McVay has brought more than a winning culture to L.A.

[PARAM]

There was some real 2-14 bullshit before Snead and Fisher got here. People forget how truly bad we were.

Shame on them for forgetting. We should never forget. It makes us appreciate NOW that much more. There was certainly an improvement when Fisher/Snead arrived but the size of the improvement needed was too great. Plus picks like Greg Robinson, Tavon Austin, Quick and Pead didn't help. And I don't recall any late round studs being drafted.

 

[RamsSince1969]

Even in our one "down" year, we had that epic, now legendary, Baker Mayfield primetime game that nobody saw coming (especially the Raiders)!

 

[PARAM]

First thing I noticed about Snead in 2012 was our day 3 picks and UDFAs had improved significantly. We were stockpiling talent that would allow us to break through. Other factors like the logistics of relocating, our starting QB on IR two years in a row, and not being able to put together a cohesive offense held us back.

McVay was the catalyst for many good things, but it was the right place and time for him too.

Outside of Greg Z and Hekker, who?

Stockpiling talent that gave McVay right place, right time? I strongly disagree with that. Too much credit given to Fisher.

31-48-1 was our composite record under him. Let's allow for 'logistics of relocating' and take out the 4-12 2016 season. 27-36-1 still sucks. That's less than 7 wins a season. Not being able to put together a cohesive offense? Over 5 years!!! How about not being able to put an NFL offense on the field? That's poor coaching.

McVay turned it around in 1 off season. His offense and Phillips defense. Also acquiring talent. Whitworth, Sullivan, Woods, Watkins, etc.

Right place, right time? No. Winning culture and premium coaching turned the Rams around. I can't cosign "McVay took over a talented team" like some have espoused. He took over a dumpster fire.

 

[Alaskan Ram]

Even in our one "down" year, we had that epic, now legendary, Baker Mayfield primetime game that nobody saw coming (especially the Raiders)!

That happened on December 8th. Best 50th birthday present I can remember! That was epic.

That game is the epitome of why I love sports. Never know when something awesome is going to happen.

 

[gogoat1]

As much as I get mad at McVay for running out of the shotgun on a important 3rd and short, we are blessed.
No other coach I would rather have.
Running out of the gun is collage BS offense that made its way into the NFL. McVay sort of grew up with it.
While you are at it coach. Get rid of coming out in the gun on short yardage entirely.

 

[Memento]

No. Pead and Quick were Fisher-Snead guys if what we were told was true (it's a collective effort). My guess is Fisher had the final word. We're told the current system is a collaborative effort. And we see videos of the draft room where it appears that way. So Atwell, Akers, Jefferson, etc were Snead-McVay guys. But we have to wonder where all of Snead's lower round gems were when Fisher was here. Don't we?

To be fair to Fisher, he was solid with defensive style picks. AD, Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Trumaine Johnson, Alec Ogletree, Lamarcus Joyner, even undrafted free agents like Rodney McLeod and Johnny Hekker.

I don't hold nearly as much contempt towards Fisher than I do towards truly incompetent head coaches and equally incompetent general managers we've had.

Thank holy fate for McVay, though. He kept Snead on, realized his worth, and it's led us to all-star worthy draft picks, gave us fucking hope.

 

[JonRam99]

When JohnRam99 says The Rams are bottom half franchise is CRAP !! Obviously he IMO with his handle he is a Fair weather winner type fan who joined Greatest Show on Turf 1999 ?

Ahhh, I think I see what you were replying to -- I've got a poorly-worded sentence in my post, "Snead of course deserves some credit, but without a sea-change in the team culture, this team is would still be a basement dweller -- Snead has been our GM for a long time, and under Fisher, still couldn't make a real difference until McVay arrived." So no, I wasn't trying to say they are basement dwellers, but would still be so if not for McVay. I hope that helps?

And, uhhhh, "Fair weather winner type fan"??? I assume you're joking?? Did you not read my comments to PaRam? I don't remember ever seeing you on realramsfans.com, maybe you're a turfshowtimes.com kinda guy? I woulda remembered you for sure. I'm known around here, you're kind of a late-comer, at least to ROD.

