Kevin Demoff wrong about Rams; they are a rebuild.

[iamme33]

I agree. As I said above, though, I wonder how one would quantify it.
Obviously not everyone is in agreement that there's a specific amount of turnover that would quantify it. 2009 was a rebuild, and so was 2012, so how many players would we have to lose in addition to the entire coaching staff to call this one a rebuild too? And for the record, I don't think it is one either. For me, there has to be a specific amount of *CORE* players remaining in order to avoid it being labeled a rebuild.

its definitely a coaching rebuild but imo not a player rebuild.

 

[Warner4Prez]

There are a smattering of players for the incoming regime to build around, and that's not counting guys that are impending FAs with the option to run if they don't like the new coach.
On D, you've got Ogletree, Donald, Brockers and an increasingly unreliable Quinn. I like Barron, Alexander and Hayes but those aren't guys you build a team around.

On offense you've got Gurley, Austin (most of you probably wouldn't count anyway) and *maybe* Goff. Hav has played well in spots, Brown/Wichmann might offer something. Beyond that...

It's an attractive job for an incoming coach, but most of that is because of ownership, which should be largely hands off. Who's to say that a coach is going to enjoy the glitz and glamor of LA? I think that's the most over-hyped aspect of this job. By and large I think most coaches are perfectly happy with relative anonymity and would prefer to have a place like MN where the fans and media are a bit more forgiving.

 

[Zero]

It's called being a professional. Do your job. Play after play.

Sounds good,but it's not reality.

 

[iamme33]

IMHO unless we get a once in a generation miracle worker in here, we are years away from a winning record let alone the playoffs.

this is the way I felt after the end of the season. after a little time i'm back to thinking it won't take that much to get back to being competitive. in free agency we get a left tackle and a guard then in the draft we take best w r at #2, center at #3 then de and corners ( maybe a lb if a good one falls) with the rest of the draft. this would give us a ol of lt (fa) lg(fa) center barnes(until rookie is ready) rg grob rt haverstien with scaffold as #1 back up. if our #2 pick turns out to be a #2 receiver then we have britt and rookie( 2#2s) ta a good gadget player and a #3 out of cooper spruce or Thomas.thats not a bad receiving corp. if we hit on a corner and de our df should be top 10. pluss we have the udfa that we have had some luck with. we have to get a coaching staff to coach them up that's a lot of ifs but we have had so much bad luck we are due. oh my god I feel play offs next year and sb the year after.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Sounds good,but it's not reality.

Respectfully disagree. Didn't prevent the Browns from scratching out their only win in Week 16 and fighting like hell in OT the next week.
Same goes for the sorry ass 49ers that somehow managed to scratch out a win against us.

Because?

"What else did we have to lose?"

VS

"The last few possessions, it seemed like we gave up, the whole team, including myself."

 

[LACHAMP46]

Sounds good,but it's not reality.

oh no?

Teams all the time face turmoil in the season...some fold...Some get it together...Every year. The Packers could have folded...they won 6 straight to get to the playoffs. Jags...played hard to the end. Look at the Dolphins that are playing now..Indy....Denver...Ravens..Lions....Teams that could have folded but hung together to make a bad season better.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-2016-regular-season-grades-for-every-team-010317

 

[snackdaddy]

I'm not sure its a total rebuild. The offense doesn't have much to build around so it might be considered a rebuild on that side of the ball. But realistically, you can't just clean house with player personnel and start over. So even that isn't a total rebuild. At least not in the first year.

The defense just needs a few tweaks. Maybe some help at LB and DB. But the offense needs a whole culture/system change along with some player changes. And they have to do everything they can do put Goff in a position to succeed. We can debate the merits of that trade to move up for him. But whats done is done. Now they have to try and make it work. If it doesn't its going to set this team back for a few years.

 

[Zero]

oh no?

Teams all the time face turmoil in the season...some fold...Some get it together...Every year. The Packers could have folded...they won 6 straight to get to the playoffs. Jags...played hard to the end. Look at the Dolphins that are playing now..Indy....Denver...Ravens..Lions....Teams that could have folded but hung together to make a bad season better.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-2016-regular-season-grades-for-every-team-010317

What did these teams have that the Rams didn't?
Competent coaching with systems that actually resembled an NFL offense.
Their defenses aren't forced to hold teams to under 10 pts to even have a chance
at winning.And then have to listen to their coach at the press conference talk about
how the defense has to play better in order to win games.

