Draft an OT with our top pick

[SierraRam]

I'm been on the online Wagon for 5 years now, but, how often does a freak like Clowney come along?

We have one - Robert Quinn. And without the circus entourage

 

[iced]

I think with the Britt pickup, Austin, Bailey, Cook, Givens, Pettis & Quick adding Watkins would be a luxury at #2 - we went above and beyond to get Austin last year, I can't see us going WR with our first pick this year...

Britt signing doesn't mean anything. His contract is a prove it one and its set up for the Rams - they can cut him during training camp with only a $150k of his money guaranteed.

 

[Mojo Ram]

And it's not as if Bradford has been pummeled either - one big reason why I laugh at this extremist view. It gives the perception that bradford isn't currently protected or is one of the most sacked Qb's - which is so far from the truth.

You got me thinking.
Sacks are one thing, taking hits is just as bad on a QB's body.

Our OLine has allowed the following amount of regular season QB hits and sacks:
2013
63 hits (22nd) 34 sacks (24th)

2012
67 hits (14th) 33 sacks (19th)

2011
93 hits (3rd) 49 sacks (2nd)

2010
61 hits (14th) 30 sacks (20th)

*The higher the ranking the worse the protection

It wasn't Derek Carr-type protection but it needs to get better because Sam is a pocket passer, not one of these mobile guys that can create when the protection breaks down.

 

[Alan]

iced forgetting a key fact:
And it's not as if Bradford has been pummeled either - one big reason why I laugh at this extremist view. It gives the perception that bradford isn't currently protected or is one of the most sacked Qb's - which is so far from the truth.

Why wasn't he pummeled as much as he could have been? Did the fact that we had to tone down our offense, eliminate half the plays in our playbook and keep RBs and TEs in to help block on every pass play have anything to do with that?

 

[iced]

You got me thinking.
Sacks are one thing, taking hits is just as bad on a QB's body.

Our OLine has allowed the following amount of regular season QB hits and sacks:
2013
63 hits (22nd) 34 sacks (24th)

2012
67 hits (14th) 33 sacks (19th)

2011
93 hits (3rd) 49 sacks (2nd)

2010
61 hits (14th) 30 sacks (20th)

*The higher the ranking the worse the protection

It wasn't Derek Carr-type protection but it needs to get better because Sam is a pocket passer, not one of these mobile guys that can create when the protection breaks down.

I wouldn't be using the 2011 and 2010 numbers considering only 9 players remain on the roster from that "era", not to mention the mcdaniel debacle. And you might want to revisit those numbers - 34 sacks (24th) is misleading.. they gave up 8th fewest (or were 8th best at protecting), not 24th

 

[iced]

Why wasn't he pummeled as much as he could have been? Did the fact that we had to tone down our offense, eliminate half the plays in our playbook and keep RBs and TEs in to help block on every pass play have anything to do with that?

You mean get liabilities in Pass Pro out of the equation, most notably Jared Cook and Daryl Richardson? Not to mention an actual Running back who doesn't run directly into the backs of linemen and can actually pick up a blitz

The weakness on the o-line was one guard position, that's it. The Rams kept sammy upright - and I remember seeing the numbers i believe from Aenas 1. I remember him posting the Rams were 12th or so in terms of hurries, hits, and sacks (over 2 or 3 seasons). Bit better than average, but definitely not this "sam always on gonna be on his back" exaggeration.

And how much do receivers factor into this? Guys who can't get open, miss sight adjustments, run wrong routes, etc. anything that requires him to hold the ball

 

[BigRamFan]

Why wasn't he pummeled as much as he could have been? Did the fact that we had to tone down our offense, eliminate half the plays in our playbook and keep RBs and TEs in to help block on every pass play have anything to do with that?

My thoughts exactly Alan! How much was scheme rather than talent. It sure would be nice to get multiple receivers out into routes rather than keeping 2 TEs and a RB in to block.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I wouldn't be using the 2011 and 2010 numbers considering only 9 players remain on the roster from that "era", not to mention the mcdaniel debacle. And you might want to revisit those numbers - 34 sacks (24th) is misleading.. they gave up 8th fewest (or were 8th best at protecting), not 24th

We ARE talking about the same franchise QB however.
The numbers are from advanced stats. http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php?year=2013&season=reg

 

[iced]

We ARE talking about the same franchise QB however.
The numbers are from advanced stats. http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php?year=2013&season=reg

But we're also discussing the o-line going into next season - which has a lot of the same starters from 2012/2013... not 2011... Again, look at 2013 numbers.