Yes I started in 1999, when I was just a casual football fan & lived in the Loo for all of about 2 years, right after I married my big-city girlfriend. We then moved to SW MO, but I still followed mainly St. Louis Blues & Cards because the Rams were trash, until that magical 1999 season. I was filled with pride for my former-home-town team as KW hoisted that Lombardi, so yes that's when my Ram fandom really started. If I really was a "fair weather fan" I woulda never known about Scotty's infamous punt catching drill at the end of his camp -- or were you even aware of this "fun" event?

I watched the slow decline of the GSOT, the end of the Martz era, the Linehan era, the Spags era & the Fisher era -- even the Haslett era for cryin' out loud. I screamed with S-Jax when he put the whole team on his back & got us the only win that season against Asshole Face. I scoured the 'net for any glimmers of hope, drank years & years worth of koolaid, read every one of the Rev's camp reports, MFranke's excellent game reports, drooled over @Dagonet 's game time menus & @jrry32 's mocks, and even stuck around when many left after Stan stabbed my former-home-town right in the face.

I was kinda "meh" when they seemed to reach & get a very young McVay, but watched in amazement when he single handedly changed this team's culture. So I know what I'm talking about with these here Rams, just sometimes I write a sentence or two that doesn't make sense -- unlike someone else I know.

I know you've probably got a very long history with the Rams, maybe even with Gabriel IIRC? & I know many fans on here have much longer stories about this team than I do, but I will NOT be called a "fair weather fan". Not after all I've been through following this crazy team.

/rant

 

[tempests]

Outside of Greg Z and Hekker, who?

Remember Rodney McLeod, Benny Cunningham, Malcolm Brown, Ethan Westbrooks, Morgan Fox? Some of our special teamers like Bryce Hager, Cory Harkey, Michael Thomas? Signing and developing UDFAs was a strength of Fisher's regime.

Stockpiling talent that gave McVay right place, right time?

That 2017 team was almost all home grown talent. They had seven players on the AP All Pro teams and Whitworth was the only one of them who wasn't a Fisher era player.

They added key players that they needed at critical positions like Whitworth, Kupp and Woods. That got them over the 7-9 block.

But this was not the same thing as when Fisher or Spagnuolo came to the Rams. Those two actually inherited rosters barren of talent.

 

[PARAM]

Ahhh, I think I see what you were replying to -- I've got a poorly-worded sentence in my post, "Snead of course deserves some credit, but without a sea-change in the team culture, this team is would still be a basement dweller -- Snead has been our GM for a long time, and under Fisher, still couldn't make a real difference until McVay arrived." So no, I wasn't trying to say they are basement dwellers, but would still be so if not for McVay. I hope that helps?

And, uhhhh, "Fair weather winner type fan"??? I assume you're joking?? Did you not read my comments to PaRam? I don't remember ever seeing you on realramsfans.com, maybe you're a turfshowtimes.com kinda guy? I woulda remembered you for sure. I'm known around here, you're kind of a late-comer, at least to ROD.

Yes I started in 1999, when I was just a casual football fan & lived in the Loo for all of about 2 years, right after I married my big-city girlfriend. We then moved to SW MO, but I still followed mainly St. Louis Blues & Cards because the Rams were trash, until that magical 1999 season. I was filled with pride for my former-home-town team as KW hoisted that Lombardi, so yes that's when my Ram fandom really started. If I really was a "fair weather fan" I woulda never known about Scotty's infamous punt catching drill at the end of his camp -- or were you even aware of this "fun" event?

I watched the slow decline of the GSOT, the end of the Martz era, the Linehan era, the Spags era & the Fisher era -- even the Haslett era for cryin' out loud. I screamed with S-Jax when he put the whole team on his back & got us the only win that season against Asshole Face. I scoured the 'net for any glimmers of hope, drank years & years worth of koolaid, read every one of the Rev's camp reports, MFranke's excellent game reports, drooled over @Dagonet 's game time menus & @jrry32 's mocks, and even stuck around when many left after Stan stabbed my former-home-town right in the face.

I was kinda "meh" when they seemed to reach & get a very young McVay, but watched in amazement when he single handedly changed this team's culture. So I know what I'm talking about with these here Rams, just sometimes I write a sentence or two that doesn't make sense -- unlike someone else I know.

