LB eval...tell me what your thoughts are?

[LACHAMP46]

Ray-Ray is a walking penalty machine IMO. More importantly, like the bleacher report that LACHAMP posted is saying, It's not an impressive group no matter who wins the starting job. JL is adequate and Ogletree has shown flashes of something really good but as a group, they're not very impressive and I don't think they will be able to take full advantage of our awesome D-line. I seem to be repeating all the points that the Bleacher Report talks about and I'm not a big fan of their stuff but I can't help feeling they've nailed it this time.

As of now, pending developments on the field this year, one of our two main priorities in the draft next year on defense will be OLB and S.

Depth at LB and S is pathetic unless a couple of our UDFAs step up and what are the chances of that?

We really need to get lucky on the injury front this year.

every now and then a squirrel finds a nut... naw, they have good writers, guys that have played the game at a high level and can express themselves, and they have hacks that write for impact and know little about the game & the players that play. And they have something in between. Information is like that, you'll find some good stuff were you least expect it.

Because a former safety catches a few ST penalties (blocking mostly) penalties, I see little reason to believe he'd do this constantly on LOS snaps. The guy has talent. The best way to utilize GW's talent as a coordinator is to place at his disposal our most athletic 11 on defense.

 

[CoachO]

Dunbar has been okay, but can and will be upgraded in the near future. Maybe this year, maybe next year, but it will inevitably happen. We can all at least agree that he's our weakest link among the starting LB's, can't we?

I have never once said I thought Dunbar would be here beyond this year. With that being said, for THIS SEASON, all this talk of him being forced out is over the top for me.

I get potential, and I certainly don't have a problem with it. But I also like to look at the PRESENT situation, and what's the best thing in the here and now. Dunbar is certainly not the bum that many seem to think he is, and for those who are beating down the door to anoint Armstrong the next up and coming superstar based off of Special Team "success" are missing the point.

I have never been one to worry about next year, when they haven't even made it training camp THIS YEAR. So all that potential doesn't mean squat to me, if it doesn't translate on the field in 2014.

 

[BD-TomCat]

Really dont understand the hate people have for Armstrong. The reason why i'm excited about the kid is because he has the athletic ability to be a good playmaker. One thing that I've noticed about football players is that you really cant teach Aggressiveness you either have it or you dont. It's a lot easier to teach someone to tone it down then it is to Ramp it up. Did Armstrong start the year off making dumb penalties? Yes!!!! but as the year wore on his penalties started declining but his play didnt.

The main reason why I think people want Dunbar replaced is because he is 30 and not an ascending player. The core of our team is Very Young and guys are looking towards the future. It was very obvious that Dunbar lost a step. While he was good in Run stopping he was also a big big liability in pass coverage. He is not suddenly going to get better at that aspect of his game. Then on the other hand you have a RAW young player that still has his best days ahead of him. A lot of us would like to see him take his lumps early so that he will be ready when the rest of the team is ready.

 

[blue4]

Really dont understand the hate people have for Armstrong. The reason why i'm excited about the kid is because he has the athletic ability to be a good playmaker. One thing that I've noticed about football players is that you really cant teach Aggressiveness you either have it or you dont. It's a lot easier to teach someone to tone it down then it is to Ramp it up. Did Armstrong start the year off making dumb penalties? Yes!!!! but as the year wore on his penalties started declining but his play didnt.

The main reason why I think people want Dunbar replaced is because he is 30 and not an ascending player. The core of our team is Very Young and guys are looking towards the future. It was very obvious that Dunbar lost a step. While he was good in Run stopping he was also a big big liability in pass coverage. He is not suddenly going to get better at that aspect of his game. Then on the other hand you have a RAW young player that still has his best days ahead of him. A lot of us would like to see him take his lumps early so that he will be ready when the rest of the team is ready.

Some of us feel the team is ready now. That's the whole point. There's no hate for Ray Ray, just bafflement as to why we keep talking about replacing a guy this year for someone to take his lumps. I don't want to take anymore lumps, I think they can win now. We can care about Dunbar's and Ray Ray's future days after the season. I very much doubt the players feel differently than that. He'll have to be great in preseason to warrent playing time.

 

[BD-TomCat]

Some of us feel the team is ready now. That's the whole point. There's no hate for Ray Ray, just bafflement as to why we keep talking about replacing a guy this year for someone to take his lumps. I don't want to take anymore lumps, I think they can win now. We can care about Dunbar's and Ray Ray's future days after the season. I very much doubt the players feel differently than that. He'll have to be great in preseason to warrent playing time.

