Kroenke Messing with St Louis?

[AZRamsFan93]

Just keep supporting the Rams (or keep spending your money. However you want to look at it) and everything will be fine. I get that the silence and everything is a business decision. I realize it's a smart one. But I don't know. Call it the last gasp of idealism I have left after living in the world for 40 yrs, but something seems very wrong talking about giving a man worth 5.7 billion a ton of concessions. I know it's business, but look "the business" from the other side.

St Louis is still paying on the old house, and ol' Stan's product we'll be asked to buy has been crap for a long time. I know it's improving fast, but it's not public money improving fast. It's not filling the dome for next year fast. Hopefully that'll change this year.

There is zero support for public financing outside of the St. Louis metro area. It's lukewarm at best in St Louis. I'm no political science major, but it seems that this COULD have "it's a trap" written on it for wary politicians.

I have 3 friends that have let their season tickets go because they think the Rams are moving. 3 families, 13 seats between them, bought since the first season. Tempting to call them fairweather fans, but that's a lot of money. It's a better business decision to save the money and watch on TV until it's resolved, isn't it? What would Stan do? I bought a bike from Bicycle World in Belleville. Spent more than I wanted, but they have given me free minor repairs and yearly tune ups in the 5 years since I've bought it. Always unfailingly polite, no matter how jacked up my ride is. Point is, they ACT grateful I spent my money with them. My friends can't get an acknowledgement of that from Stan, just platitudes from flunkies who will be employed regardless of where the team is.

I know I sound bitter and fairweather. I'm not, otherwise I wouldn't be here posting and talking Rams in the summer. I'm always the one getting booed by people for stating support for Bulger, Bradford, etc. I love our team. I'm happy that there is finally some off-season hope.
I guess my point is that I'm not sure if Stan has the leverage he thinks he has over St. Louis. But then again, I'm a pessimist.

Blue, that is a well thought through and reasoned post. You may be right about Stan's leverage with the city.

If Stan is forced to build his own stadium with his own money (which I agree with BTW, aside from tax concessions the local government should consider), the question becomes where will he build it?

There is a pretty strong argument that the overall value of his investment (the team) will be much higher if he chooses to build it in SoCal.

That is the risk.

 

[candyman4881]

I think the flight path issue is a bit overblown. The newly refurbished LA Forum is right there. I'm sure if they were going to build a residential development there, a sports destination is not going to be MORE of a problem with the flight path. After all, we're talking about a flight path at 10,000 feet elevation. Noise from the planes would surely effect residences more than this kind of facility. And think of all the hotels that are right next to airports. If the worry is about terrorism, I'm sure there are a lot easier spots in any city to hit than trying to come down from 10,000 feet INSIDE a flight path to hit a stadium that likely won't be the tallest structure around.

Hollywood Park is pretty accessible as it has some pretty big streets and freeways near it. And that golf course is actually Inglewood Cemetery. Rodney Dangerfield would have a real problem with it.

I think the NFL views it as a prime location because there is a large tract of land and the area has traditionally been centered around sports. The streets have been built around large sudden influxes of traffic, trailers, and busses from back when Hollywood Park and the Forum were real attractions. It is also close to the airport and other hotels and infrastructure.

Thanks for the clarification on the area and also the cemetery....as you can see, I am not very versed in the area. Good information.

 

[CGI_Ram]

ESK is one of the top 10 land owners in the country...lets not lose sight of the fact that he is a business man also

I keep saying this over and over too.

The Rams are not Kroenke's ticket to wealth. A big difference from some owners (see Jerry Jones).

 

[So Ram]

You're saying it all so matter of fact...This would be huge dissention if the Rams move back....Dealt with it once, it's not fun.