I know you've probably got a very long history with the Rams, maybe even with Gabriel IIRC? & I know many fans on here have much longer stories about this team than I do, but I will NOT be called a "fair weather fan". Not after all I've been through following this crazy team.

/rant

They were cellar dwellers and that's why I described it as being in the gutter of the NFC West. Becoming a fan in 99 isn't fair weather. That was fine weather!!! I don't know how old you are but I'd bet a lot younger than I. So climbing aboard the Rams train in 99 as a young man/football fan is nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, it's to be lauded as sound judgement, particularly considering the fact you're still here after that 12 year trek through the sewer system. It's a testament to your loyalty.

It IS McVay. Not bad luck by Fisher. Not the move from St. Louis to L.A. . Not great drafting by Snead (though it has been great lately). Could be the type of players he's drafted under McVay is different than under Fisher. And as someone else said, the developing by McVay & Co. Nor was it McVay falling into a perfect situation. The proof is in the results. After 5 years with Fisher at the helm, the best we could do....at his very best.....was 7-9. McVay turns that around immediately and builds upon it.

This team has already surpassed TGSOT and that's saying something. TGSOT had an awesome first year, where guys "fell into a perfect situation" and went downhill from there. This team was built up, renovated and it's now poised to vie for the Lombardi again. Magic disguised as hard work.

 

[PARAM]

Remember Rodney McLeod, Benny Cunningham, Malcolm Brown, Ethan Westbrooks, Morgan Fox? Some of our special teamers like Bryce Hager, Cory Harkey, Michael Thomas? Drafting and developing UDFAs was a strength of Fisher's regime.

That 2017 team was almost all home grown talent. They had seven players on the AP All Pro teams and Whitworth was the only one of them who wasn't a Fisher era player.

They added key players that they needed at critical positions like Whitworth, Kupp and Woods. That got them over the 7-9 block.

But this was not the same thing as when Fisher or Spagnuolo came to the Rams. Those two actually inherited rosters barren of talent.

Sure I remember Rodney and the rest. Was Malcolm, Westbrooks, Fox any more than jags? Hell, previous to Fisher one UDFA was Danny Amendola. You remember him right? He went on to have a pretty good career. I'd venture to say better than any of those guys you listed. Darian Steward? He had a 10 year NFL career. Donario Alexander was a fan favorite and if not for his glass knees, he might have been a real find. Let's be honest. It's not like Fisher found any diamonds in the rough like Alaric. And Snead/McVay have found a number of good UDFAs. Some jags like Brown, Westbrooks, etc including Mundt, Reeder, Hoecht, Rivers and Jonah Williams to name a few.

You also said, day three picks improved under Fisher. I've looked back and couldn't find any difference makers. While under McVay there's a ton of them.

As far as the 2017 All Pro Team (both AP and PFWA), they had 6, not 7. Gurley, Whitworth, Donald, Zuerlein, Hekker and Pharoh Cooper. McVay made Gurley an AllPro. 1991 yards (3.9), 16 TD and 64 rec (8.0) 0 TDs under Fisher. 2556 (4.8) 30 TDs and 123 rec (11.1) 10 TDs under McVay. Let's not give Fisher more credit than drafting a stud RB at #10 and abusing him behind a shitty line in a bad offense. Whitworth and Donald were already All Pros. The other 3 were special team guys. Not impressed with Fisher.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

Snead also drafted Donald and Gurley and traded up for Goff before McVay got here. He had lots of pieces in place. And yes, I know McVay turned Goff into a good QB, but you don't go #1 overall without being talented.
12 teams passed on Donald because he was "too small" to play DT. How did that work out for those teams?

 

[tempests]

Sure I remember Rodney and the rest. Was Malcolm, Westbrooks, Fox any more than jags? Hell, previous to Fisher one UDFA was Danny Amendola. You remember him right? He went on to have a pretty good career. I'd venture to say better than any of those guys you listed. Darian Steward? He had a 10 year NFL career. Donario Alexander was a fan favorite and if not for his glass knees, he might have been a real find. Let's be honest. It's not like Fisher found any diamonds in the rough like Alaric. And Snead/McVay have found a number of good UDFAs. Some jags like Brown, Westbrooks, etc including Mundt, Reeder, Hoecht, Rivers and Jonah Williams to name a few.

