My Fisher roller coaster ride continues

[WarnerToBruce]

First, I was one of the happiest honks around when we won the battle with Miami over bringing Fish to the Rams.

Next phase, I continued to sing his praises during the darkening days, all the while questioning silently if maybe I was wrong all along...

Then came the "can't find the flag" fiasco in NE, and I was officially off his bandwagon and pulling for ED to get his way. I even became bitter at all the jack he earned while he steered this canoe of an offense against the other jet engine speedboats of the NFL.

Now, after watching the Amazon "All or Nothing" series, I have experienced closure on the matter. Those little side comments to other coaches (completely unscripted, as opposed to Hard Knocks) gave me further insight into who he is and what he was about. As with most things in life, things are not as good nor bad as they seem. People are not as good and bad as they seem. He was not perfect, but he had a lot of outstanding qualities.

Although I don't feel badly for him, given how well-paid he was, I sure do come out the other side wondering how things would have been different if he had SB fully healthy as when he signed up for this gig.

Again, closure. I can now open the new chapter and hope that McVay is 1/2 the guy he seems to be in the early going.

Go Rams!

 

[nighttrain]

Fish is not a competent HC, end of story
train

 

[den-the-coach]

When the Rams hired Jeff Fisher I was pleased because the Rams had hired two coordinators with no Head Coaching experience and they were colossal failures, but have proved even afterwards to be very competent coordinators.

My confidence in Fisher started to wane when he hired Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson. Did not understand the decision whatsoever and the fact that Jackson was a former Head Coach should have made the decision even easier plus a far better track record.

Fisher also whiffed on the offensive line, the free agents like Jake Long & Scott Wells did not perform and were injured and the draft choices like Greg Robinson also failed, but all of us knew the offense was a disgrace and Fisher was not evolving he was recoiling. Fisher would try to go back in time with a RB like Eddie George and bad run of luck with Bradford led for Fisher looking for the next Kerry Collins.

Overall I expected a 9-7 or 10-6 record, but never thought he was the guy to take the Rams back to the big dance and I realizie Sean McVay has not coached a game, but I do feel like he's the guy to take us back to the promise land.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Fisher would still make a good DC.

 

[JackDRams]

When the Rams hired Jeff Fisher I was pleased because the Rams had hired two coordinators with no Head Coaching experience and they were colossal failures, but have proved even afterwards to be very competent coordinators.

My confidence in Fisher started to wane when he hired Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson. Did not understand the decision whatsoever and the fact that Jackson was a former Head Coach should have made the decision even easier plus a far better track record.

Fisher also whiffed on the offensive line, the free agents like Jake Long & Scott Wells did not perform and were injured and the draft choices like Greg Robinson also failed, but all of us knew the offense was a disgrace and Fisher was not evolving he was recoiling. Fisher would try to go back in time with a RB like Eddie George and bad run of luck with Bradford led for Fisher looking for the next Kerry Collins.

Overall I expected a 9-7 or 10-6 record, but never thought he was the guy to take the Rams back to the big dance and I realizie Sean McVay has not coached a game, but I do feel like he's the guy to take us back to the promise land.

There's reason why head coaches typically don't hire head coaches as their coordinators. It's clear to all of us, over the last handful of years, that it's Fishers way or the highway. Hiring someone that might pressure him in a certain direction, or create doubt about Fish' decisions, is exactly what Fisher was trying to avoid. That's why he hired a GM that was ok with allowing him to make the personel decisions.

 

[sjm1582002]

Fisher quickly got the Rams respectable.

That ended up being the big "highlight" of his tenure. Considering the Ram's recent history, Fisher was a welcome, and significant, improvement.

However, there seems to be only so far these "we will win with defense and a powerful running game" HC's can take a team these days.

Every now and then you get a 85 Bears, 2001 Ravens, or recent Bronocs team that rides a dominant defense to a championship.

Give me that franchise QB, a top flight LT, and some folks who can get after the opposing QB. Attack like Coryell or Martz would have.

This is 2017, not 1968.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Fisher is not a current day type of head coach. His refusal to embrace the modern passing game, was his downfall from day 1. It was over before it started. We all saw it. We got excited with the improvement on defense but the offense never went anywhere. He is a less boisterous Rex Ryan. It's funny that they both learned from Buddy, who was not so talkative.

 

[Merlin]

My confidence in Fisher started to wane when he hired Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson.

