How concerned are you with our WRs?

[lockdnram21]

As FRO said, if Pead is so talented why try to trade him? Why give Stacy first crack at the starting job after Richardson proved ineffective? Why go with Cunningham as back up RB over Pead? Why draft Mason?

If Quick has all the physical talent why did his snaps decrees as the season went on in favour of someone who showed the ability to catch the ball?

Either they made a mistake in drafting the two or they made a mistake in drafting replacements/reducing their role. Which is it?

Quicks snaps didn't go down he was on the field a lot he just didn't get targeted much. as coach and i both said he was open a lot. I think a lot of him not being targeted was due to Clemens not going through his reads and not having time. When Clemens did target him he caught the balls that should have been caught

 

[Rams and Gators]

No it's not. Has Quick passed the look test for you constantly in an NFL game? Did Givens pass the look test? According to Tennessee fans, they haven't seen worse WR play than they saw with Britt. To me Bailey was our best looking WR last year and Austin got hurt when he was getting it.

Maybe I'm too pessimistic.

Me I came away more disappointed in Quick after the eye test than the "fantasy football" test.

 

[jrry32]

After the first game of the year I felt like we struck good with Cook. I was terribly disappointed for most of the year with him. Maybe that first game skewed my expectations to unreasonable levels. I'm a huge Bailey and Austin fan. My concern is will the suspension put Bailey in a hole he can't get out of, and will we use Austin correctly ?

Well, we won't have answers to any of that for quite awhile. No use agonizing over it. Might as well be optimistic while you can be. What's the worst that can happen? Nobody steps up at WR and we have another year with a bad WR corp?

Well, if that happens, you're going to be angry no matter what you said on May 20th. Might as well enjoy the optimism while you can.

As far as Cook goes, he was very inconsistent but once Sam went down, wasn't much he could do. Clemens just couldn't throw vertically.

Plus, gotta remember that Cook was also in his first year in Schotty's offense. While he's not a rookie, it's still not easy to learn a whole new system.

 

[-X-]

I was just very disappointed in the group last year. Maybe I expected too much. I'm not asking for superstars, I just want solid play and to be at the league average in the drops department. If we can do that I see a playoff team.

Yeah, we all want that. The drops should go away. I remember Kendricks couldn't catch a cold his first year, and then he turned around to be one of the more sure-handed receivers on the team. Your expectations are right on par with everyone else, and there was a let down last year. I won't attribute it all to Bradford going down, but that didn't help. Plus the change in offense to ground-n-pound had a hand in it all too.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Quicks snaps didn't go down he was on the field a lot he just didn't get targeted much. as coach and i both said he was open a lot. I think a lot of him not being targeted was due to Clemens not going through his reads and not having time. When Clemens did target him he caught the balls that should have been caught

No sorry you're right, I just saw his low snap count over the last few games and assumed that was a reduction .

 

[CoachO]

Well, I get the concerns. It's a common practice to use past performances as future indicators, especially in relation to football. You or I may not subscribe to that, but it's our job to take up the other side of the debate and present our arguments with sound logic and reasoning. I don't get all the "he's a bust" or "he's a bum" talk, but there's nothing I can do about that kind of standoffish and lazy analysis. Best to avoid those kinds of absolutes. I'd prefer you stayed, remained calm, and continued to share your opinions with those who appear to be more susceptible to rational discussion. Your opinion means a great deal to me because of your close proximity to these guys during the evaluation process (camp), and your ability to zero-in on what the coaches are trying to accomplish.

I do appreciate that, and I am just trying to avoid turning this into becoming something I know you work really hard to keep from happening.

I do like to think I can offer a different perspective, not that my opinion means more than anyone else's. But it is base on first hand knowledge of things I actually see up close.

I also try to bring a former coach's perspective to things, and while I don't always agree with WHAT they are doing, I try to understand WHY they are doing some of the things they do. If I form an opinion from that, than it is what it is. But like you, I just don't get the labeling of players "busts" when obviously this staff doesn't seem to think that.

I have not heard anyone call Richardson a "bust", even though he went from "THE GUY" to being released even before the OTA's began. Way too much is put into where a guy was drafted IMO. Once these guys hit the practice field, no on in that locker room, or meeting room cares one bit where a guy was selected, or if he was drafted at all. All they care about is if they can play. But yet, "fans" seem to think its gospel because someone was drafted in this round over that round, he is a undeniable bust after two seasons.

