Greg Cosell loves Watkins

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jjab360

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Watch. His. Tape.
I already have. He's a good receiver prospect. That being said, the fact that you refused to watch the Alshon Jeffery tape shows that you are ignoring that there are a lot of good receivers in the NFL, a lot of whom have better hands and are tougher runners than Watkins. He's not some otherworldly prospect that you're trying to make him out to be.
 

jrry32

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Watch. His. Tape.

RFIP, I know jjab well, I'm sure he's seen Watkins play. I've seen Watkins play. His hands do not rival Alshon's. He doesn't run like Lynch. Those are total exaggerations.

I live in the state of South Carolina. I've seen Watkins play many many times live. And I've reviewed his film. You're way off on him. WAY off. You've gone off the reservation here.

If you really want to argue Watkins hands are as good as Alshon's, go ahead and show him making catches like these:






Actually no, I am not curious to watch that tape however I would be to see the one of Jenkins vs Taint, either round 1 or round 2 of this past year. You got that one? Because after people see it they will think that if Jenkins could shut down Jeffrey that would be a major black mark AGAINST AJ.
And by the way, we better all PRAY Jenkins never has to line up opposite Sammy Watkins because Watkins would run through him, by him and OVER HIM, with out breaking stride.


Well, I don't care if you care. I posted it for the people on this board who like Jenkins and wanted to see it. A major black mark against Alshon? That's not a major black mark. Janoris was a shutdown CB in college. Did the same thing to AJ Green and Julio Jones.

If you want to talk black marks, getting shutdown by Jimmy Legree and Victor Hampton is much more of a black mark. Like Watkins was in 2012.
 

jrry32

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Let's not break up over it:LOL: Lee, IMO, has an unconventional way of catching the ball, but I still think he has good hands. Bruce, for instance, wasn't conventional. I bet that Lee will change the way he catches it before the combine. Like I said, I'm looking forward to it. I think Watkins is good, but don't put him on the level of CJ, so I just don't know if the value is there. The Rams could think differently.

For the record, I'd be a fan of the Rams taking either player as long as it's not at 1.2, and I would put Watkins over Lee, but I still think Lee is special, and I think we have greater needs than WR.

I'll take that into advisement. We may need couples counseling. ;)

Unconventional definitely is the word. I don't trust it especially with how unreliable his hands were this year. But I know I've made exceptions in the past(Torrey Smith) so I don't blame you for doing the same.
 

RFIP

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Well Jrry you have your opinion and I have mine. We shall see who is right. Tangable things that I know as fact are; Watkins will be drafted MUCH higher, is a consensus better rated prospect coming out and won't be fat and lazy year 1.

This is going to be fun watch play out...and we will revisit this.

Oh and I'll leave you with this:
Sammy Watkins best WR since A.J. Green, Julio Jones, says NFL.com writer
'He's got size, speed, hands, shiftiness, explosion. I think Sammy Watkins is hands down the best receiver in this draft'

It's Sammy Watkins, then everyone else, according to NFL.com's Chase Goodbread.

'Everyone,' he writes, includes anyone since A.J. Green and Julio Jones in 2011.

The NFL.com blogger bases his assessment on NFL Films producer Greg Cosell's analysis for a Nashville radio station.

"To me, there is no debate here," Cosell said. "I think Sammy Watkins, based on what I've seen, is the best receiver in this draft. And I think you can make the argument that he's the best wide receiver to come out since the A.J. Green, Julio Jones 2011 draft. I mean, he's got size, speed, hands, shiftiness, explosion. I think Sammy Watkins is hands down the best receiver in this draft."

Watkins made a career-high 101 receptions for the Tigers as a junior for 1,464 yards. NFL Media analyst Charles Davis' latest mock draft projects Watkins to land with an NFL team that has historically been attracted to speedy wide receivers: the Oakland Raiders with the No. 5 overall pick.

Others have projected Watkins to the Cleveland Browns with the No. pick. There is unanimous agreement that he won't get out of the top 10.

Other top receivers projected by Davis for the first round include Southern Cal's Marqise Lee (No. 13 to Rams), Texas A&M's Mike Evans (No. 15 to Steelers), LSU's Odell Beckham (No. 26 to Browns), Florida State's Kelvin Benjamin (No. 30 to 49ers) and Penn State's Allen Robinson (No. 32 to Seahawks).

Cosell, meanwhile rates FSU's 6-6 Benjamin third behind Watkins and Lee.

 

jrry32

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Well Jrry you have your opinion and I have mine. We shall see who is right. Tangable things that I know as fact are; Watkins will be drafted MUCH higher, is a consensus better rated prospect coming out and won't be fat and lazy year 1.

This is going to be fun watch play out...and we will revisit this.

I'm fine with dissenting opinions but get your facts right. Calling Alshon fat and lazy in year 1 is a lie. And that type of stuff doesn't fly in discussions with me. Disagree with me all you want. I'm fine with that. I'll defend my stance but at the end of the day, I will respect your opinion. But don't lie to my face and call it a fact.