I'm of the belief that he will be less of a liability then Dunbar because his skillset is better then Dunbar. Only thing I think Dunbar brings to this team is an attitude and a mean streak. He is servicable against the Run and Weak against the pass. Armstrong provides that same attitude and is faster and more athletic. Taking your lumps with Armstrong doesnt mean the defense will be weaker. I understand that people think this team is ready to make a run this year. Playing Armstrong will not hinder that. Now if he was playing Middle and making all the defensive calls then Yes I would agree but he's not.

 

[CoachO]

I'm of the belief that he will be less of a liability then Dunbar because his skillset is better then Dunbar. Only thing I think Dunbar brings to this team is an attitude and a mean streak. He is servicable against the Run and Weak against the pass. Armstrong provides that same attitude and is faster and more athletic. Taking your lumps with Armstrong doesnt mean the defense will be weaker. I understand that people think this team is ready to make a run this year. Playing Armstrong will not hinder that. Now if he was playing Middle and making all the defensive calls then Yes I would agree but he's not.

While saying all of this, you seem to be making light of what Dunbar brings to the table in being an effective piece in the run defense. It's no coincidence in my mind, that when he came back from his suspension, the overall performance in stopping the run, improved significantly. You can say all you want that Armstrong is faster and more athletic, but he will NOT play as fast given his inexperience at the position.

And to be consumed with Armstrong's better coverage skills over Dunbar, won't make a bit of difference if they can't stop the run first. We are talking primarily a 2-down position now, and that position isn't going to be counted on coverage skills nearly as much as it will be to be stout vs. the running game. Hence, Dunbar STILL has the edge there. To argue otherwise, just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Alan]

LACHAMP46 defending the squirrels:
every now and then a squirrel finds a nut... naw, they have good writers, guys that have played the game at a high level and can express themselves, and they have hacks that write for impact and know little about the game & the players that play. And they have something in between. Information is like that, you'll find some good stuff were you least expect it.

Because a former safety catches a few ST penalties (blocking mostly) penalties, I see little reason to believe he'd do this constantly on LOS snaps. The guy has talent. The best way to utilize GW's talent as a coordinator is to place at his disposal our most athletic 11 on defense.

They do a damn good job hiding the good ones. It's their format that I really find objectionable. I like to find good writers that I can rely on. The Bleacher Report has way too many and most of them suck. But you're right about occasionally finding a nut. Whether it's finding a good writer occasionally or just getting lucky, it keeps me coming back to them for the occasional nugget.

I disagree with you about the level of Ray-Ray's knuckleheadedness (I just made up that word ). Like CoachO stated, it's his attitude that I find troublesome. But then again, many of us grow up eventually and let's hope he's seen the light and become a team player.

BTW, if you look at that supposedly great tackle Ray-Ray made in the video, you'll see the he didn't wrap up and merely lowered his shoulder for greater impact. On another day, that could easily have been a missed tackle.

Needless to say, as far as I'm concerned he has a lot to prove if he's going to play anything other than STs.

 

[SaneRamsFan]

I don't have any special love for Armstrong just the opposite I'm old school and he acts like a knucklehead at times but so did I when I was his age so hopefully he grows up. My problem is Dunbars ZERO passes defended in 2013. That's not all on the coordinator. Has to be fixed somehow with either scheme or somebody else stepping in on pass situations.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Always like Lauriniatis... not spectactular, but very steady and durable. Yes, he has limitations and that position could be upgraded at some point in the future, but the roster has penty more spots to worry about right now than MLB.

Really like Ogletree. I liked that he got progressively better as the year went along. And he has all the physical skills you'd want.

Then there's the other LB position.

Dunbar had a pretty bad 2013. Started off badly with the suspension and he never really showed signs of what we saw the previous year. Was it the juice? He'lll start this year under Williams so we'll know soon.

Armstrong? Just haven't seen enough of him to say anything definitive. But those penalties really irked me.

I'm sure it's Dunbar's job... Armstrong will get in there in situations and - if he can produce - maybe he becomes the starter next year or later (Dunbar is getting up there a tad).

 

[jjab360]

I don't have any special love for Armstrong just the opposite I'm old school and he acts like a knucklehead at times but so did I when I was his age so hopefully he grows up. My problem is Dunbars ZERO passes defended in 2013. That's not all on the coordinator. Has to be fixed somehow with either scheme or somebody else stepping in on pass situations.