I think you are misjudging the depth of coaching dysfunction that our players had to endure.
The teams that you mention know their coaching staff is going to put them in a position
to have a chance.Can you say that about our old staff?

We're not talking about something that these guys had to endure for a season.This is something
that happened year in and year out.These guys knew they were forced to play in a system
that is subpar.These guys knew that when adjustments needed to be made in a game
that their so called leaders would come up short.That kind of incompetence wears on
a player.For you to say that these guys are professionals and that none of this should
affect them is complete BS.If you were forced to deal with this historically bad offense
on a daily basis knowing you were being set up to fail, it would affect you.


http://www.ocregister.com/articles/rams-739490-yards-game.html

 

[LACHAMP46]

What did these teams have that the Rams didn't?

Effort at the end of the season during games. We don't know which teams were dysfunctional. Hell, like noted above, the Cleveland team would appear dysfunctional...but yet there they were, battling to the end the last 2 weeks of the season. that's not coaching per se....not now...maybe how they were coached growing up...A lot of these players quit...and were protecting themselves. Even Trumaine Johnson said as much.

Trumaine Johnson said:
"The last few possessions, it seemed like we gave up, the whole team, including myself."

 

[bwdenverram]

I agree. As I said above, though, I wonder how one would quantify it.
Obviously not everyone is in agreement that there's a specific amount of turnover that would quantify it. 2009 was a rebuild, and so was 2012, so how many players would we have to lose in addition to the entire coaching staff to call this one a rebuild too? And for the record, I don't think it is one either. For me, there has to be a specific amount of *CORE* players remaining in order to avoid it being labeled a rebuild.

I think we can "rebuild" as fast as the Raiders did. It took two years to go from what, 1-15 to playoffs and 10+ wins?
If we can build our OL like they did that's a huge start.

 

[Zero]

Effort at the end of the season during games. We don't know which teams were dysfunctional. Hell, like noted above, the Cleveland team would appear dysfunctional...but yet there they were, battling to the end the last 2 weeks of the season. that's not coaching per se....not now...maybe how they were coached growing up...A lot of these players quit...and were protecting themselves. Even Trumaine Johnson said as much.

Cleveland is not dysfunctional, not anymore.
They have a leader they can believe in.Which goes back to my original post.
As bad as their record was this year they know they have a coach with the
ability to turn them around.If he fails,if his team suspects he doesn't know what
he is doing,in time you will see players doing the same thing some of our guys were doing.
It's human nature and it happens quite a bit in sports.

Our guys had been playing for a coach who has proven time and again
that he is incapable of putting them in a position to win.The players are
not stupid.They sense when a leader doesn't have what it takes to lead
them to excel.
I'm not saying I condone some of these guys giving up,but
I understand it.Not every player is going to posses the resolve of
Aaron Donald.You could see it in Todd Gurley.Gurley had no faith
in what the OC was selling and it showed.You give this same player
a system he can believe in a leader he can believe in
and you will see a different player on Sundays.
Does that mean you cut the guy?The bottom line is players get frustrated.
Some handle it better than others,but if you get rid of all the players
who don't handle it like Donald then you are gonna have a hard time
fielding a team.

 

[Scirca]

Cleveland is not dysfunctional, not anymore.
They have a leader they can believe in.Which goes back to my original post.
As bad as their record was this year they know they have a coach with the
ability to turn them around.If he fails,if his team suspects he doesn't know what
he is doing,in time you will see players doing the same thing some of our guys were doing.
It's human nature and it happens quite a bit in sports.

Our guys had been playing for a coach who has proven time and again
that he is incapable of putting them in a position to win.The players are
not stupid.They sense when a leader doesn't have what it takes to lead
them to excel.
I'm not saying I condone some of these guys giving up,but
I understand it.Not every player is going to posses the resolve of
Aaron Donald.You could see it in Todd Gurley.Gurley had no faith
in what the OC was selling and it showed.You give this same player
a system he can believe in a leader he can believe in
and you will see a different player on Sundays.
Does that mean you cut the guy?The bottom line is players get frustrated.
Some handle it better than others,but if you get rid of all the players
who don't handle it like Donald then you are gonna have a hard time
fielding a team.