Alshon was not fat, lazy or out of shape year 1.
"If he wasn't in shape his senior year (in college), that's the past," Bears general manager Phil Emery said. "The Alshon I've known has taken very good care of his body. Alshon came in in tremendous shape. I thought he came in in good shape last year."

And as far as Greg Cosell goes, he basically admitted he was wrong about Alshon during the 2013 season. Said he has as much ability as Brandon Marshall but just needs to prove it over time before he ranks him as the better WR and said that he sees Alshon as a potential star because of his deceptive speed due to his long strides, his size and his great hands. He admitted that he evaluated that speed incorrectly when Alshon was coming out.

But yea, I guess we will see.
 

RFIP

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The ability to high point the ball, to erase defenders angles, to always hands catch the rock, to not only make tough catches in traffic but the uncanny ability to then get up field at top speed in a split second and the ability to score from anywhere on the field.

 

CGI_Ram

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Okay; let's draft Watkins.

Damn. Love this guy. We need oline help, but dude is a serious talent. I think he's can't-miss.
 

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Ok, I guess i will chime in on this thread.

Alshon is a beast, and yes, he has amazing hands. I wanted Allen first, and Alshon second. Alshon has amazing hands, better than Watkins, I can't argue that, and really have no reason to. Watkins is a different type of WR. He is a superior Torry Smith. He is a faster and better version of Roddy White(potentially).

Quick was supposed to be our Jeffery's. I have my doubt that he lives up to the T.O. comparisons. I am giving him a chance, but still, if they think Watkins would be an upgrade over him now and long term(which i believe he is), then I see no reason why they shouldnt grab him, regardless of comparisons.

Basically for me it comes down to this. I prefer the combo of Watkins, Bailey and Austin over Quick, Bailey and Austin, or any other combo with our current WR's. If we draft Watkins and he is a stud, and both Bailey and Quick develop into starting caliber WR's, then hell, we find ourselves in a great situation. Instead of having a WR corp of a couple #2's and many #3's and beyond, we have a WR corp with a #1 and a few #2's. I rather have an abundance of starters rather than to few. I call that the Packers syndrome lol. We can draft Watkins, fix our O-line, and fix our secondary in one draft, and thats not even taking into account FA.

*We missed out on Alshon and it sucks. Watkins isn't the same type of WR as him though. Its apples to oranges. Both have great qualities the other doesnt.
 
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bluecollarram

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The ability to high point the ball, to erase defenders angles, to always hands catch the rock, to not only make tough catches in traffic but the uncanny ability to then get up field at top speed in a split second and the ability to score from anywhere on the field.


Damn yinzer, better get a gumband around that "thing" don't want to get any on your keyboard.:p
 

jrry32

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Okay; let's draft Watkins.

Damn. Love this guy. We need oline help, but dude is a serious talent. I think he's can't-miss.

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I think Mike Evans is can't miss. When you think about the things he does best, they are the things that translate the easiest to the NFL. When have you ever heard of a big WR busting despite being able to consistently come down with contested balls and make tough catches in traffic? You just don't. In terms of talent, I think he's can't miss. Obviously, you can't predict injuries and I don't know what type of person he is. But his skill-set to me is one of those that just screams "PRODUCTIVE".

While I know a lot of people are gung ho about Watkins. And I'm all for it if we got the OL sorted out in FA and he's the best value. I personally think looking at our needs right now, a guy like Robinson/Matthews with our first pick(wherever we trade down to) and Evans at #13 is better than the alternative.


Ok, I guess i will chime in on this thread.

Alshon is a beast, and yes, he has amazing hands. I wanted Allen first, and Alshon second. Alshon has amazing hands, better than Watkins, I can't argue that, and really have no reason to. Watkins is a different type of WR. He is a superior Torry Smith. He is a faster and better version of Roddy White(potentially).

Quick was supposed to be our Jeffery's. I have my doubt that he lives up to the T.O. comparisons. I am giving him a chance, but still, if they think Watkins would be an upgrade over him now and long term(which i believe he is), then I see no reason why they shouldnt grab him, regardless of comparisons.

Basically for me it comes down to this. I prefer the combo of Watkins, Bailey and Austin over Quick, Bailey and Austin, or any other combo with our current WR's. If we draft Watkins and he is a stud, and both Bailey and Quick develop into starting caliber WR's, then hell, we find ourselves in a great situation. Instead of having a WR corp of a couple #2's and many #3's and beyond, we have a WR corp with a #1 and a few #2's. I rather have an abundance of starters rather than to few. I call that the Packers syndrome lol. We can draft Watkins, fix our O-line, and fix our secondary in one draft, and thats not even taking into account FA.

*We missed out on Alshon and it sucks. Watkins isn't the same type of WR as him though. Its apples to oranges. Both have great qualities the other doesnt.

I agree totally. If the value is there, take Watkins...or Evans.
 

Tron

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I agree totally. If the value is there, take Watkins...or Evans.