You also said, day three picks improved under Fisher. I've looked back and couldn't find any difference makers. While under McVay there's a ton of them.

We needed to build up our roster, especially the bottom third, and that's what they did. It's not like it was in the Billy Devaney era, where none of us had ever heard of the sorry fkers they were drafting. Or Zygmunt/Linehan, where all they were doing was picking names out of a hat.

The Rams scouting process became much more refined and conventional. Under Kroenke/Demoff, they had considerably more resources too.

As far as the 2017 All Pro Team (both AP and PFWA), they had 6, not 7. Gurley, Whitworth, Donald, Zuerlein, Hekker and Pharoh Cooper.

And Saffold as a second teamer.

McVay made Gurley an AllPro. 1991 yards (3.9), 16 TD and 64 rec (8.0) 0 TDs under Fisher. 2556 (4.8) 30 TDs and 123 rec (11.1) 10 TDs under McVay. Let's not give Fisher more credit than drafting a stud RB at #10 and abusing him behind a shitty line in a bad offense. Whitworth and Donald were already All Pros. The other 3 were special team guys. Not impressed with Fisher.

The Rams defense and special teams were abysmal for many years, starting under Mike Martz. I don't know why you're refusing to recognize those units actually improved under Fisher, and our talent evaluation and acquisition too. It was the offense he couldn't get going, and it was McVay that turned that around.

 

[muggmeister]

Ahhh, I think I see what you were replying to -- I've got a poorly-worded sentence in my post, "Snead of course deserves some credit, but without a sea-change in the team culture, this team is would still be a basement dweller -- Snead has been our GM for a long time, and under Fisher, still couldn't make a real difference until McVay arrived." So no, I wasn't trying to say they are basement dwellers, but would still be so if not for McVay. I hope that helps?

And, uhhhh, "Fair weather winner type fan"??? I assume you're joking?? Did you not read my comments to PaRam? I don't remember ever seeing you on realramsfans.com, maybe you're a turfshowtimes.com kinda guy? I woulda remembered you for sure. I'm known around here, you're kind of a late-comer, at least to ROD.

Yes I started in 1999, when I was just a casual football fan & lived in the Loo for all of about 2 years, right after I married my big-city girlfriend. We then moved to SW MO, but I still followed mainly St. Louis Blues & Cards because the Rams were trash, until that magical 1999 season. I was filled with pride for my former-home-town team as KW hoisted that Lombardi, so yes that's when my Ram fandom really started. If I really was a "fair weather fan" I woulda never known about Scotty's infamous punt catching drill at the end of his camp -- or were you even aware of this "fun" event?

I watched the slow decline of the GSOT, the end of the Martz era, the Linehan era, the Spags era & the Fisher era -- even the Haslett era for cryin' out loud. I screamed with S-Jax when he put the whole team on his back & got us the only win that season against Asshole Face. I scoured the 'net for any glimmers of hope, drank years & years worth of koolaid, read every one of the Rev's camp reports, MFranke's excellent game reports, drooled over @Dagonet 's game time menus & @jrry32 's mocks, and even stuck around when many left after Stan stabbed my former-home-town right in the face.

I was kinda "meh" when they seemed to reach & get a very young McVay, but watched in amazement when he single handedly changed this team's culture. So I know what I'm talking about with these here Rams, just sometimes I write a sentence or two that doesn't make sense -- unlike someone else I know.

I know you've probably got a very long history with the Rams, maybe even with Gabriel IIRC? & I know many fans on here have much longer stories about this team than I do, but I will NOT be called a "fair weather fan". Not after all I've been through following this crazy team.

/rant

Just wow, I know I'm a newbie on this board and don't really give a fuck or have anything to do with social media. Hell, I don't have a Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or any other account but I'm 61 years old and have been a Rams since I was 10. I think you could really use a Valium right now or at least a 6 pack of Southern Prohibition Light (my newest favorite beer) and just try to chill a bit. Go Rams and have a blessed day.

 

[Memento]

Just wow, I know I'm a newbie on this board and don't really give a fuck or have anything to do with social media. Hell, I don't have a Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or any other account but I'm 61 years old and have been a Rams since I was 10. I think you could really use a Valium right now or at least a 6 pack of Southern Prohibition Light (my newest favorite beer) and just try to chill a bit. Go Rams and have a blessed day.