Don't know if anyone has ever listened to me & believed what I've been saying for awhile now.
I brought facts to the table.
1.Why was Stan offering 2 billion to by the Dodgers ?
2.Why right before the mention of Stan's purchase of the property was The Rose Bowl being able to have a NFL team so important ?
3.Why didnStan's wife have that property ?
4.Is there a better location & more history than Hollywood Park & The Forum.110-405-105 plus 5minutes from LAX on a good day

 

[tonyl711]

Don't know if anyone has ever listened to me & believed what I've been saying for awhile now.
I brought facts to the table.
1.Why was Stan offering 2 billion to by the Dodgers ?
2.Why right before the mention of Stan's purchase of the property was The Rose Bowl being able to have a NFL team so important ?
3.Why didnStan's wife have that property ?
4.Is there a better location & more history than Hollywood Park & The Forum.110-405-105 plus 5minutes from LAX on a good day

1. because it was a good investment, the guy collects sports teams like some collect baseball cards. SK buying another sports team proves nothing, he has sports teams in a lot of different citys and even overseas so him bidding on the Dodgers says nothing about his intentions with the Rams.
2.important to who? you do realize that the feasibility of using the Rose bowl as a stop gap has been talked about for years and years right?
3.dont even have a clue where you are going with this so no comment.
4.yes, depending on where you live im sure most could come up with what they think are better alternatives.

 

[So Ram]

I'll add SF just built a new stadium quick.Super Bowls are going to be played in So.Cal for weather & fame.
--Stadiums issue has never had an hand in St. Louis.Tax payers are not going to pay .LA Rams will be worth far more than a St Louis Rams team ever will.
--Not about money .Ok that's fine.
Del Mar is going to have a fall meet.Santa Anita is a great track. There is a lot of land that was bought there in inglewood.The writing is on the wall.
-Stan was also part of the development for the NFL even as a part owner.
--St.Louis fans are great,but the reason why The Rams moved was because of money.La Ram fans aren't bad in there own right.Kids in the LA area have never been to a NFL game,or had there own team to cheer for.It is a huge market.

 

[RamFan503]

I just want to urge that everyone keep their cool on this subject. None of us know anything in reality and I totally feel for the fans in St Louis and the long time LA fans on this subject. It is a very touchy subject and it requires real self control on both sides of the discussion. Please remain respectful to each other as I can virtually guarantee this thread will be shut down and there will be a bad mood set if it turns ugly. We're all fans of the Rams - so respect that in each other.

 

[tonyl711]

I'll add SF just built a new stadium quick.Super Bowls are going to be played in So.Cal for weather & fame.
--Stadiums issue has never had an hand in St. Louis.Tax payers are not going to pay .LA Rams will be worth far more than a St Louis Rams team ever will.
--Not about money .Ok that's fine.
Del Mar is going to have a fall meet.Santa Anita is a great track. There is a lot of land that was bought there in inglewood.The writing is on the wall.
-Stan was also part of the development for the NFL even as a part owner.
--St.Louis fans are great,but the reason why The Rams moved was because of money.La Ram fans aren't bad in there own right.Kids in the LA area have never been to a NFL game,or had there own team to cheer for.It is a huge market.

if the city leaders want the team to stay here there will be taxes paid on it one way or another, and if LA is so great like you make it out to be, why aren't teams fighting to get there? golden goose might not be so golden after all?
stan also brought this team to St Louis so there goes that.
Stan bought into the team with the stipulation that they be moved to St Louis, I guess that LA wasn't so huge then?
the only writing on the wall says. "no one knows what I plan to do" but that don't fit your agenda so................

not saying that you are wrong or right, but to state as fact something theres no way you have knowledge of, will start an argument everytime.

 

[PhxRam]

I just want to urge that everyone keep their cool on this subject. None of us know anything in reality and I totally feel for the fans in St Louis and the long time LA fans on this subject. It is a very touchy subject and it requires real self control on both sides of the discussion. Please remain respectful to each other as I can virtually guarantee this thread will be shut down and there will be a bad mood set if it turns ugly. We're all fans of the Rams - so respect that in each other.

Listen to the man...

regardless. The dead period is almost over..

We will soon have some actual substance to discuss.