 

[-X-]

I also try to bring a former coach's perspective to things, and while I don't always agree with WHAT they are doing, I try to understand WHY they are doing some of the things they do.

That's the often overlooked, but most important part of these kinds of discussions. WHY they are doing the things they do. Some of it is more easy to spot. Need to bolster your run game, take Robinson and Mason. Need to bolster your pass rush and run defense, take Donald. Your DC wants to blitz from everywhere on the field, take a bunch of fast and physical DBs. But when it comes to receiver, there's not enough of a delving into what they're trying to do offensively. Taking Watkins (or whoever) doesn't add as much of a net improvement to achieving their team philosophy than some other guys do. I'm so confident that the receivers we have will be more than adequate, that I put $1M ROD Coins on Quick/Britt outproducing Watkins (wasn't my bet, but I jumped all over it).

 

[Rams and Gators]

That's the often overlooked, but most important part of these kinds of discussions. WHY they are doing the things they do. Some of it is more easy to spot. Need to bolster your run game, take Robinson and Mason. Need to bolster your pass rush and run defense, take Donald. Your DC wants to blitz from everywhere on the field, take a bunch of fast and physical DBs. But when it comes to receiver, there's not enough of a delving into what they're trying to do offensively. Taking Watkins (or whoever) doesn't add as much of a net improvement to achieving their team philosophy than some other guys do. I'm so confident that the receivers we have will be more than adequate, that I put $1M ROD Coins on Quick/Britt outproducing Watkins (wasn't my bet, but I jumped all over it).

2.

 

[FRO]

Good debate on here. Sorry some got upset over it, but if we all agreed on 100% of everything this stuff would get boring. I love a good civil debate. My final note on the topic, yes I view the WR position as of 5-20-14 as the weak link on the team. 3-1-15 I could view it in a totally different light. We have guys with talent, they need to step to the plate this year. It's going to be a fun season.

 

[FRO]

That's the often overlooked, but most important part of these kinds of discussions. WHY they are doing the things they do. Some of it is more easy to spot. Need to bolster your run game, take Robinson and Mason. Need to bolster your pass rush and run defense, take Donald. Your DC wants to blitz from everywhere on the field, take a bunch of fast and physical DBs. But when it comes to receiver, there's not enough of a delving into what they're trying to do offensively. Taking Watkins (or whoever) doesn't add as much of a net improvement to achieving their team philosophy than some other guys do. I'm so confident that the receivers we have will be more than adequate, that I put $1M ROD Coins on Quick/Britt outproducing Watkins (wasn't my bet, but I jumped all over it).

Was that Britt and Quick combined?

 

[jrry32]

Yeah, we all want that. The drops should go away. I remember Kendricks couldn't catch a cold his first year, and then he turned around to be one of the more sure-handed receivers on the team. Your expectations are right on par with everyone else, and there was a let down last year. I won't attribute it all to Bradford going down, but that didn't help. Plus the change in offense to ground-n-pound had a hand in it all too.

Tavon had one of if not the highest drop rate in the league through the first 5 games and then didn't drop a single pass the rest of the year. It's a mental thing. When you have so much on your plate, you don't think as fast, you don't react as fast, and your instincts aren't as good. It's why sure-handed rookies often drop more passes than you expect...because learning the pro game is so much work mentally that something has to give. When you're thinking about what coverage you're facing, what your depth is on the route, what your options are, when to make your break, who the hot read is, what the QB called at the LOS, etc., you're going to be a little distracted which will have an effect on your ability to catch the ball.

 

[Prime Time]

Well, we won't have answers to any of that for quite awhile. No use agonizing over it. Might as well be optimistic while you can be. What's the worst that can happen? Nobody steps up at WR and we have another year with a bad WR corp?

Well, if that happens, you're going to be angry no matter what you said on May 20th. Might as well enjoy the optimism while you can.

According to some that would make us "homers." Would rather be known for that though then "negative nabobs of negativism."

This is painfully obvious to mention but it is after all a team game. The lack of a good offense is a combination of breakdowns in many areas not just at the WR position. Yeah there is inexperience, an inability to get separation at times, wrong route running, and far too many drops but...injuries on the O-line and QB positions, fault with play calling by the OC, a rookie RB, and even some fault might lie with the TE's. Put that all together and we're gonna have problems scoring. And then there's the six divisional games we play each season against three of the toughest defenses in the NFL.

