MMQB - Oopsed when I merged. This is Den's Dysfunction thread.

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Psycho_X

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Austin was an over-reach. He probably would have been there in the second round. Plus he hasn't been used properly.

Bailey was shot in the head. Not anyone's fault obviously. He was a good pick. Chalk that up to bad luck

Robinson was a pick made on potential alone, a fatal flaw repeated often by the Rams front office.

Mason had a mental breakdown. Chalk that up to bad luck as well.

I think them saying these picks were lazy has to do with the pairs being teammates. Which, I will admit, I had the same thoughts at the time of drafting them. The drafting from Auburn or connections to Auburn a lot of the time. And drafting teammates of other draft picks a lot. Like our drafters are thinking, Mason had a hell of a year running behind Robinson so we should draft both and they can do the same thing here. Or, Bailey and Austin were an amazing one/two punch at WV so lets draft both and replicate it. Can't say I see complete flaw in that logic and, like you said, Mason going nuts and Bailey's gunshots kind of threw that out the door.

But I can see where they are coming from with the "lazy" comment all though it's hard to really quantify that since you have no idea if they bumped someone like Bailey or Tre over another player JUST because they were teammates of an earlier pick. But it definitely is something I took notice to when it happened. And will be curious if people get fired whether stuff like that comes out. Would be interesting to see.... or frustrating more likely.... to see who someone else preferred if they did.

Either way, this is quickly turning into a witch hunt now with the media. And it's going to get worse I'm afraid. It reminds me a lot of Martz's last days with all of the "throat slasher" and Zygmunt bullshit that went on between them and Martz. Once the rumors and "sources" start it seems to multiply way too fast to stay in front of.
 

JIMERAMS

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well Fisher did say WE not THEY. im not sure how you guys read he is blaming Snead for anything.
 

jrry32

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If this is true, it's another reason to move on.
 

Prime Time

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It reminds me a lot of Martz's last days with all of the "throat slasher" and Zygmunt bullcrap that went on between them and Martz.

Good analogy. Although I appreciated what Martz had accomplished, I wanted him gone so the nonsense would end and some stability would be brought to the organization. Same thing now.
 

den-the-coach

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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There were some very good tackles in that draft....My favorite was Jake Lewan....He had an outstanding combine. He played with the ferocity & instincts of a future All-Pro...When I heard him speak during an interview after his first season, I couldn't understand why this dude wasn't our 1st pick...We could have EASILY traded back and grabbed him, or just grabbed him outright...Who ever made this call blew it...and should be held accountable. And I gotta go Les and his scouts...A little blame must go to Boudreau as well...While Greg is limited and "raw"...he should have been better than what he is...ESPECIALLY as a run blocker. All coach boo there..

Taylor Lewan had some off field issues and there were questions if he could play LT, however, compared to Robinson, he was more football ready and was much smarter as well. IMO, what his hurting Robinson is his overall ability to pick up schemes and he reaches all the time and holds, he did at Auburn and he has not adjusted fast enough IMHO, but yes Lewan would have been the better choice.
 

JIMERAMS

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Good analogy. Although I appreciated what Martz had accomplished, I wanted him gone so the nonsense would end and some stability would be brought to the organization. Same thing now.

ya that worked out well.
 

Merlin

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This type of story is a death knell for a regime. Beginning of the end, IMO, and thankfully it's gonna come swiftly.

Fisher has to go. It's his show, he had 5 years and full power. I simply would not accept his excuse-making to drag others into it. He might not be consistent in holding his personnel accountable, but I am. And I think Stan is too, aside from his obvious respect for Fish.

Snead is up in the air. We don't know, because we don't know whose picks the offensive guys were. That's where this personnel department has failed, but did they twist their rankings and picks to get Fish the guys he wanted? If so, Snead might be safe. Still dicey for him, but there's a chance he's kept around and personally I'd like to see what he can do without the coach calling the shots.
 

blackbart

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When was the last time a source said "Yeah, publish my name"
Well I see Fisher all over his statements. I guess if you are secure in your job and not a little snitch then you are probably ok with having your name tagged. Part of the slime that comes with reporters maybe, for me it means there is a good chance no one said it except the voices in the reporter's head.
 

