McVay’s growth

[Tano]

I didn't like the trade initially because of my perception that Stafford was injury prone, wrong, and I worried that availability compared to Goff could be an issue. Also I still think Goff can be great, it will take a bit. I also thought his head coach gave up on him early in the season around Miami and whiner's games. I thought the oline was the biggest issue. That it caused Goff to loose confidence caused him to act erratic. Plus a lot to give up in the trade.
Then after I left the board for a couple of months, I started to watch Stafford on You tube and prior to the draft I started to realize that Stafford could really be what we need. I still believe all those things about Goff above, but I also recognize, that it would be a tall order to coach out some of the bad habits Goff started to exhibit and could take way longer than any of us want to wait on.
Of course now someone would have to be an idiot not to like the trade to this point.

Agree with everything you stated here - I couldn't have put it any better.

 

[Kupped]

I'm not surprised by anything Stafford is doing, to be honest, when I look at the entire situation around him.
Oline has been very solid and his WRs and TE are all healthy and they have a functional running game.
Give McVay someone who makes defenses actually defend the entire field and he's gonna find space for his players all day long.

 

[OntarioRam]

Well yeah, on this forum too.

Here's a couple gems from @OntarioRam:

"Plenty of room on my anti-McVay bandwagon, boys."

"McVay is extremely arrogant. And not at all accountable. He makes the same mistakes repeatedly, yet gets upset at others for doing so. Always looking to point the finger at others"

"Should have promoted Staley to HC and booted McVay."

"Wtf. Goff is just as good as Stafford. And far younger. Awful trade. Do people still want to call me crazy for dumping on McVay?"

To answer the last question: yes, you are indeed crazy for dumping on McVay. Let us know when we can back up the truck full of crow.

I was completely wrong on Stafford. By a country mile. I'll own up to that all day. I thought he was overrated and a guy who couldn't get it done in Detroit. Although the Lions are a crappy franchise, after so much time there, I thought Stafford had to take some blame for that, as well. I thought he was becoming an injury risk too. And I was hardly alone in those sentiments. Watching him now every Sunday, boy, was I wrong. This dude is elite. I am definitely eating crow on that one right now.

The jury is still out on McVay, IMO. I stand by most of my comments on him for now. Of course, time will tell. It's easy to go back and dig out quotes (which I don't have time to do, but if you do that is great) when the Rams are 4-0 and it is September. It is a marathon, not a sprint. What if the Rams lose in the playoffs (God forbid!) while running the ball extremely well when we do hand it off but McVay inexplicably goes extremely pass happy all night, and it burns us? It could easily happen. Among many other nightmare scenarios based on McVay's illustrated shortcomings to date.

For the record, I do think McVay is a good coach. I just disagree with most people on *how* good. I consider him the 2nd best coach in the division, behind Shanahan, and I do suspect Staley will be better with time. But this is an echo chamber, after all, and anyone who doesn't think McVay will retire among the GOATs is clearly an idiot and should be tarred and feathered.

 

[Kupped]

I was completely wrong on Stafford. By a country mile. I'll own up to that all day. I thought he was overrated and a guy who couldn't get it done in Detroit. Although the Lions are a crappy franchise, after so much time there, I thought Stafford had to take some blame for that, as well. I thought he was becoming an injury risk too. And I was hardly alone in those sentiments. Watching him now every Sunday, boy, was I wrong. This dude is elite. I am definitely eating crow on that one right now.

The jury is still out on McVay, IMO. I stand by most of my comments on him for now. Of course, time will tell. It's easy to go back and dig out quotes (which I don't have time to do, but if you do that is great) when the Rams are 4-0 and it is September. It is a marathon, not a sprint. What if the Rams lose in the playoffs (God forbid!) while running the ball extremely well when we do hand it off but McVay inexplicably goes extremely pass happy all night, and it burns us? It could easily happen. Among many other nightmare scenarios based on McVay's illustrated shortcomings to date.

For the record, I do think McVay is a good coach. I just disagree with most people on *how* good. I consider him the 2nd best coach in the division, behind Shanahan, and I do suspect Staley will be better with time. But this is an echo chamber, after all, and anyone who doesn't think McVay will retire among the GOATs is clearly an idiot and should be tarred and feathered.

I would hope that seeing Goff in another situation might put into better context how good McVay is. He’s 46-21 to Shanahan’s 31-36.

I think Shanahan is an excellent coach, just not sure how you make the case he’s better.

