Got my vaccine today!

[fearsomefour]

I’m not a medical examiner. Neither are you. Neither are her family members.

I’ll wait for the medical examiners to chime in.

Cause of death......Covid.

 

[fearsomefour]

For those of you hesitant to get the vaccine, if you are willing to share, is it a hesitancy against all vaccines or just Covid vaccines?

Just this one for me.
Last time I went to the doc I got the boosters I was due to get and the shingles one.

 

[Raptorman]

There is quite a bit of data on adverse reactions to vaccines that is gathered by the CDC through the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), and made available to the public. While this data may not be comprehensive, as it is based on voluntary reporting, I take your comments to be indicative of a complete mistrust of the system. Indeed, you seem to be implying a conspiratorial cover up.

I do not share such feelings.

Then tell us. Why has no person officially died from a vaccine since 1986? You can't find one case, not one, anywhere in the US that the cause of death was "adverse reaction to a vaccine". So, do you believe death doesn't happen as a result of a vaccine?

 

[AvengerRam]

Then tell us. Why has no person officially died from a vaccine since 1986? You can't find one case, not one, anywhere in the US that the cause of death was "adverse reaction to a vaccine". So, do you believe death doesn't happen as a result of a vaccine?

I don’t know where you are getting your information. There are numerous reports of deaths associated with vaccines. A conclusive causal connection is sometimes not established, as other factors may be present.

Again, you seem to believe in cover ups and conspiracies. That is your prerogative.

 

[Raptorman]

I don’t know where you are getting your information. There are numerous reports of deaths associated with vaccines. A conclusive causal connection is sometimes not established, as other factors may be present.

Again, you seem to believe in cover ups and conspiracies. That is your prerogative.

Sorry, you will not find one death that says on the death certificate that they died from a vaccine. Oh, you will have people who said someone died from a vaccine. But do this. Go to the CDC webpage and the vaccine court page and show me one person that is listed as dying from a vaccine. I'll even help you by linking the page. It's not there. Believe me, I've been looking for 15 years. Not one death attributed to a vaccine since the drug companies gained immunity from the adverse effects of vaccines. And the best part, they don't pay for the payout from "vaccine court". We do. $1 of the cost of each vaccine goes into a fund to pay out people who have had adverse effects. Drug companies have total immunity when it comes to vaccines.

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request

wonder.cdc.gov

 

[AvengerRam]

Sorry, you will not find one death that says on the death certificate that they died from a vaccine. Oh, you will have people who said someone died from a vaccine. But do this. Go to the CDC webpage and the vaccine court page and show me one person that is listed as dying from a vaccine. I'll even help you by linking the page. It's not there. Believe me, I've been looking for 15 years. Not one death attributed to a vaccine since the drug companies gained immunity from the adverse effects of vaccines. And the best part, they don't pay for the payout from "vaccine court". We do. $1 of the cost of each vaccine goes into a fund to pay out people who have had adverse effects. Drug companies have total immunity when it comes to vaccines.

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request

wonder.cdc.gov

That site specifically acknowledges that it gathers unverified reports, so its lack of confirmation of vaccine related deaths should be of no surprise.

What, exactly, is your point? That vaccines should not be trusted and should be avoided?

If so, I disagree.

 

[Angry Ram]

This thread has gotten..

 

[AvengerRam]

This thread has gotten..

For the record, I have no intention of persuading anyone to do anything. I’m simply sharing my experience.

 

[Angry Ram]

For the record, I have no intention of persuading anyone to do anything. I’m simply sharing my experience.

Oh I know. Threads like these attract...everyone.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Guys, this isn't a Twitter, Youtube, Reddit or Facebook comments section. This is a sports board OFF TOPIC forum that has well known rules in place that separate this place from those places.

Please act accordingly. If you can't help yourself, take it to PM's and have at it all day with no moderation or use the ignore function...or if you think someone is full of shit just chuckle and scroll on.

