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The Ripper

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A hostile take over of the Raiduhs isn't the farthest fetched idea I've heard. I think it may only be a matter of time before Davis is forced to sell or loses the team.

I think you are wrong on Kroenke. I don't mean that he is doing what he does out of some form of team loyalty or generosity but he tends to care a great deal how his businesses are developed and run. I also think you take his business tactics and place other NFL owners on some higher plain. Money and prestige is #1 for all of these guys.

It's impossible for the Davis's to lose control of the team by hostile takeover or almost impossible for the NFL to remove them as owners. Their owned by a limited partnership and the Davis's are the managing partners. Al Davis took control of the team in 1972 by drafting a new partnership agreement that gave him exclusive control of the team.
 

Hacksaw

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Raiders ownership now and then:

Upon receiving the franchise, Oakland civic leaders found a number of businesspeople willing to invest in the new team. A limited partnership was formed to own the team headed by managing general partner Y. Charles (Chet) Soda (1908–89), a local real estate developer, and included general partners Ed McGah (1899–1983), Robert Osborne (1898–1968), F. Wayne Valley (1914–86), restaurateur Harvey Binns (1914–82), Don Blessing (1904–2000), and contractor Charles Harney (1902–62) as well as numerous limited partners.

Ed McGah, the last of the original eight general partners of the Raiders, died in September 1983. Upon his death, his interest was devised to a family trust, of which his son, E.J. McGah, was the trustee. The younger McGah was himself a part-owner of the team, as a limited partner, and died in 2002. Several members of the McGah family filed suit against Davis in October 2003, alleging mismanagement of the team by Davis. The lawsuit sought monetary damages and to remove Davis and A. D. Football, Inc. as the team's managing general partner. Among their specific complaints, the McGahs alleged that Davis failed to provide them with detailed financial information previously provided to Ed and E.J. McGah. The Raiders countered that—under the terms of the partnership agreement as amended in 1972—upon the death of the elder McGah in 1983, his general partner interest converted to that of a limited partner. The team continued to provide the financial information to the younger McGah as a courtesy, though it was under no obligation to do so.

The majority of the lawsuit was dismissed in April 2004, when an Alameda County Superior Court judge ruled that the case lacked merit since none of the other partners took part in the lawsuit. In October 2005, the lawsuit was settled out of court. The terms of the settlement are confidential, but it was reported that under its terms Davis purchased the McGah family's interest in the Raiders (approximately 31 percent), which gave him for the first time a majority interest, speculated to be approximately 67 percent of the team. As a result of the settlement, confidential details concerning Al Davis and the ownership of the Raiders were not released to the public. His ownership share went down to 47% when he sold 20% of the team to Wall Street investors

In 2006, it was reported that Davis had been attempting to sell the 31% ownership stake in the team obtained from the McGah family. He was unsuccessful in this effort, reportedly because the sale would not give the purchaser any control of the Raiders, even in the event of Davis's death.

Al Davis died on October 8, 2011, at 82. According to a 1999 partnership agreement, Davis' interest passed to his wife, Carol. After Davis' death, Raiders chief executive Amy Trask said that the team "will remain in the Davis family."Al and Carol's son, Mark, inherited his father's old post as managing general partner and serves as the public face of the ownership.

Al Davis had owned 67 percent of the Raiders, but that dropped to 47 percent in 2007 when he sold a 20 percent interest to a group of investors led by East Coast businessmen David Abrams, director of the Abrams Capital investment firm, Paul Leff, founder of the Perry Corp. money-management firm, and Dan Goldring, managing director at Perry Corp. The deal gave the group no control of the franchise at the time of the sale or in the future.

So how easy would it be to oust Davis when the other stockholders might not agree?

http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/tafur...-will-retain-ownership-of-Raiders-2328012.php
wiki.
 

blue4

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I think a lot of this is really going off the rails. There's no evidence to suggest that Stan has ever viewed moving to LA as some sort of massive PR holy quest, there's no evidence to suggest he wants the Raiders, or that Davis wants to sell. (Shockingly, Davis would have a say in the selling of his legacy, Superpowers Stan can't just decide to buy it and poof.) IIRC, Davis is majority share, so that ends the hostile takeover speculation. Billionaires don't move cities for PR, or for shining legacies, they do it for money. When they want to build legacies, they tax deduction donate to libraries and charities and such. This is how they become billionaires. Stan has maneuvered himself into a can't lose situation. He either has the L.A. Rams in a new stadium where he spends more but makes more, or he has the ST Louis Rams in a new stadium where he makes less but doesn't spend much relatively speaking. He can't lose here, and billionaires don't abandon that unless something like the Denver Broncos show up where all his problems get solved in one swoop.
 

