LB eval...tell me what your thoughts are?

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LACHAMP46

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Is there any chance Ray Ray doesn't replace Dunbar, or was last year just a blip, and he returns to 2012 form? I personally think the guy isn't the same without his super juice...I'm not mad at him, he was trying to get a contract.
http://archauthority.com/2014/07/14/rams-training-camp-countdown-evaluating-linebackers/?utm_source=FanSided Daily&utm_medium=email


St. Louis Sports Link Dump: July 14by Patrick Karraker

alec-ogletree-lance-kendricks-nfl-st.-louis-rams-minicamp-850x560.jpg

Jun 17, 2014; St. Louis, MO, USA; St. Louis Rams linebacker Alec Ogletree (52) intercepts a pass intended for St. Louis Rams tight end Lance Kendricks (88) during minicamp at Rams Park. Mandatory Credit: Jeff Curry-USA TODAY Sports

St. Louis Rams

Rams Training Camp Countdown: Evaluating the Linebackers
by Patrick Karraker 1d ago


Each weekday from now until Rams rookies report to training camp on July 21st, we’ll be profiling a Rams position group. Today we look at the linebackers.

The St. Louis Rams have two borderline Pro Bowl-caliber linebackers on their roster that will be cornerstones of their defense. Despite that, the position group is probably the most inexperienced on the roster going into training camp.

Despite the common classification of the Rams’ defense as a “4-3” alignment, it’s probably more accurate to classify it as a 4-2-5, since the Rams had a strong side linebacker on the field for only about 53 percent of their defensive snaps in 2013. Even when they did utilize a three-linebacker alignment, rookie weak side ‘backer Alec Ogletree was utilized many times like a big safety in coverage. With two former safeties being part of the linebacking corps in Ogletree and fellow second-year player Ray Ray Armstrong, it’s clear that the Rams really value quickness and athleticism in their linebackers.

Ogletree will look to take his game to the next level after having a very successful rookie season in 2013. With a team-leading 117 total tackles, he was the first player other than middle linebacker James Laurinaitis to lead the Rams in tackles since 2008. He also showed his playmaking ability, forcing six fumbles, knocking down 10 passes, and running back an interception for a 98-yard touchdown against the Houston Texans. He didn’t contribute a whole lot as a pass rusher, picking up only 1.5 sacks on the season, but he’ll certainly be focusing on improving that area of his game in his sophomore season.

Laurinaitis will continue in his role as the veteran leader of the Rams’ defense and should continue to be a major contributor despite the fact that Ogletree has taken a significant load off of Laurinaitis’s back since his arrival. The 27-year-old had 116 total tackles in 2013, the second-lowest total of his five-year career, but the presence of Ogletree freed up Laurinaitis to become more active as a pass rusher, and he took advantage, registering a career-high 3.5 sacks. He also defended a career-high nine passes. If Laurinaitis and Ogletree build on their 2013 production, the Rams can say that they have one of the best linebacker duos in the NFL.

When the Rams have a strong side linebacker on the field, six-year veteran Jo-Lonn Dunbar figures to fit into the role. There’s been a strong sentiment among fans recently that Armstrong should move ahead of Dunbar on the depth chart, but there hasn’t really been any indication from the Rams that there’s a possibility of that happening. Dunbar will look to have a bounce back season under Gregg Williams, his former defensive coordinator with the New Orleans Saints.

After having the best season of his career with the Rams in 2012, picking up 115 total tackles and notching 4.5 sacks while running back two interceptions for 63 yards, Dunbar had one of his worst in 2013. He was suspended four games for violating the NFL’s performance-enhancing policy and was released by the Rams at the beginning of the regular season, though he was subsequently re-signed once his suspension ended. He did not have much of an impact once he came back, however, participating on only 425 plays from scrimmage and picking up 39 total tackles with no sacks. He received a -8.4 rating from Pro Football Focus which ranked him as the seventh-worst 4-3 outside linebacker in the NFL.

Armstrong will be counted on to make further improvements and will likely serve as the primary backup to both Ogletree and Dunbar. The 6-foot-3, 234-pounder flashed impressive athleticism on special teams as a rookie, and he totaled 13 tackles on the year. However, he must be more disciplined, as he had several costly special teams penalties, particularly early in the season, that ended up hurting the Rams.

Daren Bates, a versatile 5-foot-11, 225-pounder who was a solid special teams contributor as a rookie in 2013, will return and provide depth at all the linebacker positions. Ogletree will probably fill Laurinaitis’s role should he get injured, but depth-chart wise Bates figures to be the second-string middle linebacker. It’s easy to envision a scenario where Armstrong and Bates could be the only two backup linebackers to dress on gamedays, much like they did in Weeks 2 through 4 last season.