There are a million other places to freely flex your internet muscle on topics like this. Thanks.

 

[Mackeyser]

Won't matter. It's not from the vaccine. No one has died from a vaccine in the US since 1985. I don't think they can even put it on a death certificate as a cause of death.

I know for a fact that's not true.

My daughter died of a reaction to the pneumonia vaccine that predates Pneumovax. She was two months old. She was our only child to not breast feed (she wouldn't latch on, which sometimes happens) and the baby formulas in 1996 did not have antibodies (or whatever it is) like they do now to bolster the infant's immune system. My granddaughter right now is an infant on formula and it's way different.

Anyway, based on the details which aren't important here, we know how fast it happened and let's just say that she would have died slower from Ebola. From first onset of any symptom to death was LESS than 2 hours. She was not sick at all and came through her two month checkup just fine (which they do a checkup at 2 months prior to giving the vaccinations).

I also know that an EXTENSIVE investigation was done as she died in Los Angeles County and they have a special investigative unit comprised of forensic pathologists, toxicologists, other specialists and investigators who determine the cause of death for any child under two without a clear cause.

When the Chief Coroner of LA County called me, I know EXACTLY where I was and what he said. "It's the worst case of infant pneumonia I've ever seen in my over 30 years of practice. Honestly, we don't understand"

I'm pretty sure they just put Acute Interstitial Pneumonia on the death certificate and especially at the time, I wasn't much in the mood to debate. I'm pretty sure that they must put the direct cause and for my daughter, it was pneumonia. But the REASON she had the pneumonia that was so terribly virulent was that she'd reacted very badly to the pneumonia vaccine. So yes, she died as a result of a vaccine, but no, you won't find that on the death certificate (for a number of reasons, actually)

Was an anti-vaxxer for a spell, but I'm over that. It didn't help when I'd tell my story and even as I was being pro-vaccine, someone asshole would literally say (and I've had this said to my face, so that's not special. How I'm not in jail may be, but...) "well, that's just the cost for society to be safe." Let's just say I dunno how I contained my rage, but it still simmers even as I give this account.

Anyway, a relatively few people die as a result of vaccines every year, but they do.

I just wish the medical system would do better at acknowledging and supporting those who have been negatively affected even as it's a rare and unfortunate occurrence. I think so much of the conspiracy crap would be moot if they didn't act like something which rarely does harm does no harm at all...which is untrue. And with how rare it is, it'd be less effort to just be humane, but that's just me, I guess.

 

[Mackeyser]

Got my 1st Pfizer on Mar. 22nd and get my next one on Apr 12th.

Like others here, had wicked bad fatigue with the first shot, but I have other health issues which contribute to that as well, so it just added on.

Feel no more effects and expect the next shot to be relatively easy.

Looking forward to everyone in the house getting vaccinated so that we can ease up a bit on the "entry protocols" we have in place which are pretty onerous for those who work.

 

[Raptorman]

I know for a fact that's not true.

My daughter died of a reaction to the pneumonia vaccine that predates Pneumovax. She was two months old. She was our only child to not breast feed (she wouldn't latch on, which sometimes happens) and the baby formulas in 1996 did not have antibodies (or whatever it is) like they do now to bolster the infant's immune system. My granddaughter right now is an infant on formula and it's way different.

Anyway, based on the details which aren't important here, we know how fast it happened and let's just say that she would have died slower from Ebola. From first onset of any symptom to death was LESS than 2 hours. She was not sick at all and came through her two month checkup just fine (which they do a checkup at 2 months prior to giving the vaccinations).

I also know that an EXTENSIVE investigation was done as she died in Los Angeles County and they have a special investigative unit comprised of forensic pathologists, toxicologists, other specialists and investigators who determine the cause of death for any child under two without a clear cause.