RamFan503

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It's impossible for the Davis's to lose control of the team by hostile takeover or almost impossible for the NFL to remove them as owners. Their owned by a limited partnership and the Davis's are the managing partners. Al Davis took control of the team in 1972 by drafting a new partnership agreement that gave him exclusive control of the team.
Actually, even with what you are saying - which I don't believe is incorrect - the NFL might be able to make things difficult for him - especially if Davis mismanages the team to a point the owners find untenable. They may not be able to legally force him to sell but it is up to the NFL to approve an owner. If Davis is in a position of either having to sell the team or lose it for financial reasons, he is likely to sell the team to an owner hand picked by the NFL. Also, if he is deemed to have been mishandling the partnership, the other partners can indeed sue and force him out.
 

bluecoconuts

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He would still accomplish all of those things in buying the raiders. there is plenty to suggest that he would sell the rams.

1) If the bronco's would have come up for sale, he probably would have already sold the rams
2) Inglewood still won't say that it is in fact "the rams" moving to the new stadium.
3) Dave Peacock has alluded to the fact that the Rams might stay in STL under new ownership. And he doesn't seem to be a guy who throws out speculation like that lightly.
4)since Stan doesn't talk, other sources, and common sense are really all we have to go by.

And as far as legacy goes, he would not only be the guy who brought the NFL back to LA, (which, in my opinion, you have an over-the-top vision of grandeur about). His legacy would also be the guy who sold out his home state by removing the NFL from the city that gave him his first and middle name. He could solve that by leaving the STL Rams where they are and buying the LA Raiders, all the while amassing a fortune, building an empire behind one way glass in a dimly lit room.

1) If he builds Inglewood why would he want the Broncos? He can't move them there, and why spend that kind of cash just to turn around and buy another team? Unless the Broncos come up for sale before the end of the year, which I don't see happening, that scenario seems to be out.

2) Inglewood is being smart about it, in a way it makes it more legitimate because they're not out parading things around for a big show. Demoff is involved with Inglewood though, so that should answer that question.

3) I don't see Kroenke selling, and honestly if he was thinking about it, I don't think Peacock would know. Why would he? Doesn't make any sense, and remember part of Peacock's job is to keep fan spirits high.

4) Agreed, and thus far I haven't seen anything to suggest he's looking to sell or trade. Everything that I've seen have suggested he isn't looking to do that.

As far as legacy goes, the harsh truth is that he'll be more known as a guy who brought the NFL back to LA, the guy who owns an LA team, than the guy who ditched his home state. Los Angeles is an international city, teams often internationally known because of this. I love St Louis, but it's not that, it's just a harsh reality. Far fewer people will know/remember/care about that aspect.
 

bluecoconuts

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Personally I do not believe Kroenke cares a whit about this team and the way its been built recently. He is not like Arthur Blank on the sidelines every week visibly dying with his team's losses or little Danny Snyder or Jerry Jones. He is a greed monster interested in finances and profits and valuations and NOTHING else.

I was not thinking about swapping teams...I was thinking about Mark Davis lacking the money to fight off a hostile takeover of the Raiders, and that the league could facilitate his ouster if they chose just as easily as they could allow the Rams to move. There are plenty of reasons to think the guy with the least amount of financial clout will be the one to eventually be on the wrong end of the red-hot poker in the end. Davis is the owner with the least ability to influence events and that's usually the guy to get table scraps at best.

Kroenke has the most money and likely the least league approval for a move (at least by the letter of the guidelines anyway).
Spanos is not in Kroenke's financial district, but the owners seem to like him better than Kroenke.
Davis is the guy on the short stack, the dead man owning, the guy most likely to be without a chair when the music finally ends.

Davis doesn't really own all that much of the Raiders though, Kroenke essentially owns all of the Rams (if he doesn't he's expected to soon I believe), so why go and have to buy out like 20 different people to stage a hostile takeover when you already have a team?
 

ChrisW

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Davis doesn't really own all that much of the Raiders though, Kroenke essentially owns all of the Rams (if he doesn't he's expected to soon I believe), so why go and have to buy out like 20 different people to stage a hostile takeover when you already have a team?

AFAIK, you only need the controlling interest. Davis doesn't own anything, I believe Mark's wife has controlling interest, does she not?
 

blue4

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1) If he builds Inglewood why would he want the Broncos? He can't move them there, and why spend that kind of cash just to turn around and buy another team? Unless the Broncos come up for sale before the end of the year, which I don't see happening, that scenario seems to be out.