 

[So Ram]

1. because it was a good investment, the guy collects sports teams like some collect baseball cards. SK buying another sports team proves nothing, he has sports teams in a lot of different citys and even overseas so him bidding on the Dodgers says nothing about his intentions with the Rams.
2.important to who? you do realize that the feasibility of using the Rose bowl as a stop gap has been talked about for years and years right?
3.dont even have a clue where you are going with this so no comment.
4.yes, depending on where you live im sure most could come up with what they think are better alternatives.

if the city leaders want the team to stay here there will be taxes paid on it one way or another, and if LA is so great like you make it out to be, why aren't teams fighting to get there? golden goose might not be so golden after all?
stan also brought this team to St Louis so there goes that.
Stan bought into the team with the stipulation that they be moved to St Louis, I guess that LA wasn't so huge then?
the only writing on the wall says. "no one knows what I plan to do" but that don't fit your agenda so................

not saying that you are wrong or right, but to state as fact something theres no way you have knowledge of, will start an argument everytime.

---Times have changed,so has the economics.
--Raiders were the team because of being in LA,not The OC like .
--The 2 worst owners in The NFL,just look at what Al Davis did dith Marcus Allen & Steve Berlin.Ask ED29 about his thoughts of Georgia.Both HOF RB's both think there teams should be in LA.They know the history.
The NFL had a proposal ready(agreed)for Hollywood Park.He walked away from it.
I know field of Dreams.Stan builds it,the fan base will come.

Stan is no dummy.He knows what he is doing.St.louis fans are great.He & Georgia took advantage of them.The PSL has dried up.I would never pay for that seating.

 

[dhaab]

Nobody is being held hostage. He owns the team. It is currently based in St. Louis. The only NFL team that is owned by the city is Green Bay.

Businesses of many varieties extract concessions from local governments when deciding where to locate. It is not just sports franchises.

No one is ever forced to do anything. Two sides come to a reasonable accommodation through negotiation. Each side will use their leverage to try and achieve their primary care-abouts.

I can understand the St. Louis fans frustration, as it seems Stan has most (if not all) of the leverage in this situation. That is never a good place to be (if you are on the other side of the table).

Look, I don't need to be lectured about business and local governments here. I know full well that the fans aren't LITERALLY being held hostage. My point is I'm sick and tired of having to wonder whether a team I spend time and money to be a fan of has any desire to stay in my town. No fan base should have to go through something like this for years at a time. I think this kind of stuff happens in the NFL much more than any other major sport. Look how many teams are rumored to be moving over the past few seasons. The NFL is a private league and they can make rules or put pressure on owners to not treat their fans like this. Bottom line for me...it doesn't have to be like this.

 

[tonyl711]

---Times have changed,so has the economics.
--Raiders were the team because of being in LA,not The OC like .
--The 2 worst owners in The NFL,just look at what Al Davis did dith Marcus Allen & Steve Berlin.Ask ED29 about his thoughts of Georgia.Both HOF RB's both think there teams should be in LA.They know the history.
The NFL had a proposal ready(agreed)for Hollywood Park.He walked away from it.
I know field of Dreams.Stan builds it,the fan base will come.

Stan is no dummy.He knows what he is doing.St.louis fans are great.He & Georgia took advantage of them.The PSL has dried up.I would never pay for that seating.

the fans will come no matter where the new stadium is built, be it St Louis or LA, for 11 or 12 years there were nothing but sell outs in the dome, then came the worst 5 year stretch of any team in the NFL even with all that losing there has still only been about 10 (if that high) non sell outs in the teams 18 years here, a crap team and the unrest over the stadium issues yet they are hardly ever blacked out on TV shows the fans will be there.
they had a proposal for Hollywood park, that's nice, they also had proposals for about 5 or 6 other sites and not one of them has gotten anywhere, if LA is this golden goose you claim it to be (im not saying its not a desirable spot, it is clearly) why has it been empty for 18 years now? surely at least one of the 32 owners would realize that just being in LA makes them worth twice as much as any other market, wheres the stampede to be the one who gets the golden goose?

 

[AZRamsFan93]

Look, I don't need to be lectured about business and local governments here. I know full well that the fans aren't LITERALLY being held hostage. My point is I'm sick and tired of having to wonder whether a team I spend time and money to be a fan of has any desire to stay in my town. No fan base should have to go through something like this for years at a time. I think this kind of stuff happens in the NFL much more than any other major sport. Look how many teams are rumored to be moving over the past few seasons. The NFL is a private league and they can make rules or put pressure on owners to not treat their fans like this. Bottom line for me...it doesn't have to be like this.

Apologies for the lecture.