The Rams will likely carry six linebackers on their 53-man roster, so barring further additions the sixth spot will be up for grabs among Aaron Hill, Caleb McSurdy, Johnny Millard, Etienne Sabino, Phillip Steward, and Tavarius Wilson. With the sixth linebacker facing very long odds to get playing time from scrimmage, special teams ability will likely play a huge role in the decison.

Steward, a 6-foot-1, 235-pounder from Houston, would be the logical favorite for the role, as he was a highly-regarded undrafted free agent last season and got a whole year to soak in the system after landing on injured reserve. He showed the ability in college to contribute as a tackler and playmaker, and he would seem like a good candidate to contribute on coverage units.

McSurdy, a 6-foot-1, 237-pounder out of Montana, also has an edge, as he spent the last month on the Rams’ practice squad last season. He has experience working as a 4-3 middle linebacker, so that may work to his advantage.

Sabino, a 6-foot-2, 247-pounder who formerly backed up Laurinaitis at Ohio State, might be a dark horse candidate to win a 53-man roster spot after signing with the Rams following the conclusion of the 2013 season. As an undrafted rookie, Sabino was said to have been impressive in training camp with the New York Giants last summer, but he ultimately was released at the end of training camp and didn’t catch on with a team for the rest of the year. His size and athleticism, as well as his experience playing both in the middle and on the strong side at OSU, may make him an intriguing possibility.

Hill, Millard, and Wilson will all attempt to assert themselves after arriving as undrafted rookies. Hill, a graduate of Lutheran High School in St. Louis, certainly would be the best story of the group, as was a walk-on at Minnesota, and didn’t really emerge as a starter until his redshirt junior season. He’s viewed as a solid special-teamer, though he’s not exceptionally athletic, so it will be interesting to see if that ability translates to the NFL.

Millard, a 6-foot-2, 232-pounder from Cal Poly who is the son of former NFL defensive tackle Keith Millard, probably sits near the bottom of the depth chart but has a chance to impress on special teams and obviously has an NFL pedigree. Wilson, meanwhile, will need to get up to NFL speed quickly after spending his college career at Division II North Alabama. He has a lot of similar qualities to Bates, as he’s 5-foot-11 and 239 pounds with above-average athleticism. He’ll have to have a real impressive camp to have a chance at cracking the 53-man roster, though.

It’s also worth noting that 33-year-old veteran Will Witherspoon has engaged in discussion with head coach Jeff Fisher about a possible return, though that doesn’t seem to be an exceptionally likely possibility unless the Rams are very dissatisfied with what they see from their young linebackers during training camp.

Tags: 2014 NFL Training Camp Alec Ogletree Featured James Laurinaitis Jo-Lonn Dunbar Popular St. Louis Rams

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PhxRam

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Sorry man I cant see Armstrong replacing Dunbar. Armstrong will really have to show me something on the field to suggest he should start ahead of Dunbar.
 

Boffo97

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Sorry man I cant see Armstrong replacing Dunbar. Armstrong will really have to show me something on the field to suggest he should start ahead of Dunbar.
Won't Dunbar's next suspension, if there is one, be a year long one? That risk could certainly tip some scales in Armstrong's favor.
 

CoachO

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I think Dunbar gets a bad rap from last year, personally. People who try to gauge his "performance" solely on his stats, compared to 2012, are missing the boat IMO.

His role was completely different once he came back from the suspension. In 2012, he was a 3 down LB, staying on the field in most sub packages. He was used mostly in the WLB spot, which is generally geared to guys being freed up to make plays.

Last year, with Ogletree being added to the mix, they were trying to simplify things to a point, and went away from the WLB/SLB concept, and left him on the right side. He replaced Dunbar in the sub packages, so naturally Dunbar's snap counts went way down. I think i saw they were somewhere around 425 for the season. That averages out to be just over 35 snaps per game for the 12 games he played.

He was also relegated to being on the left side in the base 4-3, which generally ends up being the strong side on most offenses. Thus, he would have SLB responsibilities more than he didn't. Not nearly as many play making opportunities when you have a TE lined up opposite you.

All that being said, the overall performance of the defense, especially stopping the run, improved dramatically when Dunbar came back. I, for one, don't think that was by coincidence. Now fast forward to 2014, with Greg Williams taking the reigns, with a history with Dunbar, why do people continue to think that he will be replaced?

AS far as Armstrong, I have stated my feelings about him more times than i care to repeat on this forum, and while he may be athletically capable of improving his standing in this defense, I just don't see the maturity being there to take over the starting job.
 

VegasRam

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...and I think Laurinaitus is the most underrated member of the Rams.
 