2) Inglewood is being smart about it, in a way it makes it more legitimate because they're not out parading things around for a big show. Demoff is involved with Inglewood though, so that should answer that question.

3) I don't see Kroenke selling, and honestly if he was thinking about it, I don't think Peacock would know. Why would he? Doesn't make any sense, and remember part of Peacock's job is to keep fan spirits high.

4) Agreed, and thus far I haven't seen anything to suggest he's looking to sell or trade. Everything that I've seen have suggested he isn't looking to do that.

As far as legacy goes, the harsh truth is that he'll be more known as a guy who brought the NFL back to LA, the guy who owns an LA team, than the guy who ditched his home state. Los Angeles is an international city, teams often internationally known because of this. I love St Louis, but it's not that, it's just a harsh reality. Far fewer people will know/remember/care about that aspect.


As far as legacy goes, the harsh truth as I see it is that Stan very likely does not care about being internationally known. He already has that far and away by being the Arsenal owner. The LA Rams are a mild footnote compared to a major soccer team, as far as the rest of the world is concerned. I think the notion that this kind of stuff concerns him is kind of absurd. He gets prestige by owning the L.A. Rams, he loses some as well by publicly screwing over the place of his birth. Regardless of "the international flavor" of St Louis that's a story that sticks with a man. So, IMO speculation that he has motives other than money aren't really well grounded.
 

rams2050

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http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tm_medium=email&utm_content=featured_headline


Contractors on clock for new football stadium

ST. LOUIS • On an unseasonably warm day this winter, 10 members of a relatively unknown public board unanimously voted to begin hiring contractors for a new riverfront football stadium.

It was Jan. 29. The meeting lasted nine minutes. Gov. Jay Nixon’s two-man stadium task force had said, for the prior month, that planning work had largely been done pro bono.

The resolution signed that day authorized the chairman and executive director of the St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority, the agency that owns and operates the Edward Jones Dome, to begin paying for work planning the new arena.

But contractors were already on the clock.

Account statements, invoices and contracts obtained by the Post-Dispatch show that the Authority’s general counsel, Blitz, Bardgett and Deutsch, had billed the board $27,982.50 for work on the new stadium — in December. Architecture firm HOK had charged the Authority $50,495.44 on Dec. 30.

Even the Authority’s contract with its first official hire, stadium construction manager John Loyd, was dated Jan. 22, though it wasn’t signed until after the board meeting a week later.

Since then, dome Authority Executive Director Brian McMurtry and board Chairman Jim Shrewsbury, a Nixon appointee, have authorized the hiring of or payments to more than a dozen firms.

They’ve signed architects, engineers, surveyors, planners, contract attorneys, tax attorneys and bond attorneys to contracts totaling at least $40 million. Contractors have already invoiced the Authority for about $800,000, all toward the development of a stadium that may never be built.

“The thing I worry about the most is that we’re spending money now, and we may not get a favorable decision,” board chairman Shrewsbury told the Post-Dispatch at the end of March. “Then we’ll have to make up those funds to continue to pay off the bonds. That is my major concern.”

He reiterated that worry on Wednesday. “This is a gamble,” he said. “It's not a reckless gamble. But it is a gamble.”

Last week, Nixon’s task force — Jones Dome counsel Bob Blitz and former Anheuser-Busch executive Dave Peacock, plus Loyd and an HOK design chief — traveled to NFL headquarters in New York City to pitch their proposal for a $985 million open-air stadium on the Mississippi riverfrontnorth of downtown. It was the first time they presented their proposal in person to a key NFL owners' group, the Committee on Los Angeles Opportunities, which will recommend which team or teams might move to L.A.

Stan Kroenke, owner of the St. Louis Rams, is a frontrunner in the race.

'THAT ALL COSTS MONEY'

The new-stadium spending is not yet a serious problem, Shrewsbury said. “There’s a difference,” he said, “between maxing out your credit card and mortgaging your house.”

But Shrewsbury and other leaders at the Jones Dome have long warned of dire finances to come.

McMurtry told public officials last summer that the Dome authority would burn through its $16 million savings in just six years. And if spending continued at that pace, he added, in 15 years the Dome will be nearly $62 million in the hole.

He suggested then — well before the authority began spending money on development of a new stadium — that a $40 million bond issue might be necessary.

Authority bank accounts are holding relatively level so far; they now stand at about $17 million. But there’s still more than $100 million in debt to pay down on the Dome.

McMurtry did not return phone calls seeking comment.

Blitz, the Authority’s general counsel, argues that the region needs a new NFL arena, that the planning has required some spending, and that the dome Authority has plenty of money, at least in the short term, to cover it.