According to the purveyors of gloom and doom(none here at ROD of course ):

1. Our WR's all suck and will never improve
2. Sam Bradford sucks and is over-paid
3. Our O-line will never stay healthy
4. Jeff Fisher will never be better than a 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 head coach
5. Schottenheimer stinks and is the wrong OC for this team
6. We drafted all the wrong players once again

What a crummy way to be a fan when you don't even have any hope for the coming season. It sucks to be you.

 

[max]

You know he would have been available at 65 overall (Rams first pick in the third round), even though 4 other receivers went off the board before that? How could you possibly know that? For all you know, he could have been gone before their second 2nd round pick.

The Quick pick at #33 was a head scratcher for every draft guy I read, heard, or spoke with. I challenge you to find one resource that had Quick anywhere near #33. You see it all the time, a team falls in love with a "secret" player and just has to have him regardless of what his value is. That's fine, but not at the top of the 2nd round.

Drafting well means understanding where players are slotted and moving in the draft if necessary to align with the value of the player. The Rams did that last year with both Austin and Ogletree. When you draft scared at the top of the draft you lose at the draft in the long run.

Would Quick have been available at 65? My guess is probably. But that's short sighted. The question is was he going in the top half of the 2nd round because they could have traded down from #33 and taken him lower in the 2nd round to hedge their bet and picked up another draft pick.

I don't go to see all the practices at training camp but I did go to the draft this year, and I learned a lot talking with a lot of people. And the Quick pick was viewed as a rookie GM mistake almost universally.

 

[RustyRay]

As far as Cook goes, he was very inconsistent but once Sam went down, wasn't much he could do. Clemens just couldn't throw vertically.

Plus, gotta remember that Cook was also in his first year in Schotty's offense. While he's not a rookie, it's still not easy to learn a whole new system.

And after all the issues for Cook he still had the best statistical receiving season for a Rams TE in the history of the franchise.

 

[FRO]

Well, we won't have answers to any of that for quite awhile. No use agonizing over it. Might as well be optimistic while you can be. What's the worst that can happen? Nobody steps up at WR and we have another year with a bad WR corp?

Well, if that happens, you're going to be angry no matter what you said on May 20th. Might as well enjoy the optimism while you can.

As far as Cook goes, he was very inconsistent but once Sam went down, wasn't much he could do. Clemens just couldn't throw vertically.

Plus, gotta remember that Cook was also in his first year in Schotty's offense. While he's not a rookie, it's still not easy to learn a whole new system.

It doesn't help when Cook and Austin were the focal point of the pass game and it was their first year on the squad with one guy being a rookie. Also throw in a new RB. Things should be more established. The only things that suck are Bradford coming off injury, wondering if Long will be ready in time, and the Bailey suspension. Having established roles and being comfortable in the offense is a huge plus.

 

[CoachO]

Tavon had one of if not the highest drop rate in the league through the first 5 games and then didn't drop a single pass the rest of the year. It's a mental thing. When you have so much on your plate, you don't think as fast, you don't react as fast, and your instincts aren't as good. It's why sure-handed rookies often drop more passes than you expect...because learning the pro game is so much work mentally that something has to give. When you're thinking about what coverage you're facing, what your depth is on the route, what your options are, when to make your break, who the hot read is, what the QB called at the LOS, etc., you're going to be a little distracted which will have an effect on your ability to catch the ball.

Exactly, and why the whole debate is futile when it comes to making premature judgments on players at this position. It has been noted that Schottenheimer's system, especially the passing game is very complex and expecting such a young group to grasp it right away is unrealistic.

Kinda been the point I have been trying to make all along (not very well apparently). Let the game slow down for these guys, and let the athleticism take over. And to overstate the obvious, each of them have a different learning curve. But that being said, I for one, expect to see a huge difference in many of these same players with another year in this system.

 

[FRO]

According to some that would make us "homers." Would rather be known for that though then "negative nabobs of negativism."

This is painfully obvious to mention but it is after all a team game. The lack of a good offense is a combination of breakdowns in many areas not just at the WR position. Yeah there is inexperience, an inability to get separation at times, wrong route running, and far too many drops but...injuries on the O-line and QB positions, fault with play calling by the OC, a rookie RB, and even some fault might lie with the TE's. Put that all together and we're gonna have problems scoring. And then there's the six divisional games we play each season against three of the toughest defenses in the NFL.