That is the central reason for his failure right there. Had he made a good OC hire everything would have been different, and he had a quality guy who made his own bones in this league sitting in front of him in Hue Jackson but couldn't see how poor a hire the Schotty Jr move was. The difference between him and "good" head coaches is his staff hiring record on the offensive side of the ball.

What is amazing to me, too, is that if we were to sit down with the dude and discuss it over some brews I'll bet he is oblivious to that fact. I'll bet he doesn't see the difference between the guys he brought in and those who have success. This is why I don't defend him any more, even though I maintain he has a lot of good elements to him as a head coach and leader of men.

Another thing I believe is that he rose too quickly in the NFL ranks. He knows defense, but not to the extent of the elite defensive minds. Jeff's strength is not Xs and Os, it's leading the men. And unfortunately in this day and age you gotta have a guy who can lock down one side of the ball in your head coaching position IMO.

 

[den-the-coach]

That is the central reason for his failure right there. Had he made a good OC hire everything would have been different, and he had a quality guy who made his own bones in this league sitting in front of him in Hue Jackson but couldn't see how poor a hire the Schotty Jr move was.

Now this is just speculation on my part, but I know he interviewed Schottenheimer first because he was available and Schotty has the ability to interview very well and is affable, in fact, the Jets would have hired him as Head Coach back in 2009, but they felt he did not have enough experience and any Head Coach they interviewed back then the Jets made it a point that he had to keep Schottenheimer as OC.

So Fisher interviews Schotty and obviously came away impressed because they both had a home in Nashville and all that Jazz, then Jackson becomes available. Now fast forward to Tim Walton, Fisher hired Walton, but when Gregg Williams was available Fisher hand to mend fences to bring him back, but he did because he knew Williams was superior to Walton.

I don't know why Fisher did not realize the opportunity with Jackson maybe he felt Jackson would be off & running to be another Head Coach some have posted Fisher did not hire any former Head Coaches on his staff besides Dave McGinnis, but I always wondered why with all the opportunity press people have nobody asked Fisher that question right from the start and why they never asked him why he did not look into hiring a high profile OC that had been at the very minimum an offensive coordinator at the NFL level.

When he was in Tennessee, he hired Les Steckel who had been a Head Coach before then hired Mike Heimerdinger who was on everyone's short list as an OC working under Mike Shanahan in Denver and then Norm Chow, who was a high profile OC in college. A far better track record then with the Rams...Will never understand, but that very reason is why Jeff Fisher is now on the outside looking in and will never ever be a Head Coach at the NFL level unless it's on an interim basis.

 

[dieterbrock]

Fisher had a 5 year run in which he went 56-24 and outside of that run, he has been 117-141-1.
Had the Music City miracle been called correctly, his playoff record would be 2-6

He's clearly a pretty awesome guy and as much as I dislike what became of the team, you cant help but like the guy for who he appears to be. But he's gotten way too much mileage out of a fluke win and a short run. The rest of his career has been pretty lousy

 

[den-the-coach]

FWIW's I will throw this out there, if Butch Jones really struggles at Tennessee and they make a coaching change I could see Jeff Fisher being on the short list. However, I guarantee you, he will hire a high profile college offensive coordinator, but I could see Fisher getting play in college because that is the only way, he will be a Head Coach again at the collegiate level and if Jones fails the Volunteers will be at a crossroads in their program and they will hope Fisher is the next Pete Carroll.

 

[Classic Rams]

Fisher is overrated, obviously, and that's nothing new. The series shows us the human side, that he cares. But he's still overrated as a head coach. I don't even know that he's that good of a DC either despite any stars on the resume. He worked with some good players and coaches, but was never one himself. Fisher the man though is something that this AoN series sells us and that's why some can empathize with his situation. But if you can't get the team to where they need to be in the alotted time frame, you're out, nice caring guy or not. I remember working with a nice guy, a real gentleman, several years ago who just could not cut it as a graphic designer on our team. I saw no improvements, despite that he got along well with everyone and we liked him personally to a fault. He didn't last. Bottom line for these situations is results.

On another subject, I still SMH at the tactics/demeanor of G. Williams and his goon Waufle in this series.

 

[den-the-coach]

On another subject, I still SMH at the tactics/demeanor of G. Williams and his goon Waufle in this series.

Again it's a different style and both men have had outstanding results at their craft. I guess if you ever gone through military training, you would not SYH. Not that I'm condoning those tactics, but they are very good assistant coaches.