All of our offensive linemen combined doesn't equal one Joe Thomas.

 

[Zero]

All of our offensive linemen combined doesn't equal one Joe Thomas.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Sportsed]

There's a bunch of talent on this team. Teams consist of players and coaches; if these players were playing up to their potential/ability level, and we played like we did this year, then I would say it's the players. If that was/is the case then we definitely need to rebuild, it not, then coaching is a major factor in this debacle this year. If this coaching staff was not a major reason------they just needed better players, they'd still be here. After 5 years of this regime, I could really tell this year that coaching was the major reason we played so poorly. How many offensive players have we seen major improvement in their skills/ability level in the last 5 years; NONE---not one, Quick, Tavon, GRob, none of these guys, especially offensively, have actually made major strides in improving (and that's nearly impossible that nobody has gotten better). Before we commit to a complete rebuild we need to find out how good these guys are (I think that was why we got rid of the previous coaching staff). All players----at least 90% of them----need to improve when entering the nfl, and that has not happened for us. New coaching staff, with an emphasis on player development, will tell us if it was poor coaching or the players.

 

[Rambitious1]

this is the way I felt after the end of the season. after a little time i'm back to thinking it won't take that much to get back to being competitive. in free agency we get a left tackle and a guard then in the draft we take best w r at #2, center at #3 then de and corners ( maybe a lb if a good one falls) with the rest of the draft. this would give us a ol of lt (fa) lg(fa) center barnes(until rookie is ready) rg grob rt haverstien with scaffold as #1 back up. if our #2 pick turns out to be a #2 receiver then we have britt and rookie( 2#2s) ta a good gadget player and a #3 out of cooper spruce or Thomas.thats not a bad receiving corp. if we hit on a corner and de our df should be top 10. pluss we have the udfa that we have had some luck with. we have to get a coaching staff to coach them up that's a lot of ifs but we have had so much bad luck we are due. oh my god I feel play offs next year and sb the year after.

And after I take some time, think it through, perhaps I'll change my mind on that.
I hope so.

 

[tempests]

We're not talking about something that these guys had to endure for a season.This is something
that happened year in and year out.These guys knew they were forced to play in a system
that is subpar.These guys knew that when adjustments needed to be made in a game
that their so called leaders would come up short.That kind of incompetence wears on
a player.For you to say that these guys are professionals and that none of this should
affect them is complete BS.If you were forced to deal with this historically bad offense
on a daily basis knowing you were being set up to fail, it would affect you.

You assume the players had as much contempt for their coaches as you do.

 

[Zero]

You assume the players had as much contempt for their coaches as you do.

There is really nothing to assume.These guys had been
shown time and again that the system was flawed.
It was predictable. Opponents knew what we were doing.
They witnessed our inability to make adjustments during the game.

As far as my "contempt",do you think its unfounded?
We were in the top 5 worst offenseive outputs in the NFL since 1960.

 

[Ramrasta]

I don't see how there is any debate. This is definitely a rebuild. Every team that is in the rebuilding process has pieces... it's not like they are working with nothing to begin with. We are the worst offense in the NFL by a mile and our defensive roster is diminishing. We need help at OT, OG, C, TE, WR, CB, OLB, FS, DE depth and you can debate about QB as well. That's basically as much rebuilding as you can get.

 

[shaunpinney]

I don't see how there is any debate. This is definitely a rebuild. Every team that is in the rebuilding process has pieces... it's not like they are working with nothing to begin with. We are the worst offense in the NFL by a mile and our defensive roster is diminishing. We need help at OT, OG, C, TE, WR, CB, OLB, FS, DE depth and you can debate about QB as well. That's basically as much rebuilding as you can get.

Don't forget we need a full compliment of coaches too

 

[Dodgersrf]

You assume the players had as much contempt for their coaches as you do.

Contempt? No.
Lack of faith? Absolutely.
When you have a talent like Gurley, comparing our offense to that of a middle school, there is little confidence in what is being taught.