Stl2La

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Well I see Fisher all over his statements. I guess if you are secure in your job and not a little snitch then you are probably ok with having your name tagged. Part of the slime that comes with reporters maybe, for me it means there is a good chance no one said it except the voices in the reporter's head.

Lol so unnamed sources are snitches now? What did the source snitch on? Looks to me the source was just giving us an insight to the organization's internal disfunction.

I think even you can see that this whole "Fisher ship" is sinking. Get off while you can. You've done a valiant job defending his mediocrity and I give you credit for fighting a losing battle.
 
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Jacobarch

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These are the type of things you will see before people start getting fired. Finger pointing, tbh both of them deserve to go based on their 1st and 2nd round draft picks over the last 5 years especially on offense.

Robinson
Quick
Mason (3rd round)
Austin
Pead

GM's and HC's have been fired for far less.
 

raised_fisT

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Damn, these guys move to LA and all this drama pops up. Unreal. I just want to watch a fun and promising football team. We don't need this shit.
 

DaveFan'51

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[mmqb.si.com]


Rams Junior High: Inside a Dysfunctional Front Office

Jeff Fisher’s recent comments revealed a giant riff between coaches and personnel, with both sides bickering about who’s to blame for the team’s failings. Plus more on Matt Stafford, Gronk and who to watch in Week 14

by Albert Breer
The Rams’ struggles haven’t been limited to the field in their first season back in L.A.

The Rams media session Tuesday didn’t play like a normal press conference inside the team’s temporary headquarters in Thousand Oaks, Calif. It was more like an assembly at what some in the building have come to know as “Rams Junior High.”

Coach Jeff Fisher was the speaker. General manager Les Snead’s new contract was the topic.

“I’m so busy here, I was honestly unaware he was extended. I’m being honest with you, we’re just working here,” Fisher said. “I look at this as being my responsibility, the win-loss record. We need to do a better job from a personnel standpoint. We’ve had some unfortunate things take place with some high picks in Stedman Bailey and Tre Mason and those kinds of things you don’t anticipate.

“But we’re moving forward.”

The comments went over like neutron bomb elsewhere in the ranks of the Rams. And it revealed a problem that’s existed since well before the team arrived on the West Coast.

In this week’s Game Plan, we’ll look at Carson Wentz’s recent struggles, the Patriots without Rob Gronkowski, the Giants’ free-agent class facing a major measuring-stick opportunity, a couple of Heisman finalists and the growth of burgeoning MVP candidate Matthew Stafford.

The Rams have not had a winning season since Fisher and Snead joined the franchise in 2012.

But we start in Los Angeles, with a deeper look into a problem that will be difficult for the Rams to fix going forward. And to be clear: What Fisher said Tuesday about the state of the team’s roster didn’t create a problem, so much as it revealed one that’s existed for quite some time.

The struggling 4-8 Rams host Atlanta on Sunday, then head to Seattle before closing the season with San Francisco and Arizona at home. If the Rams split those four, they’ll match the 2014 low-water mark for Fisher’s five years at the helm. If things don’t get better over the next month, there’s no assurance the club will go forward with any of the current power brokers on the football side.

And when I say “get better,” that means more than just beating the Niners or Falcons. It also means seeing the middle-school lunchroom sniping—the kind that earned the building the “Junior High” nickname—fixed to a reasonable degree.

Fisher’s take about the talent on the roster provides a window into the issue dividing the Rams front office. You can infer that a certain amount of water must flow under a team’s bridge before a high-ranking executive, like Fisher, publicly pees in the company pool.

“It pissed me off because I knew it was meant as a shot,” said one Rams source. “You see it under that umbrella—‘We need to do a better job in personnel.’ OK, but you want everyone to think that you have full control. You can’t have it both ways, and it can’t always be the talent. Look at the roster, 2012 to now. In ’12, Jeff did a masterful job with what he was given. But we’ve gotten more talent, and we’ve gotten worse.”

Fisher and Snead arrived as part of an arranged 2012 marriage after the Rams axed coach Steve Spagnuolo and GM Billy Devaney, and the team outdistanced the Dolphins for the coveted ex-Titans coach. Part of Fisher’s motivation for picking St. Louis was having larger say in personnel decisions, and the organization was structured to reflect that with a partnership between the coach and GM under COO Kevin Demoff.