 

[dang]

I love Buggs Bunny.

I love Ben and Jerry’s Cherry Garcia.

 

[dang]

I was completely wrong on Stafford. By a country mile. I'll own up to that all day. I thought he was overrated and a guy who couldn't get it done in Detroit. Although the Lions are a crappy franchise, after so much time there, I thought Stafford had to take some blame for that, as well. I thought he was becoming an injury risk too. And I was hardly alone in those sentiments. Watching him now every Sunday, boy, was I wrong. This dude is elite. I am definitely eating crow on that one right now.

The jury is still out on McVay, IMO. I stand by most of my comments on him for now. Of course, time will tell. It's easy to go back and dig out quotes (which I don't have time to do, but if you do that is great) when the Rams are 4-0 and it is September. It is a marathon, not a sprint. What if the Rams lose in the playoffs (God forbid!) while running the ball extremely well when we do hand it off but McVay inexplicably goes extremely pass happy all night, and it burns us? It could easily happen. Among many other nightmare scenarios based on McVay's illustrated shortcomings to date.

For the record, I do think McVay is a good coach. I just disagree with most people on *how* good. I consider him the 2nd best coach in the division, behind Shanahan, and I do suspect Staley will be better with time. But this is an echo chamber, after all, and anyone who doesn't think McVay will retire among the GOATs is clearly an idiot and should be tarred and feathered.

You were credited with one small bite of humble pie until you barfed it back up.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

Does anyone know how much McVay is involved with the defense?

This is an interesting question. Something tells me it's gradually more and more. There's obviously an atmosphere that encourages interaction among coaches and players too. Raheem just talked about hanging out with the OL, Kupp, etc. too.

 

[HellRam]

I would hope that seeing Goff in another situation might put into better context how good McVay is. He’s 46-21 to Shanahan’s 31-36.

I think Shanahan is an excellent coach, just not sure how you make the case he’s better.

Well to be objective Shanahan has called plays for two separate teams in the Superbowl. Matt Ryan hasn't been anything without Shanahan while QBs coached by McVay don't seem any more worse off without McVay. Shanahan also had a lot more rebuilding to do with SF. While McVay inherited the best DT of all time arguably, the best RB in Gurley (at the time) and Goff who showed to be more then capable.

Now I can't honestly say Shanahan is the better coach but in terms of offensive talent he's done more with less compared to McVay. What makes Sean a great coach in my opinion is he has been dynamite with his coaching hires, he runs a great off-season program, his engergy and relatabliblity to his players. McVay is excellent with nuances and he appears to be evolving with his offense which I can't honestly say he did in 2019/2020.

 

[Kupped]

Well to be objective Shanahan has called plays for two separate teams in the Superbowl. Matt Ryan hasn't been anything without Shanahan while QBs coached by McVay don't seem any more worse off without McVay. Shanahan also had a lot more rebuilding to do with SF. While McVay inherited the best DT of all time arguably, the best RB in Gurley (at the time) and Goff who showed to be more then capable.

Now I can't honestly say Shanahan is the better coach but in terms of offensive talent he's done more with less compared to McVay. What makes Sean a great coach in my opinion is he has been dynamite with his coaching hires, he runs a great off-season program, his engergy and relatabliblity to his players. McVay is excellent with nuances and he appears to be evolving with his offense which I can't honestly say he did in 2019/2020.

15 more wins in the same time frame.
McVay took over a perpetual loser and hasn’t had a single losing season.
Shanahan has had one winning season.

 

[LA_vision]

This is an interesting question. Something tells me it's gradually more and more. There's obviously an atmosphere that encourages interaction among coaches and players too. Raheem just talked about hanging out with the OL, Kupp, etc. too.

Must be some, which is why he was frustrated with Wade and replaced him.

 

[1maGoh]

I was completely wrong on Stafford. By a country mile. I'll own up to that all day. I thought he was overrated and a guy who couldn't get it done in Detroit. Although the Lions are a crappy franchise, after so much time there, I thought Stafford had to take some blame for that, as well. I thought he was becoming an injury risk too. And I was hardly alone in those sentiments. Watching him now every Sunday, boy, was I wrong. This dude is elite. I am definitely eating crow on that one right now.

The jury is still out on McVay, IMO. I stand by most of my comments on him for now. Of course, time will tell. It's easy to go back and dig out quotes (which I don't have time to do, but if you do that is great) when the Rams are 4-0 and it is September. It is a marathon, not a sprint. What if the Rams lose in the playoffs (God forbid!) while running the ball extremely well when we do hand it off but McVay inexplicably goes extremely pass happy all night, and it burns us? It could easily happen. Among many other nightmare scenarios based on McVay's illustrated shortcomings to date.