Mugg, to be fair, I hope this is a misunderstanding. Jon felt like he had his fandom called out, and none of us Rams fans like that. We struggled a lot as a fanbase, and I don't consider any of you to be fair-weather fans at all (I was born in 1991, for clarification, and started following football in 1999.), but I stuck it out through Martz, through Linehan and Zygcuunt, through Spags and Devaney, watching players like Fahkir Brown, Justin King, and Josh Gordy at cornerback, through the embarrassment of the Claudes (Wroten and Terrell) and Incognito, through tackle busts like Alex Barron, Jason Smith, and Greg Robinson, through Adam Carriker - another bust, fuck him - calling us a "loser franchise", through watching Steven Jackson try his damndest to carry this team on his back for eight seasons, through all that.

None of us are fair weather fans, @So Ram . We may have our differing opinions, but we all gather here to support this team through thick and thin.

 

[PARAM]

The Rams defense and special teams were abysmal for many years, starting under Mike Martz. I don't know why you're refusing to recognize those units actually improved under Fisher, and our talent evaluation and acquisition too. It was the offense he couldn't get going, and it was McVay that turned that around.

I never said "those units didn't improve". In fact, I'll go one further. Fisher's defense made the Rams watchable. His offense made it hopeless. I'll give Fisher credit for improving the defense and special teams. But isn't defense his forte?

They weren't dominant. They weren't great. We finished 9th in yards in 2016. The previous 4 years moving backwards....23rd, 17, 15, 14. And that #9 ranking came with a #23 ranking in points allowed. The other 4 years 13th, 16, 13, 14. So he gets all the credit for making the Rams mediocre. I won't give him more than an ounce of credit for what the Rams became under McVay.

I think some fans forget how bad the Rams were under Fisher because they were so abysmal the 7 years before he arrived. We were actually happy because they were watchable (on defense). What a low bar. I've heard the comment, "he had the team ready for the divison games", when in fact, the Rams had the same win pct. in or out of the division. .450.

Misperceptions. Just like they drafted well in the later rounds (they didn't) or they found so many more UDFAs than the previous regimes (they didn't). McVay didn't 'fall into a right place/right time'. He took a crappy team (if you factor in both offense and defense) and made them winners.

But if you want to credit Fisher for what we have now, that's your prerogative. You miss that 7-9 bullshit? I don't.

 

[So Ram]

Mugg, to be fair,

Ahhh, I think I see what you were replying to -- I've got a poorly-worded sentence in my post, "Snead of course deserves some credit, but without a sea-change in the team culture, this team is would still be a basement dweller -- Snead has been our GM for a long time, and under Fisher, still couldn't make a real difference until McVay arrived." So no, I wasn't trying to say they are basement dwellers, but would still be so if not for McVay. I hope that helps?

And, uhhhh, "Fair weather winner type fan"??? I assume you're joking?? Did you not read my comments to PaRam? I don't remember ever seeing you on realramsfans.com, maybe you're a turfshowtimes.com kinda guy? I woulda remembered you for sure. I'm known around here, you're kind of a late-comer, at least to ROD.

Yes I started in 1999, when I was just a casual football fan & lived in the Loo for all of about 2 years, right after I married my big-city girlfriend. We then moved to SW MO, but I still followed mainly St. Louis Blues & Cards because the Rams were trash, until that magical 1999 season. I was filled with pride for my former-home-town team as KW hoisted that Lombardi, so yes that's when my Ram fandom really started. If I really was a "fair weather fan" I woulda never known about Scotty's infamous punt catching drill at the end of his camp --

Much appreciated post - my bad.

You’ve been around Rod longer than myself.I was a NFL.net Rams poster until there board was let go. Then a Stltoday guy with JT & Bernie.

That Nick Wagoner guy whose with the 8ers now was a joke.He use to reply & thought he knew it all.Those guys were jokes,but then again I’ve drank the kool-aide for years.That guy never really knew the rivalry of the only true(2) teams from The NFC WEST !!
I just got a little upset in not thinking after this Superbowl & Playoffs that The Rams are a lower level team. Miss print or not,that’s the way I read it.
—It’s like all The Kurt Warner Fans & not knowing how good The Rams Franchise was in 1999 !! It wasn’t EVER about Kurt Warner.
—Look back at KC’s offense with Trent Green & Dick vermeil.I got a futures bet down 150-1. When he went down it went to 300-1.It was an amazing season,but Sean Mcvay says it Best.