Dunbar was targeted 18 times last year and allowed 18 receptions. Food for thought.

 

[RamsAndEwe]

Midway through Nov. 2013 the Rams linebackers were on pace to set a record for abhorrent pass coverage. Olgetree came on strong to save the Rams Linebackers from that dubious record.

I'm sure Tim Walton's receiver sieve defense had something to the Linebacker's abysmal pass coverage.
I expect Alec Olgetree to mature and refine his pass defense.

James Laurinaitis? It would seem the critics are divided. I hear JL is superior in pass coverage. Yet, how could the Rams Linebackers have been so loathsome in coverage, if James Laurinaitis is a solid pass defender? If anybody has a...Please untie this Gordon Knot conundrum ensconced inside our linebacker enigma.

Perhaps many of you remember Ray Ray Armstrong's off-season intagram photos showcasing Ray Ray's defensive back drill? This would suggest that Fisher encouraged Ray Ray to improve his pass coverage skills if he wishes to see the field more in 2014. If so, that leads us to the question- Which linebacker would Ray Ray replace in pass coverage? I suggest Ray Ray would replace Dunbar on 2nd and longs, or anytime the Rams want better linebacker pass coverage without sacrificing run support.

Dunbar?- I see Dunbar playing mainly in run support and on special Gregg Williams blitzes.

Short Story- Dunbar, Ray Ray, and a defensive back split time at the strong linebacker/ nickel back position. Olgetree and Laurinatis on the field almost entire game.

Ideally The Rams lower the defensive 2013 defensive snap number of 1066 to below 1000 in 2014. Ideally the Rams go injury free. So out of a 1000 defensive snaps I would think an ideal distribution would be...

James Laurinaitis 990/1000 snaps
Alec Ogletree 990/1000 snaps
Nickel backs play 555/1000 snaps because more often the not the Rams are in the lead, or have forced opposing offense into 3rd and longs.
Jo Lonn Dunbar - 325/1000 snaps
Ray Ray Armstrong 85/1000 snaps
Will Witherspoon 55/1000 snaps

If the Rams linebackers distribute their offensive snaps the way I outlined it, I believe the Rams will have a very good year and win between 9-12 games.

The Rams defense is notorious for keeping their two top linebackers and starting DE's on the field a higher percentage of snaps than most teams. I would prefer to lighten Laurinaitis's load. But I'm not the coach. I think J.L. missed one snap last year.

Our new and improved defensive line depth combined with few total defensive snaps in 2014 should lighten the load our starting front four.

One more thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Lamarcus Joyner plays free safety on 1st downs. I believe Gregg Williams will figure out how to keep Joyner on the field as often as possible.

 

[RamFan503]

Personally, I think the writer of this piece is way off on JL's pass defense. How many LBs were asked to drop back in coverage over 50% of their snaps? We have two very good LBs in Tree and JL. Dunbar is a good run defender but I think even at this point, Ray Ray is better in pass coverage. I realize Dunbar is shorter and therefore could have a better base, but f we start really playing well at stopping the run, teams will be passing on early downs. And I fear they will be picking on Dunbar and maybe our safety not named McDonald. Though Ray Ray is likely not up to speed just yet, I'd like to see how his game progresses. I don't agree that he is too small to play stout against the run. He does need to pick up a little weight but he seems to have the frame to do just that without losing speed. He will definitely need to grow up in order to be relied upon. But I wouldn't be surprised if by mid season, he is taking some of the early snaps away from Dunbar. Guess we'll see. Either way, I don't think Dunbar is a huge liability if we are not playing that stupid ass soft zone.

All in all I feel pretty good about our LB corp.

 

[blue4]

I'm of the belief that he will be less of a liability then Dunbar because his skillset is better then Dunbar. Only thing I think Dunbar brings to this team is an attitude and a mean streak. He is servicable against the Run and Weak against the pass. Armstrong provides that same attitude and is faster and more athletic. Taking your lumps with Armstrong doesnt mean the defense will be weaker. I understand that people think this team is ready to make a run this year. Playing Armstrong will not hinder that. Now if he was playing Middle and making all the defensive calls then Yes I would agree but he's not.

Only preseason will show if playing Ray Ray will hinder us. It's way to early to talk otherwise, IMO.