When the Chief Coroner of LA County called me, I know EXACTLY where I was and what he said. "It's the worst case of infant pneumonia I've ever seen in my over 30 years of practice. Honestly, we don't understand"

I'm pretty sure they just put Acute Interstitial Pneumonia on the death certificate and especially at the time, I wasn't much in the mood to debate. I'm pretty sure that they must put the direct cause and for my daughter, it was pneumonia. But the REASON she had the pneumonia that was so terribly virulent was that she'd reacted very badly to the pneumonia vaccine. So yes, she died as a result of a vaccine, but no, you won't find that on the death certificate (for a number of reasons, actually)

Was an anti-vaxxer for a spell, but I'm over that. It didn't help when I'd tell my story and even as I was being pro-vaccine, someone asshole would literally say (and I've had this said to my face, so that's not special. How I'm not in jail may be, but...) "well, that's just the cost for society to be safe." Let's just say I dunno how I contained my rage, but it still simmers even as I give this account.

Anyway, a relatively few people die as a result of vaccines every year, but they do.

I just wish the medical system would do better at acknowledging and supporting those who have been negatively affected even as it's a rare and unfortunate occurrence. I think so much of the conspiracy crap would be moot if they didn't act like something which rarely does harm does no harm at all...which is untrue. And with how rare it is, it'd be less effort to just be humane, but that's just me, I guess.

First, let me say I am truly sorry for your loss. As a parent, I can't imagine. And I believe you. But to the CDC she did not die from a vaccine.

Not to be crass, her death certificate says that she died of pneumonia. Right? Not the vaccine. Pneumonia. So officially, she died of a disease. Not a vaccine. And you said it in your doctor's quote. Where your daughter got it doesn't matter to the doctor who signed the death certificate. So for the CDC, her death is not tied to the vaccine. Period. You know, your doctor surely knows, but if you ever brought it to the CDC they would deny the vaccine had anything to do with it.

"It's the worst case of infant pneumonia I've ever seen in my over 30 years of practice. Honestly, we don't understand"

Trust me, they understand.

And people don't get wrong here. Vaccines are very important. I've had plenty in my life. But why do kids these days need 56 before they are 16? And what's the first one they give them on the day they are born? Hep B. Look up how you get Hep B and tell me how a baby could possibly get it. And yeah, they can get it from their mother, but most pregnant women know if they have Hep B.

 

[Raptorman]

That site specifically acknowledges that it gathers unverified reports, so its lack of confirmation of vaccine related deaths should be of no surprise.

What, exactly, is your point? That vaccines should not be trusted and should be avoided?

If so, I disagree.

You can't show me one verified death in the US from a vaccine in which the cause of death on the Death certificate mentions the death was from adverse results of a vaccine. Look up everyone who sued for "death from a vaccine" and the end result is the same. The vaccine wasn't the cause. And one more way you can tell. If there was one, the anti-vaxers would be all over it.

Should they be avoided? No. Should they tell the truth? Yes. They are not. People die from vaccines all the time. But they don't link the deaths to the vaccines. Look at that list carefully and see how many people died within 24-48 hours after getting a vaccine. Perfectly healthy people who up and die the day after a vaccine. But they aren't connected. If I hit you in the head with a bat and you die 2 days later of a brain aneurism do you think the two events might be connected? I'm sure the police will.

But if you let out the possibility of death is greater than what they say, people will start to question the viability of vaccines. Why do you think they gave drug companies immunity?

 

[Raptorman]

BTW, to put this into some perspective. The CDC and Doctors use the numbers "1 in a million people die from vaccines". But did you know that in the US alone they give out 290 million vaccines each year? So, if that number is correct, 290 people die from vaccines each year. The number of people who die from rifles, all rifles, each year is around 290. And yet people are outraged by one, but not the other. Just a thought.

 

[AvengerRam]

Why do you think they gave drug companies immunity?

Because full unfettered exposure to lawsuits by any person who, after voluntarily taking a vaccine, claimed that they suffered an adverse side effect, would create a significant financial disincentive against developing and offering immunizations. The societal benefits of vaccines is deemed sufficient to warrant this protection.

