams got him when they did.

Go Rams

Well, silly, I only compared the last 2 years, not all 3 for Clowney.

 

[RamzFanz]

I have a brown belt in Tang Soo Do which is very similar to Taekwando. Learning it was a lot of fun but like you mentioned, it's hard to keep up with your training.

I have a blackbelt in Poon Tang Pow.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I understand where you're coming from, I didn't even start Kung Fu until I was in my 40s.

If you're in St. Louis and interested you could check out Shaolin Lohan School of Kung Fu. It's a northern five animal style, so it would be quite different but it is fun nonetheless.

I wish I had been in a city. I am in rural PA and Tae Kwon do is all that is offered around here. I was very fortunate to have my three years with my 'Mr. Miagi'. And no, he never made me paint the fence or wax the cars. If I was in a city I would definitely consider it. Hung Kuen is a five animal style too..Dragon, Snake, Crane, Leopard, Tiger. Even after 3 years I never really was able to instinctively flow from one animal to another and I was a teen so I had lots of time to train and did so nearly everyday. I loved it.

 

[Alan]

RamzFanz complaining about only having a black belt:
I have a blackbelt in Poon Tang Pow.

Well keep working on it and someday you'll get a pink belt like me.

 

[RamzFanz]

Well keep working on it and someday you'll get a pink belt like me.
Here is what they look like.

Take that down dude. Doesn't offend me but it'll get dinged.

 

[RamzFanz]

Well keep working on it and someday you'll get a pink belt like me.

LOL

 

[OnceARam]

Yea, it could. But that also assumes that the safe pick doesn't have a lot of upside. In Matthews's case, I disagree.

But I agree that I'd take Clowney over Jake...just barely. However, Matthews would be my guy if we trade down or if Clowney is off the board.

That's good to hear that Matthew's has a lot of upside. I wasn't sure.