2013 - 8th best in Sacks allowed (36 sacks) ,12th best in qb hits allowed
2012 - 13th in sacks allowed (33 sacks), 18th in qb hits.

Once again - They are better than average (2013 was technically top 10). Doesn't fit the "Sam is getting killed every play" mantra some people are insinuating

 

[iced]

My thoughts exactly Alan! How much was scheme rather than talent. It sure would be nice to get multiple receivers out into routes rather than keeping 2 TEs and a RB in to block.

if Jared Cook was on the field after week 4, he was not asked to block. Part of the problem in getting the running game going was his terrible blocking - hence the emergence of Harkey.... Plus Daryl Richardson lacking vision did not help the run game...and when you don't have a run game, that also affects the pass game. Pass rushers can just go after the qb

 

[Mojo Ram]

But we're also discussing the o-line going into next season - which has a lot of the same starters from 2012/2013... not 2011... Again, look at 2013 numbers.

2013 - 8th best in Sacks allowed (36 sacks) ,12th best in qb hits allowed
2012 - 13th in sacks allowed (33 sacks), 18th in qb hits.

Once again - They are better than average (2013 was technically top 10). Doesn't fit the "Sam is getting killed every play" mantra some people are insinuating

I agree it isn't awful like some are saying. Still, Sam has taken a beating in his four years. Do you deny that?
He's a pocket passer that needs to get the ball downfield more often. He needs high end protection IMO.

 

[BigRamFan]

@iced I get that no one is going to change your mind on this. Just for grins humor me with this? I don't think you are claiming we don't need help along the OL. Please lay out how you would address this need in this year's draft.

 

[iced]

I agree it isn't awful like some are saying. Still, Sam has taken a beating in his four years. Do you deny that?
He's a pocket passer that needs to get the ball downfield more often. He needs high end protection IMO.

He's taken a beating - but I'm not to make an argument for a player in the 2014 draft based on what happened in 2010/2011 when 85% of that team is gone.

@iced I get that no one is going to change your mind on this. Just for grins humor me with this? I don't think you are claiming we don't need help along the OL. Please lay out how you would address this need in this year's draft.

I'd take Watkins or Evans (Watkins at #2 or trade down and take Evans), grab a Guard with one of the first 3 or 4 picks (player availability and trade downs makes it hard to predict who and where) - someone who has actually played guard and is one of better ones at his position. No one that falls under the term Project either. this is a deep draft class - over 100 underclassmen. There will be a lot of players that will go in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of this draft that would go higher in other drafts.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Iced and i are on the same page. All we are saying is its laughable that some seem to think if we dont go Oline with 2 overall that doesnt mean we are neglecting the o line or watkins will be useless because sam will always on his back.

 

[BigRamFan]

He's taken a beating - but I'm not to make an argument for a player in the 2014 draft based on what happened in 2010/2011 when 85% of that team is gone.



I'd take Watkins or Evans (Watkins at #2 or trade down and take Evans), grab a Guard with one of the first 3 or 4 picks (player availability and trade downs makes it hard to predict who and where) - someone who has actually played guard and is one of better ones at his position. No one that falls under the term Project either. this is a deep draft class - over 100 underclassmen. There will be a lot of players that will go in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of this draft that would go higher in other drafts.

So who are you rolling out at LT to start the season if J. Long is unable to go?

 

[Alan]

iced with this:
You mean get liabilities in Pass Pro out of the equation, most notably Jared Cook and Daryl Richardson? Not to mention an actual Running back who doesn't run directly into the backs of linemen and can actually pick up a blitz

The weakness on the o-line was one guard position, that's it. The Rams kept sammy upright - and I remember seeing the numbers i believe from Aenas 1. I remember him posting the Rams were 12th or so in terms of hurries, hits, and sacks (over 2 or 3 seasons). Bit better than average, but definitely not this "sam always on gonna be on his back" exaggeration.

And how much do receivers factor into this? Guys who can't get open, miss sight adjustments, run wrong routes, etc. anything that requires him to hold the ball

They played a minor part in the fiasco that's for sure. But their failures occurred while participating in the reduced offensive scheme. They weren't the cause. Had they not sucked so badly in pass pro those stats that Mojo posted would have represented the actual abilities of our O-line even less than they do now.

"The weakness on the o-line was one guard position, that's it." is a remarkable thing to say and a result of a faulty memory IMO. The O-line shuffling that occurred during the season has been documented by Bonifay several times so you can do a search on it if you need a memory jog.

Pretty much none IMO. It did factor in to the futility of our passing game though.