Cant argue that. Though I prefer Watkins, if Evans is the guy, so be it. Still an upgrade. Couldn't hate at all about adding a WR who is 6'5 and physical beast lol. Either would help us. The WR situation is a mighty tricky situation.
 

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I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I think Mike Evans is can't miss. When you think about the things he does best, they are the things that translate the easiest to the NFL. When have you ever heard of a big WR busting despite being able to consistently come down with contested balls and make tough catches in traffic? You just don't. In terms of talent, I think he's can't miss. Obviously, you can't predict injuries and I don't know what type of person he is. But his skill-set to me is one of those that just screams "PRODUCTIVE".

While I know a lot of people are gung ho about Watkins. And I'm all for it if we got the OL sorted out in FA and he's the best value. I personally think looking at our needs right now, a guy like Robinson/Matthews with our first pick(wherever we trade down to) and Evans at #13 is better than the alternative.




I agree totally. If the value is there, take Watkins...or Evans.


There is something about watching these two guys that stands out to me; Watkins looks like an NFL player. Evans looks like an amazing college talent.

I'm no scout. My opinion doesn't hold water on a message board... But...

I don't know what it is... Evans long strides? His lack of separation on those highlight vids? His no show game against Missouri may have really tainted my opinion?
 

jrry32

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There is something about watching these two guys that stands out to me; Watkins looks like an NFL player. Evans looks like an amazing college talent.

I'm no scout. My opinion doesn't hold water on a message board... But...

I don't know what it is... Evans long strides? His lack of separation on those highlight vids? His no show game against Missouri may have really tainted my opinion?

This is something Greg Cosell recently said while basically eating crow on Alshon Jeffery:
When I started really getting into college evaluation for the NFL draft about eight or nine years ago, one of the things I had trouble with was projecting bigger receivers in the NFL.

Size receivers rarely look fast on film when they run. I was wrong on some guys because I would note that they weren’t fast. They’d do well in the pros and I’d wonder what I was missing. Then I started to look at the big guys differently. Their stride length is so long, that makes their speed. It seems like they eat up 15 yards in three steps.

I think a lot of people have the same issue. It's easy to miss. Evans is a long strider. He beats CBs because he doesn't look like you're moving fast. It's deceptive. It's the same thing Brandon Lloyd would do. As a CB, you flip your hips out of your back-pedal as late as you BELIEVE you can. Because when you do that, it makes it much harder for you to break and cut with the WR(as well as read the QB, keep track of the WR and track the football). That's why long striders are so dangerous. CBs underestimate their speed and are late flipping their hips. Those guys just eat up so much ground with each stride that you don't notice how fast they're moving. With a little guy like Tavon with his legs pumping 100 miles per hour, you can see it. But with huge guys like Calvin, Alshon, Moss and even Evans(not that he belongs in the speed conversation with Moss or Calvin), you miss it if you don't look at how they're moving in relation to other guys on the field.

And I think it's worth pointing out that a lot of people mistake being open for separation. For example, Watkins may look like a NFL player from his highlights but you also have to keep in mind that it's a lot easier for a guy like him to get separation against college DBs. He's blazing fast. So if they blow a coverage or don't execute their zone assignments or the DB makes a mistake, Watkins is going to get VERY open. The thing is that in the NFL, that same level of separation isn't present. You're going up against DBs that have top shelf athleticism. You're going up against top notch competition. In the NFL, you have to be able to consistently come up with the football with a DB on your back, a DB in your hip pocket, in traffic and with a hand trying to rip that ball out. That's why to me, I think Evans actually resembles more the NFL player at this stage.

Think about Chris Givens. Think about his blazing speed. How good does he look when he is able to separate with his blazing speed? Now, why is Givens not a better player? Because when he can't separate with speed, he can't be trusted to make the tough catch in traffic. He can't be trusted to pull down a contested ball. He can't be trusted to consistently make the grab with a DB trying to rip the ball out.(not that I'm saying Watkins is Givens)

And that's why I see Evans as the more can't miss player. He's already proven all that. He's proven he can do that. He gets separation but he doesn't need it to consistently come down with the catch.

Again, I do have Watkins rated a little bit higher because Watkins does have a good pair of hands. But Watkins, due to the offense he played in as well as his skill-set and competition, hasn't been consistently put in situations where he has to make difficult catches in traffic or consistently come down with contested passes. So he hasn't proven he can do it like Evans. Regardless, I see him as pretty much a can't miss guy too because at worst, I think he'll be a really good deep threat.

But catching the ball and scoring when you ran by a less talented DB and have 5 yards of separation isn't what a NFL player looks like to me. Because those type of plays just aren't that common in the NFL. To me, a NFL play(which makes me think this guy is a NFL player) is making the tough catch in traffic with a defender on your back or skying over a defender and taking the ball away or having a DB cover you nearly perfectly and still finding a way to adjust and come up with the catch. That's what makes a guy special. Watkins has the potential to do that but he hasn't proven it in the same way that Evans has.

But I would draft him higher on that potential. Plus, I think he flashes a ton of ability as a route runner.