Sports franchises in every major sport have moved. I don't have any statistics on the frequency by sport but there are many, many examples. Giants, Dodgers, Lakers, Jazz, Grizzlies, Clippers, Pelicans, Thunder, Coyotes, Braves, etc...

Being a fan and spending hard earned money is clearly optional.

 

[moklerman]

Lemme know when he does buy the White House, I'll be there to help the current occupant out AND BTW "gimme a break?" HROD.
But FWIW just cuz a minor land purchase happened it doesn't change the same discussion ,topical yes, change the game no, evabody still sayin the same ol same ol,including you.

Just who are you trying to convince?

You agree that it's topical and the pages of posts would seem to indicate people want to talk about it. Kroenke trying to buy even more land near the Forum is obviously worth speculating about. The NFL narrowing the new draft location to L.A. or Chicago is also new and possibly connected.

Your claim that there's nothing new to talk about is simply wrong.

 

[So Ram]

I

the fans will come no matter where the new stadium is built, be it St Louis or LA, for 11 or 12 years there were nothing but sell outs in the dome, then came the worst 5 year stretch of any team in the NFL even with all that losing there has still only been about 10 (if that high) non sell outs in the teams 18 years here, a crap team and the unrest over the stadium issues yet they are hardly ever blacked out on TV shows the fans will be there.
they had a proposal for Hollywood park, that's nice, they also had proposals for about 5 or 6 other sites and not one of them has gotten anywhere, if LA is this golden goose you claim it to be (im not saying its not a desirable spot, it is clearly) why has it been empty for 18 years now? surely at least one of the 32 owners would realize that just being in LA makes them worth twice as much as any other market, wheres the stampede to be the one who gets the golden goose?

LA is built on winners.If Jacksonville(check out there new score board) or say even San Diego comes into town.The fans won't support them.

The Rams are a different story.They are built for the near future.I'm saying The Rams will end up in The LA Forums backyard. I say 80% chance of knowing in 8 months.

 

[RamFan503]

Look, I don't need to be lectured about business and local governments here. I know full well that the fans aren't LITERALLY being held hostage. My point is I'm sick and tired of having to wonder whether a team I spend time and money to be a fan of has any desire to stay in my town. No fan base should have to go through something like this for years at a time. I think this kind of stuff happens in the NFL much more than any other major sport. Look how many teams are rumored to be moving over the past few seasons. The NFL is a private league and they can make rules or put pressure on owners to not treat their fans like this. Bottom line for me...it doesn't have to be like this.

I don't really think AZ was trying to lecture. I certainly get your frustration and I have a hard time disagreeing with either of you really.

 

[RamFan503]

I


LA is built on winners.If Jacksonville(check out there new score board) or say even San Diego comes into town.The fans won't support them.

The Rams are a different story.They are built for the near future.I'm saying The Rams will end up in The LA Forums backyard. I say 80% chance of knowing in 8 months.

Quick suggestion. Tone it down a bit. You appear to be begging for a fight that will have no winner here.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Not to through fuel on the fire but if LA landed the draft I could very easily see the commish announcing a team moving there draft day.

 

[shaunpinney]

Stans a businessman, he also owns land in the UK, actually there's a few hundred acres behind my house, Stan? Interested? South Wales Rams sounds cool to me....

 

[Thordaddy]

Just who are you trying to convince?

You agree that it's topical and the pages of posts would seem to indicate people want to talk about it. Kroenke trying to buy even more land near the Forum is obviously worth speculating about. The NFL narrowing the new draft location to L.A. or Chicago is also new and possibly connected.

Your claim that there's nothing new to talk about is simply wrong.

Point out something new ,he is or he isn't moving and the perspectives aren't changing but I'm not trying to convince anyone ,made my POV known long ago and several times , I retired from the thread until summoned by someone it seems is trying to prove something as IN that I'm "wrong" which even if I am isn't anything "new".
Of course people want to talk about it , there are other topics that get talked to death as well doesn't mean there's anything "new " to say" rehash is what's happening ,I could add mine but no need. Unless you are pining for my other "wrong" perspectives I'll go back to trying to find something new and stimulating instead af pages of rehash,or if you find something really new ,like a statement out of Rams park not the endless mind reading.