The NFL is The Greatest Team Sport. He is an AWESOME coach.
I apologize if I offended you.Like the way you showed your
RAMHOOD !!

 

[Merlin]

Snead also drafted Donald and Gurley and traded up for Goff before McVay got here. He had lots of pieces in place. And yes, I know McVay turned Goff into a good QB, but you don't go #1 overall without being talented.
12 teams passed on Donald because he was "too small" to play DT. How did that work out for those teams?

Yeah man. Among AD's accomplishments he will go down as perhaps the greatest example that size isn't everything as a lineman. People can say what they will about Fish or Snead in that era but they drafted a generational player when 12 other front offices didn't see it.

What a pick that was boy.

 

[PARAM]

They hit on their first round picks with the exception of GRob and Tavon. But they had 2 each of those two years. They were also picking in the upper half of the round every year.

As far as "having a lot" of pieces in place for McVay, sure, if you can call 2 a lot. Donald and Gurley. Thankfully they didn't start Goff from the jump or he might have been beyond repair. Also Brockers was solid and Higbee was green. Beyond that Fisher didn't do much to set the Rams up for future success.

 

[JonRam99]

Much appreciated post - my bad.

You’ve been around Rod longer than myself. I was a NFL.net Rams poster until there board was let go. Then a Stltoday guy with JT & Bernie.

No worries, @So Ram !! In proving my fandom, I got kinda carried away at throwing some shade, to a guy I knew was a longtime fan, sorry about that.

That Nick Wagoner guy whose with the 8ers now was a joke. He use to reply & thought he knew it all. Those guys were jokes, but then again I’ve drank the kool-aide for years. That guy never really knew the rivalry of the only true(2) teams from The NFC WEST !!
I just got a little upset in not thinking after this Superbowl & Playoffs that The Rams are a lower level team. Miss print or not, that’s the way I read it.
—It’s like all The Kurt Warner Fans & not knowing how good The Rams Franchise was in 1999 !! It wasn’t EVER about Kurt Warner.
—Look back at KC’s offense with Trent Green & Dick vermeil. I got a futures bet down 150-1. When he went down it went to 300-1. It was an amazing season, but Sean Mcvay says it Best.

WOW -- 300-1 -- I don't gamble but what a nice reward for your faith in the team! ....Wagoner went to the 8ers?? lol, smh. Ya in 1999, I knew the Rams were a great team in the past, and had heard of Dickerson, Everett, the Fearsome Foursome, etc., but not much more, so I love when the "old timers" post their fan stories on here like you do sometimes.

The NFL is The Greatest Team Sport. He is an AWESOME coach.
I apologize if I offended you. Like the way you showed your
RAMHOOD !!

(((( @So Ram )))))) ya I was kinda flexing a bit for the young pups on here

Back to the OP, since I only really started paying attention in 1999, I had no idea how a football franchise worked, so as the GSOT slowly fell apart, I was dismayed -- for instance, why was OP (Orlando Pace) hurt so much? where did Faulk go? what was the deal w/ KW, why didn't the coaching staff just give him some time for his thumb to heal, why was Martz so good at O but so bad at drafting (Trung C. lol), etc. With so many questions, I eventually found realramsfans.com, and drilled down into the team -- glad I did. Learned a lot about football, and the Rams, and came to know a lot of great posters.
So, when McVay came around, I wasn't impressed at first but after hearing a few pressers, watching some camp, and his first game vs. the Colts was very exciting, I don't think they knew what hit them. I'm also incredulous that already, some of his coordinators are now HC's. (Including Wade in the UFL lol) So I'm with PaRam, we can definitely give some shout outs to the supporting cast (Demoff, Stan :\, Snead etc.), but McVay single handedly changed the culture here, no doubt about it.

 

[AvengerRam]

Fun fact:

Average position of Rams’ first draft selection:

Jeff Fisher (2012-2016): No. 7
Sean McVay (2017-2023): No. 63