Yes, he said, at first, some contractors worked for free.

“But once we had to start meeting with the NFL, and meeting their requirements — they didn’t just want to see a pretty picture. They want to see schematic drawings. They want to see details,” Blitz said earlier this week. “They want to know that you have the right team to build an NFL stadium. And that all costs money.”

DIGGING TUNNELS, MOVING TOWERS

More than half of the money invoiced so far — about $380,000 — is to pay architects HOK. If the stadium is built, that contract is worth $39 million.

The other invoices amount to less — $171,000 to Blitz’s firm, $100,000 to Loyd, $73,000 to Thompson Coburn, for instance.

But they do more than count dollars. The invoices and contracts shed light on the complicated tasks in front of the stadium task force.

Invoices sent by the state’s municipal finance advisors, Columbia Capital, show the company started analyzing financing options on Jan. 6, three days before the task force announced plans to build a riverfront stadium. Four employees at the Kansas City firm, which sends its bills to the state, not the dome Authority, have now worked 48 days altogether, logged more than 90 hours and billed about $14,000 on the project.

The contract with Ameren Missouri shows that the dome Authority has set aside $325,000 to move the company’s gigantic transmission towers, which bear the power lines traversing the Mississippi River into Illinois.

The St. Louis environmental engineering firm, Geotechnology, is analyzing the soil and rock under the stadium site, in preparation for such heavy tasks as building parking garages, relocating the transmission towers, constructing a stadium next to a flood wall, and digging a tunnel through which a railroad will be rerouted. The contract is worth $26,800.

And the Pennsylvania venue management firm SMG will get about $200,000 to analyze the St. Louis market, compare the market to other NFL cities, develop a five-year stadium operating plan, project Rams net operating income and expenses, identify other stadium revenue sources, provide a 30-year capital improvement schedule, and develop an NFL negotiations strategy, among other things.

One contract is still free: The public relations firm FleishmanHillard is donating up to $75,000 in fees, and hasn't yet billed the Authority. In addition, Peacock and Blitz say they are working for free.

Blitz said he knew of just one contract that was competitively bid — the one announced last week, hiring the local construction conglomerate, HCKL, for a still unannounced cost.

He and Peacock have both said they are keeping a close eye on expenses. “We have been as cost-conscious and contract-conscious as we can be,” Blitz said. Peacock said he's spent $15,000 of his own money on the project.

The Authority gets $24 million a year, in total, from St. Louis, St. Louis County and the state. Of that, $4 million a year is set aside for dome upkeep. “So we’ve got plenty of money to maintain the Dome,” Blitz said.

Moreover, he said, the Authority can terminate the contracts at will. “Tomorrow, if the NFL says, ‘Guess what, St. Louis, you don’t have a team,’ we don’t even have to go through the end of schematic design,” he said.

Shrewsbury, however, noted that, no matter what, at some point, someone will have to back-fill the Authority's bank accounts and make up for the current spending.

A few board members at the dome Authority have also promised to watch it all carefully.

After the January meeting, board member Jerry Wallach approached Peacock. “I would just like to see where the money’s going,” he said.

“That’s a reasonable request,” Peacock replied. “We’ve got to be transparent.”

“Absolutely,” Wallach replied. “And we are.”

“No one should expect an authority to give up their authority,” Peacock said. “That’s what they’re there for.”
 

Hacksaw

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AFAIK, you only need the controlling interest. Davis doesn't own anything, I believe Mark's wife has controlling interest, does she not?
Chris,
Al Davis bought a 10% interest in the Oakland Raiders for $18,500 in 1966 and increased his stake to 67% over the years before selling 20% of the NFL team for $150 million in 2007.
Majority owner: Mark Davis, 60
Minority owners: There are several low-profile investors, but Davis controls the franchise.
BTW, Carol is Al's widow if that is who you were referring to.
 

dbrooks25

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Over time I imagine who ever is here will catch on. I remember going to a Raiders Chargers game in LA. I didn't wear my colors on purpose. During the 3rd qtr I went to the head and upon entering I found a bloody Chargers fan half unconscious on the floor soaked in pee pee. Yeah I want those f'ers repping my town.
We want the Rams back.
And I'm not that old. But thanks
I feel ya, and we want the Rams to stay. If L.A. fans who haven't had an NFL team at all for over 20 years don't want the Raiders there, then why do many think Stl fans will be ok with the NFL removing the Rams and replacing them with the Raiders?
 