For the record, I do think McVay is a good coach. I just disagree with most people on *how* good. I consider him the 2nd best coach in the division, behind Shanahan, and I do suspect Staley will be better with time. But this is an echo chamber, after all, and anyone who doesn't think McVay will retire among the GOATs is clearly an idiot and should be tarred and feathered.

I didn't think you're an idiot, but I will say I can't see how you can't to any of the conclusions you have.

He doesn't strike me as arrogant at all. Not even a little.

He was clearly right about Stafford over Goff.

I don't think I've ever seen him throw someone else under the bus publicly. At least not until the Goff thing last season. He usually takes the blame on himself. Hell makes roster or playing time moves that might hint at who he's holding accountable for certain things, but again I don't remember any of those being blatantly wrong.

If you want to hold the o line decisions against him, that's fair. He trusted his personnel man and his o line coach. Good leaders do that. They made bad decisions. It's on him but it's also in him to fix it. He's not going to fire himself, so he got a better o line coach. Turns out Kromer may have been part of the problem along with the QB. That's certainly what it looks like now.

He's the head coach so ultimately every failure is his fault. He seems to know that. What he also seems to know is that he can't fix it if he's not around and is his job to fix it. So he has to replace other people so he can fix the issue. I had to tell a guy once that his attitude was wrong for my department. It would be perfectly fine in other places and could even lead to success, but it didn't work with us. I wasn't going to change 17 people's attitudes to match him and he wasn't willing to change himself, so we parted ways amicably. Seems like something similar (although not attitude related) happened with Kromer.

Even if Staley turns out better than McVay, which is a tall order, it will be impossible to separate how much of that is from himself and how much is due to the year he spent learning from McVay.

Shanahan builds/calls a better offense than McVay, sure. So far. We'll see how it goes while McVay has the QB that he figured out he really wants. I don't think Shanny is as involved with the defense and I don't think he's as good at replacing coaches. I could be wrong. If people around the league had as much respect for Shanahan as McVay, they'd be losing coaching staff like we are.

All that to say, I don't think you're an idiot. I do think your position is indefensible. To not see what everyone else sees means you're either a visionary or you're out of touch. In the end it doesn't matter and I'm glad to be able to cheer for the Rams along side you (figuratively, I'm not in Ontario).

 

[Florida_Ram]

Now I can't honestly say Shanahan is the better coach but in terms of offensive talent he's done more with less compared to McVay. What makes Sean a great coach in my opinion is he has been dynamite with his coaching hires, he runs a great off-season program, his engergy and relatabliblity to his players. McVay is excellent with nuances and he appears to be evolving with his offense which I can't honestly say he did in 2019/2020.

Hmmm... I think your opinion and many others that have the perception Shanny is a better coach, mostly holds water because the 49ers have won their last 4 meetings against the Rams.

If you look at their head to head record since 2017 regardless of the Shanny has had less to work with narrative, there is another story imo.

Shanny is 5-3 all time vs McVay

The Rams defenses under McVay hasn't been all that great imo.

Other than McVay's 2020 defense, they've been okay but nothing great.

Jared Goff crumbled in a few of these losses and imo, it wasn't simply because of McVay's coaching.

McVay isn't blameless but being outcoached by Shanny is not that black and white imo.

McVay's loss in their second game in 2017 was because he rested many of his starters in their second meeting 2017.

If McVay was 5-3 vs Shanny, I doubt the narrative would be Shanny is the better coach. It would be pretty damn even. Which is how I currently view them today.

11/29/2020	San Francisco 49ers	23	@	Los Angeles Rams	20	L	Box
10/18/2020	Los Angeles Rams	16	@	San Francisco 49ers	24	L	Box
12/21/2019	Los Angeles Rams	31	@	San Francisco 49ers	34	L	Box
10/13/2019	San Francisco 49ers	20	@	Los Angeles Rams	7	L	Box
12/30/2018	San Francisco 49ers	32	@	Los Angeles Rams	48	W	Box
10/21/2018	Los Angeles Rams	39	@	San Francisco 49ers	10	W	Box
12/31/2017	San Francisco 49ers	34	@	Los Angeles Rams	13	L	Box
09/21/2017	Los Angeles Rams	41	@	San Francisco 49ers	39	W	Box

 

[HellRam]

15 more wins in the same time frame.
McVay took over a perpetual loser and hasn’t had a single losing season.
Shanahan has had one winning season.