There are differing accounts of when things soured. Efforts to get comments from both Fisher and Snead were unsuccessful on Wednesday. But the problems have been an open secret in league circles for some time.

Now, this isn’t exactly unusual. San Francisco had issues with Jim Harbaugh and Trent Baalke, which proved irreconcilable. The Colts had their own problems with Chuck Pagano and Ryan Grigson, and those two found a way to make peace and move forward when it seemed impossible. Way back, Giants GM George Young and coach Bill Parcells hated each other all the way to two Super Bowls.

That said, the relationship between Fisher and Snead has been consistently described to me as “toxic.” And it’s been that way for a while.

“It’s always good to have healthy tension between the coach and GM, but that shouldn’t hurt the team or cause finger-pointing,” said another club source. “Over five years, (Tuesday) was the first time you saw public comments. That should never happen. … The organization has given them a long leash. And given that they’ve had time, they have to win, and they have to be able to work together.”

From the coaching side, the only surprise in Fisher’s comments were that they were made publicly. Internally, while acknowledging there’s a talented young core in place (Robert Quinn, Aaron Donald, Todd Gurley, Alec Ogletree, Trumaine Johnson), complaints about the depth of the roster and a failure to strike with draft picks outside the first round haven’t exactly been rare.

As for the personnel side, their retort is swift. After jettisoning Brian Schottenheimer after the 2014 season, Fisher has chosen two first-time offensive coordinators who proved to be in over their heads, and offensive line development has been sparse behind line coach Paul Boudreau. The personnel side will acknowledge the team needs more help there, and at corner and receiver, but point out that losing players like cornerback Janoris Jenkins wasn’t their call.

They’ll also question how hard the team is pushed, with a lack of in-season padded practices being an example of the perceived problem.

Then it starts to get personal. One example: Perception held that Fisher’s guy in scouting for his first four years was Rich Snead (no relation to Les), who was seen as abrasive with scouts and an operative of the coach’s. He left the Rams last winter, amid some feeling that he was a divisive force in the organization.

To his credit, the GM has remained above board through this mess, at least publicly, and in the aftermath of Fisher’s comments. But clearly, there’s blame to go around when a team goes 31-44-1 in five years, without so much as a .500 season along the way.

Can that be fixed by New Year’s Day? It’s become increasingly clear that it better be.
I liked this read, and "IF" Breer's is accurate it could explain a lot! And none of it is good for the Team! I just don't know how much of what Breer says to believe!!
* Why are there a Lack of padded practices!?
* It would appear all the political infighting could be the cause of the poor Coaching and play on Offence. So WHY has our "D" played so well, for the most part, lately!?
* After each Draft, since Fisher/Snead came to town, I have looked deeply at all the Players Drafted and the UDFA's and I like the personnel Brought in! To me that means, the problem is in Coaching and scheme!!
 

blackbart

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Lol so unnamed sources are snitches now? What did the source snitch on? Looks to me the source was just giving us an insight to the organization's internal disfunction.

I think even you can see that this whole "Fisher ship" is sinking. Get off while you can. You've done a valiant job defending his mediocrity and I give you credit for fighting a losing battle.
Yes, if you don't have the balls to man up ad put your name on your words you're a snitch.

As long as anyone, Fisher, Snead, Keenum, JL, etc etc are Rams I will support them. There is plenty of evidence to suggest the Rams have improved significantly and are trending upward. Seeing the things Goff has been able to do already makes me believe continuity over the next 2 years of his career is more important than what some reporters or unnamed resources type.
 

Jacobarch

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Yes, if you don't have the balls to man up ad put your name on your words you're a snitch.

As long as anyone, Fisher, Snead, Keenum, JL, etc etc are Rams I will support them. There is plenty of evidence to suggest the Rams have improved significantly and are trending upward. Seeing the things Goff has been able to do already makes me believe continuity over the next 2 years of his career is more important than what some reporters or unnamed resources type.

That's how journalism works tho. You go behind closed doors say your piece and remain anonymous.
 