MrMotes

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I feel ya, and we want the Rams to stay. If L.A. fans who haven't had an NFL team at all for over 20 years don't want the Raiders there, then why do many think Stl fans will be ok with the NFL removing the Rams and replacing them with the Raiders?

I think it's fair to say that Rams fans want their team to be the Rams.

And wherever the Raiders end up, they will have fans, though it may not be any of us...
 

tonyl711

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Over time I imagine who ever is here will catch on. I remember going to a Raiders Chargers game in LA. I didn't wear my colors on purpose. During the 3rd qtr I went to the head and upon entering I found a bloody Chargers fan half unconscious on the floor soaked in pee pee. Yeah I want those f'ers repping my town.
We want the Rams back.
And I'm not that old. But thanks
when the Rams came to St Louis I had a very hard time imagining I would ever care about them, but by the time of the season opener that first year I was hooked. LA would embrace whatever team goes there IMO.
 

ChrisW

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Chris,
Al Davis bought a 10% interest in the Oakland Raiders for $18,500 in 1966 and increased his stake to 67% over the years before selling 20% of the NFL team for $150 million in 2007.
Majority owner: Mark Davis, 60
Minority owners: There are several low-profile investors, but Davis controls the franchise.
BTW, Carol is Al's widow if that is who you were referring to.

I meant Al's wife. But ok, you cleared it up for me.
 

blue4

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I feel ya, and we want the Rams to stay. If L.A. fans who haven't had an NFL team at all for over 20 years don't want the Raiders there, then why do many think Stl fans will be ok with the NFL removing the Rams and replacing them with the Raiders?

Because this is a Rams board, where we tend to be a little more invested than your average fan. It's my feeling that the residents of LA and St Louis would be very happy being an NFL city, regardless of team. When faced with a team or nothing, I've no doubt most fans would take having a team, and it would take one good season to win the rest over. Just like how the ST Louis football cardinal fans disappeared without a trace after 1999. The only reason LA still gives a hoot about the Rams is because they've had nothing else. And that's not a put down.
 

Username

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So what? Are you going to find love letters for any billionaire team owner? The nerve of him actually taking a dividend from a team he bought. How dare he?

I'm guessing those same fans (see hooligans) were partying pretty hardy after winning the cup.

They're probably happy, but I think half of the world doesn't really give a shit about the FA cup one way or another. Maybe half of England even.
 

bluecoconuts

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As far as legacy goes, the harsh truth as I see it is that Stan very likely does not care about being internationally known. He already has that far and away by being the Arsenal owner. The LA Rams are a mild footnote compared to a major soccer team, as far as the rest of the world is concerned. I think the notion that this kind of stuff concerns him is kind of absurd. He gets prestige by owning the L.A. Rams, he loses some as well by publicly screwing over the place of his birth. Regardless of "the international flavor" of St Louis that's a story that sticks with a man. So, IMO speculation that he has motives other than money aren't really well grounded.

The thing is he probably gets more by being the owner of the LA Rams than he loses by leaving St Louis. Sure, St Louis fans would care, especially if they don't have a team that replaces the Rams, but would other fans care? I'd have to say the vast majority wouldn't care at all. Did people say "Oh I can't like the Titans, Bud Adams left Houston for no reason other than to make more money!"

No, I never heard a peep about that. I'm sure Houston fans were plenty salty, but the vast majority? I don't really think so. Ultimately I don't think Stan backs away because he's afraid his legacy among St Louis takes a hit.
 

RamFan503

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AFAIK, you only need the controlling interest. Davis doesn't own anything, I believe Mark's wife has controlling interest, does she not?
Wouldn't know. This is the most I've thought about the Raiduhs since.... I dunno - ever?
 

RamFan503

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when the Rams came to St Louis I had a very hard time imagining I would ever care about them, but by the time of the season opener that first year I was hooked. LA would embrace whatever team goes there IMO.
You may be right but I doubt that would include many of the Rams fans that have followed the Rams the entire time they have been in St Louis.
 

RamFan503

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They're probably happy, but I think half of the world doesn't really give a crap about the FA cup one way or another. Maybe half of England even.
Yeah - I have to admit, I only know what the FA Cup is because I looked it up. Sadly, I had looked it up before but couldn't even remember what it was called.
The only reason LA still gives a hoot about the Rams is because they've had nothing else. And that's not a put down.
I'm not taking it as a put down but just as there are still Cards fans in St Louis (and there are), there would be Rams fans in LA - just more of them due to sheer numbers. There would no doubt be less if LA had another team but who knows how many really.

As I've said before, I moved from LA long before the Rams did so there wouldn't really be any reason for me to follow a different LA team anyway.
 
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