Well that's the simple way to look at it. I also made the argument Shanny has called plays in 2 Superbowls compared to McVays one.

To clarify I never said Shanny was a better coach even though I do believe he is the better offensive mind. I love McVay but Shanny is no slouch either like some want to believe.

 

[Kupped]

Well that's the simple way to look at it. I also made the argument Shanny has called plays in 2 Superbowls compared to McVays one.

To clarify I never said Shanny was a better coach even though I do believe he is the better offensive mind. I love McVay but Shanny is no slouch either like some want to believe.

I’m just looking at HC work, but McVay’s work on that front stands up, His unit performed with a mid-round QB as opposed to a #1 overall.
The other poster is saying Shanahan is better.
And I don’t know who the straw man is that you’re talking to on the last point. I think Shanahan is excellent, I just think McVay is better.
McVay is a hell of a coach. Glad he coaches my favorite team.

 

[XXXIVwin]

I was completely wrong on Stafford. By a country mile. I'll own up to that all day. I thought he was overrated and a guy who couldn't get it done in Detroit. Although the Lions are a crappy franchise, after so much time there, I thought Stafford had to take some blame for that, as well. I thought he was becoming an injury risk too. And I was hardly alone in those sentiments. Watching him now every Sunday, boy, was I wrong. This dude is elite. I am definitely eating crow on that one right now.

The jury is still out on McVay, IMO. I stand by most of my comments on him for now. Of course, time will tell. It's easy to go back and dig out quotes (which I don't have time to do, but if you do that is great) when the Rams are 4-0 and it is September. It is a marathon, not a sprint. What if the Rams lose in the playoffs (God forbid!) while running the ball extremely well when we do hand it off but McVay inexplicably goes extremely pass happy all night, and it burns us? It could easily happen. Among many other nightmare scenarios based on McVay's illustrated shortcomings to date.

For the record, I do think McVay is a good coach. I just disagree with most people on *how* good. I consider him the 2nd best coach in the division, behind Shanahan, and I do suspect Staley will be better with time. But this is an echo chamber, after all, and anyone who doesn't think McVay will retire among the GOATs is clearly an idiot and should be tarred and feathered.

Glad to hear you're impressed with Stafford. But I'm surprised this year's fantastic start hasn't lessened your skepticism of McVay.

And for the record, no, I don't think your'e an idiot (you can throw a sentence around with the best of 'em) and I don't think you should be tarred and feathered. At worst, I could imagine sharing a beer with ya at a sports bar and saying, "You gotta be freakin' crazy for doubting McVay!" So nothing personal whatsoever. Just surprised your'e not as stoked about McVay as most ppl around here.

Just wondering, would one Super Bowl victory be enough for you to change your mind about McVay? Or do you require multiple SB wins?

There's no doubt in my mind that McVay is on his way to being a HOF coach. A few random reasons for my confidence in him:

--40-0 as a Ram HC with a lead at halftime. Wow. A shocking stat. The dude knows how to close.
--From worst to first on offense in 2017. Who in the world does that?
--X's and O's. Sure are a lot of analysts and coaches who rave about the "Boy Wonder" and his talent regarding schemes.
--All his assistant coaches get snatched away. Pretty strong evidence that the rest of the league thinks highly of him, right?
--Receivers WIDE OPEN. I remember that as being common back in 2017, when the rest of the league was unable to keep up. I'm seeing it again this year. Kupp's 2nd TD vs. the Bucs... Kupp's long bomb vs. the Bears (no-one was near him)... DJax was wide open least three times vs. the Bucs... many other examples. IMHO, it's not just talented WR's, it's superior scheme.
--Photographic memory. McVay could quite literally tell you every single play he has called on O since he has been the Rams HC. So yeah, I kinda find it silly when ppl say "he shoulda run more" or "he shoulda passed more." The guy is thinking through these things at a level that is about 100 times more detailed than the average fan.
--Super competitive, super driven. The guy is totally obsessed with football and winning.
--"We not me." Not to be overlooked is his ability to get players to "buy in" to his program. Constantly reading books about effective leadership.

To me, it is plainly obvious that McVay is elite at what he does. Just like it's obvious that Ramsey and Donald are elite.