You can disagree if you wish, or argue that there should be more exceptions to hold pharmaceutical companies accountable if they don’t fully disclose known risks.

None of that changes the fact that, for the vast majority of people, vaccines make sense.

 

[Mackeyser]

Coupla things.

@Raptorman I think we're saying the same thing. Just because the immediate cause of death doesn't say "vaccine" doesn't mean it wasn't the cause.

In the case of death certificates, the wording is confusing. The CAUSE of my daughter's death was the vaccine. The MECHANISM was pneumonia. I say it this way because without the vaccine, no pneumonia, but the vaccine didn't directly kill her like a toxin would

Which, as an aside, I'm CERTAIN the Coroner's office was focused on because the pathology was so extreme that they had to be thinking toxins or poisons of some kind. I wondered that myself... did we get something tainted? But she got her 2 month exam on Friday and passed on Saturday. And we KNOW she was asymptomatic during the check up.

@AvengerRam When the vaccine industry went to the Federal Gov't in 1995 and lobbied to either be permanently held harmless or they'd take their manufacturing overseas, were I President, this is what I do.

1) I IMMEDIATELY bar the export of any equipment that is used for making vaccines pending review by the FDA and the CDC.

2) I use eminent domain to seize the means of producing vaccines and have all vaccines produced under the Dept HHS, NIH and CDC banners. Ronald Reagan fired the ATC and this would have been a MUCH better instance for the gov't to step in to ensure the security of the US population in the event of a pandemic.

3) I give the companies two options: a) make vaccines for the US under contract or b) the US Gov't seizes all IP, cuts them a check and finds another lab to make it. The companies were threatening to move their production overseas which would have created a disaster in waiting once the next pandemic came around (again, this was in 1995). I blame the President at the time. Won't say more than that.

4) Engage in tort reform along with significant transparency to not only encourage trust in the system, but also find balance between no recourse and tobacco level damages.

Everything healthcare related CAN be seen as voluntary.

That medicine you take to stay alive? Voluntary. You technically don't have to take it. You could die, sure, but that's a choice.

Oh, that Epipen? Another choice. I guess if a bee or peanut wants you dead, you can choose to buy one and have it on you at all times or not. Oh well if you can't afford it...

So yeah, personally, I don't find that argument compelling...in the slightest. I don't think wanting to be alive is much of a choice, short of end of life assisted suicide questions.

When it comes to vaccines, I think they should be considered like any other medicine.

But, you may say, look how many medicines end up in massive class action lawsuits!

Yes... exactly. And why is that? Could it be that the FDA is compromised by yet another regulatory revolving door so that the people doing enforcement are the same people who have and will work in that industry again? That silly shit would be like mobsters taking stints as the Sheriff... actually, it's EXACTLY like that.

I would posit that the answer isn't blanket immunity, but creating a blanket requirement for enforcement across ALL regulatory/enforcement agencies that doesn't allow entry/re-entry to the industry regulated. This includes properly funding regulatory/enforcement agencies.

If regulatory/enforcement agencies are doing their job, better product gets to market with legit testing and real oversight and we see fewer and fewer of these meds which get effectively pumped and dumped where the hope is that sales outperform the liability.

It's a stupid, evil and crass model that obviates putting efforts into good science, good medicine and good patient outcomes.

TL;dr I don't think a broken tort system is reason enough to simply let yet another industry that's shown itself incapable of self-governance have blanket immunity.

 

[AvengerRam]

I’ve said all I care to on the issue of liability/immunity.

I certainly don’t agree that a government takeover of the industry would be beneficial.

Getting back on topic, I’m looking forward to my second shot, and will report afterwards on any side effects I experience.

 

[RamFan503]

I figure I'll be the statistic so if I suddenly disappear you fuckers can crack jokes about it and I wouldn't have it any other way. Which I would deserve since I'm convinced this shit was overplayed to control folks.

Well it was nice knowing you.

 

[nighttrain]

get my second shot on Thursday,
train