According to the purveyors of gloom and doom(none here at ROD of course ):

1. Our WR's all suck and will never improve
2. Sam Bradford sucks and is over-paid
3. Our O-line will never stay healthy
4. Jeff Fisher will never be better than a 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 head coach
5. Schottenheimer stinks and is the wrong OC for this team
6. We drafted all the wrong players once again

What a crummy way to be a fan when you don't even have any hope for the coming season. It sucks to be you.

To be fair to me, I have been total doom and gloom. I shared my concern for our receiving corps. I think it's a legitimate concern. While I'm not as optimistic as some, I don't believe I have been overly negative. I believe I have been fair. I am also biased towards myself and I could be acting like a real A-hole and just not realizing it.

 

[jrry32]

The Quick pick at #33 was a head scratcher for every draft guy I read, heard, or spoke with. I challenge you to find one resource that had Quick anywhere near #33. You see it all the time, a team falls in love with a "secret" player and just has to have him regardless of what his value is. That's fine, but not at the top of the 2nd round.

Drafting well means understanding where players are slotted and moving in the draft if necessary to align with the value of the player. The Rams did that last year with both Austin and Ogletree. When you draft scared at the top of the draft you lose at the draft in the long run.

Would Quick have been available at 65? My guess is probably. But that's short sighted. The question is was he going in the top half of the 2nd round because they could have traded down from #33 and taken him lower in the 2nd round to hedge their bet and picked up another draft pick.

I don't go to see all the practices at training camp but I did go to the draft this year, and I learned a lot talking with a lot of people. And the Quick pick was viewed as a rookie GM mistake almost universally.

That's fine regardless of where you pick him. Just get the pick right.

That's how I draft. I don't make my big board based on who will get drafted where or who others think are the best talents. I identify players that stand out to me that I think will be special and that fit the scheme as well as needs. I put those players on the draft board. The others? I don't. I don't care if Marqise Lee is considered a top 40 talent and most people think he'll be productive. I'm going to draft the guy I feel will be special. And if that's not Marqise Lee, I'm not drafting him.

So I don't disagree with that approach. You trust your evaluative ability and pick the guys you feel strongest about...regardless of where others ranked them. If you're a good evaluator, in the end, it won't matter. Drafting well is simple. It's just about evaluating talent. Who cares if you drafted Russell Wilson in the 3rd when he would have fallen to the 5th? Certainly nobody will be complaining if the guy turns into a quality player. Evaluate talent, trust your gut, and trust your board. Trying to figure out where players are slotted and whether you can get them at different points in the draft is pure guess-work. And it's risky. If you feel strongly about a guy, take him where you can get him.

FWIW, rumor was that the Jets wanted Quick and would have taken him instead of Stephen Hill.

 

[jrry32]

Exactly, and why the whole debate is futile when it comes to making premature judgments on players at this position. It has been noted that Schottenheimer's system, especially the passing game is very complex and expecting such a young group to grasp it right away is unrealistic.

Kinda been the point I have been trying to make all along (not very well apparently). Let the game slow down for these guys, and let the athleticism take over. And to overstate the obvious, each of them have a different learning curve. But that being said, I for one, expect to see a huge difference in many of these same players with another year in this system.

Yep. It's what I tried to tell people about Watkins. As talented as he is, there's major learning curve. Expecting Watkins to step in and be an immediate #1 WR is unrealistic. Especially in this system.

As far as Quick is concerned, I don't know what he will be. I did not like the pick. But he's a Ram and he has my support until he's no longer a Ram.

 

[FRO]

Exactly, and why the whole debate is futile when it comes to making premature judgments on players at this position. It has been noted that Schottenheimer's system, especially the passing game is very complex and expecting such a young group to grasp it right away is unrealistic.

Kinda been the point I have been trying to make all along (not very well apparently). Let the game slow down for these guys, and let the athleticism take over. And to overstate the obvious, each of them have a different learning curve. But that being said, I for one, expect to see a huge difference in many of these same players with another year in this system.

For the rookies I understand your point. It's fair. And for those expecting Watkins to come in and be a 1,000 yard guy, it probably won't happen because rookies just don't put up those types of rookie numbers. I wanted Watkins because long term I feel like he will be an elite WR. I am also more than fine with the Robinson pick. The disconnect between me and you is over Quick. Your on the optimistic side, I'm on the pessimistic side. I pray to God that you are right and I am wrong. I just feel like we should have seen more out of him in 2 years than we have. The talent is definitely there. Not denying that, but will he get it mentally. That's the 100 million dollar question.