JerseyRam1

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You got my point earlier...team mates that filled needs vs completely vetting the BAP at each position. True story, I tweeted Kevin Demoff the night of the Auburn bowl game saying how great the Rams would look with Mason and Robinson in Horns. I even commented on how sharp Auburn looked in all white! I am a lifelong Rams fan a football fan, coached and played the game but building an NFL team is not my full time job!:) Then, in the last two drafts, the went heavy OL and Heavy playmaker on offense. All drafting for need vs best player available. That to me is dysfunctional and lazy. Think of what this team would look like with BPA in the Robinson draft. Mack and Donald would look nice...or, Lewan, Donald and some other pics. Thats how you build a winning franchise!

I think them saying these picks were lazy has to do with the pairs being teammates. Which, I will admit, I had the same thoughts at the time of drafting them. The drafting from Auburn or connections to Auburn a lot of the time. And drafting teammates of other draft picks a lot. Like our drafters are thinking, Mason had a hell of a year running behind Robinson so we should draft both and they can do the same thing here. Or, Bailey and Austin were an amazing one/two punch at WV so lets draft both and replicate it. Can't say I see complete flaw in that logic and, like you said, Mason going nuts and Bailey's gunshots kind of threw that out the door.

But I can see where they are coming from with the "lazy" comment all though it's hard to really quantify that since you have no idea if they bumped someone like Bailey or Tre over another player JUST because they were teammates of an earlier pick. But it definitely is something I took notice to when it happened. And will be curious if people get fired whether stuff like that comes out. Would be interesting to see.... or frustrating more likely.... to see who someone else preferred if they did.

Either way, this is quickly turning into a witch hunt now with the media. And it's going to get worse I'm afraid. It reminds me a lot of Martz's last days with all of the "throat slasher" and Zygmunt bullcrap that went on between them and Martz. Once the rumors and "sources" start it seems to multiply way too fast to stay in front of.
 

Stl2La

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Yes, if you don't have the balls to man up ad put your name on your words you're a snitch.

As long as anyone, Fisher, Snead, Keenum, JL, etc etc are Rams I will support them. There is plenty of evidence to suggest the Rams have improved significantly and are trending upward. Seeing the things Goff has been able to do already makes me believe continuity over the next 2 years of his career is more important than what some reporters or unnamed resources type.

That's not how journalism works I'm sorry.

Plenty of evidence to suggest the Rams
have improved significantly and are trending upwards.

Huh? You can not be serious? What's the evidence? The declining number of wins each season? The fact the Rams have lost 7 of their last 8 games? The offense continually getting worse every year fisher has been coach?

Please don't come back with anything about how fisher took the team for 2 wins to 7 back in 2012. It's almost 2017 now and the team is not trending upward or improving. Actual facts and statistics back me up on that. Goff and Fisher shouldn't be tied together. Cut the cord now before Fisher ruins hiso he can grow with a innovative and winning head coach.
 

Rams43

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Interesting piece by Breer, huh?

Can't say that I'm terribly surprised, though.

Here are my "what to do" thoughts...

First, only Demoff knows whether Snead was making quality O player recommendations, or not. If Snead was making good calls and overidden by Fisher, as I suspect, then Snead stays. And should be given final authority on personnel decisions.

Second, Fisher's gotta go. Period. It's entirely possible that he received good draft picks but mismanaged them. Hell, I would go so far as to say that that's quite likely.

Look at this recent evidence:

Goff
Gurley
Hav
GRob
Tavon

Four 1sts (very, very high ones at that) and a 2nd. All struggling in their 2nd or 3rd year, except for Goff. And Goff sat on the bench for 10 weeks. Does this seem like evidence of an O coaching staff's ability to develop talent considered premium?

January can't come soon enough for me. Sigh...
 

Rmfnlt

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I have inside sources that say the inside source was none other than Todd Hewitt!
:LOL:
 

blackbart

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That's not how journalism works I'm sorry.



Huh? You can not be serious? What's the evidence? The declining number of wins each season? The fact the Rams have lost 7 of their last 8 games? The offense continually getting worse every year fisher has been coach?

Please don't come back with anything about how fisher took the team for 2 wins to 7 back in 2012. It's almost 2017 now and the team is not trending upward or improving. Actual facts and statistics back me up on that. Goff and Fisher shouldn't be tied together. Cut the cord now before Fisher ruins hiso he can grow with a innovative and winning head coach.
Oh you're one of those guys who thinks the W.L record is the only measuring stick?