McVay has had 4 winning records in 4 seasons, and he is closing in on a fifth. And there's no end in sight. With Stafford on board, and various superstars locked up for awhile, a manageable salary cap situation, a talented GM, a gorgeous new stadium, an owner willing to pay top dollar.... honestly, I just don't see the streak of winning seasons ending anytime soon.

And as for winning Super Bowls? Well that's the whole enchilada, of course. IMHO, McVay is both insanely talented and obsessively driven. The guy is just not gonna stop grinding until he wins a championship.

And when he does, I hope you'll stop by the victory celebration thread and eat your crow while ya pop the champagne.

 

[Shuie3225]

Well yeah, on this forum too.

Here's a couple gems from @OntarioRam:

"Plenty of room on my anti-McVay bandwagon, boys."

"McVay is extremely arrogant. And not at all accountable. He makes the same mistakes repeatedly, yet gets upset at others for doing so. Always looking to point the finger at others"

"Should have promoted Staley to HC and booted McVay."

"Wtf. Goff is just as good as Stafford. And far younger. Awful trade. Do people still want to call me crazy for dumping on McVay?"

To answer the last question: yes, you are indeed crazy for dumping on McVay. Let us know when we can back up the truck full of crow.

He definitely wasn't the only one shitting on McVay. Not going to call anyone specific out, but there were multiple people in the "Goff is elite" crowd that actually blamed McVay for all Goff's struggles in 2019 + 2020. His play calling, his scheme, his ego, etc. It was pure blasphemy but some people truly believed that stuff. Somehow their love for Goff shielded their brain and heart from seeing the truth in front of them. We are so lucky to have arguably the best HC and leader in football. Not to mention he has arguably the best offensive scheme and is the best play caller. The fact that he is all those things in ONE is absolutely incredible.

 

[den-the-coach]

Yeah he could use a shave

Well, it's the age group or the Clooney concept. IMO, everyone seems from 18-35 needs a shave. I've had the younger gentlemen at work ask me: "You shave everyday Den, whether you're going out or not?" And I reply a resounding "Yes." And they just cannot grasp the concept.

 

[1maGoh]

Well, it's the age group or the Clooney concept. IMO, everyone seems from 18-35 needs a shave. I've had the younger gentlemen at work ask me: "You shave everyday Den, whether you're going out or not?" And I reply a resounding "Yes." And they just cannot grasp the concept.

Yeah, we're not big fans of wasting time so it's difficult for us to understand the practice.

 

[So Ram]

McVay is a great HC. It's nice to see many of the new hires working out. I was a little skeptical. It felt like a big risk. But I've never doubted that he's great at what he does. He was a godsend for us.

jrry32 have you ever graded McSneads drafts & where you stand on there drafting.I know this isn’t truly the forum,but thought it would be a good time to ask for a breakdown.
Then in response to this quote on skepticism.On McVays hiring at first or any of his coaching staff?
As I recall Demoff had the Mcvay & Phillips deal as a package.If Mcvay doesn’t get Wade or a experienced(HC) DC his hiring would never had happened.
— The Biggest risk of all his hiring were Brandon Staley & dude is a HC after only one season under Sean Mcvay which is amazing.
—His growth speaks for itself & his hiring this off season shows it.He has said all offseason how great this group of coaches & players best he has ever been around.He is ready to make a run,but this guys keep him in check.It’s a tight group all together.

 

[So Ram]

Well, it's the age group or the Clooney concept. IMO, everyone seems from 18-35 needs a shave. I've had the younger gentlemen at work ask me: "You shave everyday Den, whether you're going out or not?" And I reply a resounding "Yes." And they just cannot grasp the concept.

My first job was a Disneyland & my thoughts at the time was lack of FREEDOM.
The Yankees as a Sports organization seems to have held players accountable for how they look on the field.
The NBA put a tough dress code in & that has changed the culture.The thing I hate is when you put it into a black & white thing,unless the code is in black & white.
Living by rules, yeah nowadays Inthink this country has lost its core values.I know I have to look at myself in the mirror on how I lived my life.Not all that proud when I have to look deep & within.
Some of these lawmakers & people in control need to get away from the Red & Blue thing & do what’s right for the people & county.The divide thing just makes it that much more complicated.
Sean Mcvay has done things right with this Rams team. The togetherness of THE RAMS ORGANIZATION has been AWESOME!! The culture they have built within The Building has been GREAT. He started it off with a John Wooden like Pyramid. I don’t know if that chart has or ever has changed. I do know there is some hard core VALUES they have as an organization.