Every journey into the past is complicated by delusions, false memories, false namings of real events.
Adrienne Rich

 

[iced]

They played a minor part in the fiasco that's for sure. But their failures occurred while participating in the reduced offensive scheme. They weren't the cause. Had they not sucked so badly in pass pro those stats that Mojo posted would have represented the actual abilities of our O-line even less than they do now.

Minor part? Really? You don't think Blocking,regardless of Pass or Run, plays any part in this? Wow. If Jared Cook was just a "minor part" he wouldn't have disappeared from the offense for the next 4 weeks after the scheme change - oh and that's not on Kellen Clemens, that's him not being on the field.

"The weakness on the o-line was one guard position, that's it." is a remarkable thing to say and a result of a faulty memory IMO. The O-line shuffling that occurred during the season has been documented by Bonifay several times so you can do a search on it if you need a memory jog.

My friend I think it is you that needs the memory. The rotation at LG which included Brandon Washington was dreadful as was Harvey Dahl at RG. Chris williams at Guard was also ugly as all hell, and even worse when he had to play tackle. Jake Long, Scott Wells, Barksdale, and Saffold were all bright spots.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/3/

13. St Louis Rams (26th)PB: 17th, RB: 9th, PEN: 26th

Stud: Many, ourselves included, wondered if Jake Long (+25.8) was done. He’d enjoyed a great start to his career in Miami but two so-so years left a lot to be desired. Well, this was the year he came back with a bang, and it’s a horrible shame his season ended with an ACL and MCL tear.

Dud: He may be a former first-rounder but Chris Williams (-21.8) is just a liability as a lineman. Far too much pressure, not enough good run blocking, and he’s the team’s weak link on offense.

Analysis: A step forward but perhaps not as much as they would have like to see. They nailed it with the pickup of Long and got surprisingly good play from Joe Barksdale, Shelley Smith and Rodger Saffold at guard. That would suggest a higher finish, but the interior trio of Williams, Harvey Dahl and Scott Wells really didn’t play up to the level that was needed of them.

Btw Scott Wells was the best pass blocking center too.

But I digress - the weakness was on the interior. Long and Barksdale both graded out highly.

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/4912/examining-barksdales-future-at-right-tackle

The 6-foot-5, 326-pound Barksdale seemed to fit the mold of what the Rams are looking for at tackle. Although he's not the most athletic or strongest tackle you'll find, Barksdale competed well and was mostly a net positive in 2013. For what it's worth, Pro Football Focus gave Barksdale an overall grade of 12.2 for the season, with an 11.9 in pass protection. Barksdale earned a negative grade just three times.

 

[iced]

So who are you rolling out at LT to start the season if J. Long is unable to go?

Saffold if I had to - but that's a big if. The Media and fans are making more out of Jake Long returning than anyone else. The Rams have said they expect him back at the beginning of the season - even some ESPN Medical Expert (someone posted it on here awhile ago) said the Rams expectations were realistic (Jake Long returning by week 1).

Are you advocating spending a #2 overall pick basically as a insurance policy?

Because as long as Jake Long is playing well - he's gonna be here. Even Scott Wells can't stay on the field, but he's still on the roster. Only when performance does not equal pay (Finnegan) is when they have been canning players.

 

[BigRamFan]

Saffold if I had to - but that's a big if. The Media and fans are making more out of Jake Long returning than anyone else. The Rams have said they expect him back at the beginning of the season - even some ESPN Medical Expert (someone posted it on here awhile ago) said the Rams expectations were realistic (Jake Long returning by week 1).

Are you advocating spending a #2 overall pick basically as a insurance policy?

Because as long as Jake Long is playing well - he's gonna be here. Even Scott Wells can't stay on the field, but he's still on the roster. Only when performance does not equal pay (Finnegan) is when they have been canning players.

Not an insurance policy alone, but one that fills a HUGE need at OG. By selecting Matthews or Robinson with our first pick I get some insurance in case Jake doesn't come back from major surgery in 11 months, in game shape and ready to compete at a high level. If he does come back as good as new, I've now plugged a massive hole at OG with I pick I hope not to have in the foreseeable future (I don't expect we'll be drafting in the top 20 again any time soon).

 

[rhinobean]

I'd like to know who's coming out next year that's the elite LT that the Rams can pick up? Is that person the man that Matthews/Robinson is? Will we have to trade up for him? I don't follow college ball much outside the SEC. My hope is the Rams draft for the next 10-20 years will be last part of each round! Can we get that LT then?