LACHAMP46

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
This was of interest, I know it's BR...But what is it they say about perception?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2128955-power-ranking-nfl-linebacker-depth-charts/page/16
Power Ranking NFL Linebacker Depth Charts
By Matt Miller
18. St. Louis Rams
hi-res-b0773c2a7289d8107dbea7db60e4b161_crop_north.jpg
Jeff Roberson/Associated Press
Starters: Alec Ogletree, James Laurinaitis, Jo-Lonn Dunbar

Key Contributors: Phillip Steward, Aaron Hill (rookie), Ray-Ray Armstrong

The St. Louis Rams have an intriguing group of linebackers on the front line, but when looking at the total talent of the entire position group, you start to become concerned.

James Laurinaitis is fine on first and second down, but offenses know they can pass on him, and they've started attacking him when he's on the field. Against the run he'll do work, but you don't want him lined up against a tight end or slot receiver. It's fair to say the former Ohio State star is a bit overrated at this point.

On the outside, you can love the potential of Alec Ogletree, but he was picked on in 2013 and needs to make a big move in year two. Oddly enough, Jo-Lonn Dunbar may be the most solid of the three starters, but none of them have been very successful in passing situations.

The depth doesn't offer much help, either. None of the three players listed here are ready to play more than spot duty, which is why a good front line leaves the Rams ranked at No. 18.
 

Alan

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Ray-Ray is a walking penalty machine IMO. More importantly, like the bleacher report that LACHAMP posted is saying, It's not an impressive group no matter who wins the starting job. JL is adequate and Ogletree has shown flashes of something really good but as a group, they're not very impressive and I don't think they will be able to take full advantage of our awesome D-line. I seem to be repeating all the points that the Bleacher Report talks about and I'm not a big fan of their stuff but I can't help feeling they've nailed it this time.

As of now, pending developments on the field this year, one of our two main priorities in the draft next year on defense will be OLB and S.

Depth at LB and S is pathetic unless a couple of our UDFAs step up and what are the chances of that?

We really need to get lucky on the injury front this year.
 

fearsomefour

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My thoughts are that Ray Ray will be on the field a lot, maybe not replace Dunbar but used in certain sets and I think Ogletree will contend for D player of the year this year or next.
 

blue4

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Our lbs worth fluctuates depending on which article you read. Ogletree made a move last year, they act like he sucks. Sportswriters have agendas like fans do.
 

brokeu91

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Why?

You don't think JL and Ogletree are both borderline pro-bowlers? JL always seems to be at the edge of being a pro-bowler and Ogletree very well might be one if he continues to progress.
 

PrometheusFaulk

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If Ogletree stays at home a bit more and continues to develop the explosive playmaking ability he demonstrated last season, no one is going to have any reason to complain about the Rams LBs. I believe the rotation at DT should make life pretty sweet for JL, and although I don't think he's likely to emerge as a playmaker at MLB, that's ok, he just needs to be reliable and maybe bring backs down a bit quicker, which should be helped by the attention Brockers, Langford, Donald and Carrington can draw. Dunbar did well in what was an ipso facto SAM position last year, and he can continue that.

But Ogletree's continued development is the key.
 

den-the-coach

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AS far as Armstrong, I have stated my feelings about him more times than i care to repeat on this forum, and while he may be athletically capable of improving his standing in this defense, I just don't see the maturity being there to take over the starting job.

Sir you amaze with your depth and the brilliance of your pen...I concur another year for Armstrong, however, he will make more plays on defense this year as I can see 2015 as the year he could be a starter. Dunbar will be much better under Gregg Williams and IMO the UDRFA to keep an eye on is Tavarius Wilson just have a feeling about him.
 

Alan

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Rams and Gators using skewed data:
I don't think you have the number 2 run D and give up 3.00 yards per attempt after the bye with a poor group.
How much of that ranking was due to the fact that our opponents knew that with the cushion or DBs were giving, a short pass was a better option than a running play? Even if that was a legitimate run defense ranking, just how important is that in a passing league if you suck at defending against the pass?
 
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How much of that ranking was due to the fact that our opponents knew that with the cushion or DBs were giving, a short pass was a better option than a running play? Even if that was a legitimate run defense ranking, just how important is that in a passing league if you suck at defending against the pass?

None

Very
 

Selassie I

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I consider Tree to be one of the most explosive players we have on defense. He's a game changer. Anyone dogging him based on his rookie season is viewing him with blinders on. I don't give a shit about Pro - Bowl votes,,, but Tree is a player who will see multiple trips to that game in the future if you're asking me.

JL is a dependable rock.

Dunbar brings a nasty edge to the defense that I fucking love. Keep him full of Red Bull and expect him to make a few punishing plays every game... The kind of plays that spark the entire D and stop scoring opportunities.

Ray Ray is gonna turn some haters into secret fans this year. Williams is going to use his talents as a weapon... a WMD. Wait and see.