Bill Belichick dresses like a Bolshevik and grunts when he speaks and at his press conference always regurgitates the same diatribe regardless of a win or a loss..."Players have to play better and coaches have to coach better." The results is what matters and Williams & especially Waufle are considered tops in their profession.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Every now and then you get a 85 Bears, 2001 Ravens, or recent Bronocs team that rides a dominant defense to a championship.

Don't forget to add the 1969 Rams to this group! They Won their 1st 9 games and had 37+ Sacks in those 9 games! Thanks to George Allen - and the Fearsome-Foursome! OK! They had Babe and the Gang too!!

 

[LesBaker]

My confidence in Fisher started to wane when he hired Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson. Did not understand the decision whatsoever and the fact that Jackson was a former Head Coach should have made the decision even easier plus a far better track record.

Jackson is struggling in CLE and the reason is no QB.

His refusal to embrace the modern passing game, was his downfall from day 1. It was over before it started.

He hired terrible OC's and that did him in. I don't think he got involved with the O so I don't think he failed to embrace the current form of offenses. His hires were HORRIBLE.

Jeff's strength is not Xs and Os, it's leading the men

Merlin you just summed it up perfectly.

Fisher had a 5 year run in which he went 56-24 and outside of that run, he has been 117-141-1.

The ongoing (a few years long) discussion about Fisher, and me looking into his record year by year is what ultimately cemented my position about the 3 most important people on a teams payroll. If you look at Fishers history other than a mostly or completely healthy McNair he's had two things working against him. A lousy QB and a lousy owner. It's hard to win with that.

Some of you may have read that I feel that almost without exception the HC is less important than the GM, the QB and the owner. I say that because a lot of "top flight" HC's don't win when they lose the QB, the worst thing a team can have happen is to have the starter miss several games. Think about when a HC ends up coaching a team without a good QB and without a GM that can evaluate and pick talent. Think about what the winning percentage in the NFL is with backup QB's or how many times a team goes downhill because they can't pick and identify talent very well.

Fisher for much of his coaching career never had a chance to begin with. Some is/was self inflicted (identifying talent) but some of it was external.

 

[PhillyRam]

He had a bad luck with Bradford, then when he lost a somewhat competent Offensive Coordinator in Schottenhiemer, he had no chance to get a good coordinator because everyone assumed he was going to get fired especially since they had no QB.

Biggest mistake by him was not bringing on a young QB to compete with Bradford so they had someone to fallback on when he got hurt. Kind of like Cousins in DC.

So he had garbage starters while Bradford missed time and again by then everyone assumed he would not last long so no accomplished coordinator would take that job.

 

[den-the-coach]

Jackson is struggling in CLE and the reason is no QB.




.

Come on Les, you're better than this, Jackson did a great job as OC for the Bengals as he waited as the WR Coach before Jay Gruden got the Redskin gig. Hue Jackson would have been head & shoulders above Schottenheimer, who is not just a QB coach failing as a coordinator not only with the Rams, but at the collegiate level too. (Georgia).

 

[Merlin]

When he was in Tennessee, he hired Les Steckel who had been a Head Coach before then hired Mike Heimerdinger who was on everyone's short list as an OC working under Mike Shanahan in Denver and then Norm Chow, who was a high profile OC in college. A far better track record then with the Rams...Will never understand, but that very reason is why Jeff Fisher is now on the outside looking in and will never ever be a Head Coach at the NFL level unless it's on an interim basis.

This also leads into the coaching tree discussion, which is an area that demonstrates how poor his hires have been. Dinger was bad luck with his health and all, but outside of him the only assistant Jeff produced of head coaching capability was Schwartz.

That is one barren coaching tree for a guy with a bazillion years at the helm. If he gets another shot at it he'd be wise to hire a consultant to bring in his OC. I'm serious.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

This also leads into the coaching tree discussion, which is an area that demonstrates how poor his hires have been. Dinger was bad luck with his health and all, but outside of him the only assistant Jeff produced of head coaching capability was Schwartz.

That is one barren coaching tree for a guy with a bazillion years at the helm. If he gets another shot at it he'd be wise to hire a consultant to bring in his OC. I'm serious.

Really good point on Fisher's coaching tree

Imagine what Sean McVay's freakin' coaching tree might end up loooking if he succeeds here with us. I mean he has some really exciting coaches on this staff - i mean Wade Phillips!!! I would have taken him as our head coach. Then guys on the offensive side of the ball! his legacy might be great

I truly look forward to the upcoming season and playing tough smart football. I think with a few wins and solid showings on both aides of the ball will end these kinds of threads