Double-edged sword

[-X-]

So I watched the game again (ffw, rew, ffw, rew) and it occurred to me that there were just a few (5 or 6) plays that really attributed to the outcome of the game yesterday. Some mistakes, some penalties, and a few lapses in execution. Hell, the first two throws of the game were just a little off, but the plays were there for the taking. So all of the lamenting about the script to start the game is a little off-base to me. Had execution been on point, there would be no issues. If the false-starts didn't put us in bad down-n-go situations, then the game plan wouldn't have had to be adjusted. If pass-blocking was on point, then some of those throws wouldn't have had to be rushed. And if the turnovers that resulted in Eagles' points didn't take place, then the game plan wouldn't have had to be abandoned.

What's my point? Going into the third quarter, there was a ton of calls for Fisher's head yesterday. The team isn't prepared, they're sloppy, undisciplined, can't compete, and that's all on him. By the end of the game that kinda talk dissipated, but that's beside the point. Here's my question. What can he do? Does anyone honestly believe that they don't coach execution, preparedness and discipline all year long? And the follow-up question ... what's his recourse when things break down during the game? Replace all of the offenders? Well, okay then. Say he does that. Bench Kendricks, bench Armstrong, bench Daniels, bench Jake Long, Bench Cook (for his drop), Bench Wells, and play all of their substitutes. Now you have a weaker team.

Should he play with a weaker team to satisfy the masses? And what if he does that and they lose because of it?

Double-edged sword.

It may be cliche', but really all they can do is work on the problems. You can bench a repeat offender, like he said he was gonna do, but at some point the players have to hold themselves (and each other) accountable. Because none of them are ignorant to what constitutes a penalty. And all of them are being taught/coached to avoid them. I just don't see how it can ALL fall on Fisher when the game-plan going in is to execute and play smart football after weeks of preparation to do just that.

 

[Young Ram]

I think we keep forgetting that this is the youngest team in the league. They are bound to make mistakes. It's not an excuse, it's reality.

What we all see though is that this team has talent. Something we wouldn't say in the past. We see the potential. They just have to put it all together and I think they are pretty damn close.

 

[HometownBoy]

I love you X, but I gotta disagree with you on Fisher front. Do I think he doesn't prep his team? No, that's stupid, I wouldn't believe any coach is just sitting back and chilling while his guys are failing, but I believe the criticisms are still fair because whatever he's doing it ISN'T working and hasn't worked in any of the time he's been here. This team is really talented and could be a lot better than they are, but they're constantly coming out slow, sloppy and just generally sluggish. There's been too many games where the silver lining has been WELL WE WOULDA WON IF WE JUST SHOWED UP IN THE FIRST HALF, at what point does the team failing to show up in the first half stop being some outlier and start becoming a problem that needs to be addressed? How many times can we blame players, OCs and others until you realize the one constant. What can he do? His job, X. His job is to make sure this team is prepared come Sunday, saying what can he do is hardly an excuse for one of the main components of his job, if he can't have this team prepared and his only thing he can say is WHAT CAN YA DO, IT HAPPENS then things are amiss. I'm not all for the benching of players(Except Wells, I'll argue with you that we'd be weaker without him when he's slowed by injury and generally playing terrible.)but I feel the Fisher questions are still legitimate. Losing is losing, no matter what type of way we do it. It can't always be the players fault when shit starts to hit the fan.

I still question Fisher, I question whether he can actually adapt to the new NFL or if he, like Martz, is a relic of the past who's great mind has been evolved past. I can say it falls on the players too, but saying it's all on the players and execution when since Fisher has taken over we can all list multiple games where our team failed to show up and that was the dagger that killed them is absolving him of guilt IMO.

 

[DaveFan'51]

ALERT! OFF-TOPIC! For those interested in seeing it, the Game will replay on NFL Rewind @ NFLN in 27 minutes!!

 

[V3]

Aren't a lot of NFL games the result of like 5 or 6 bad plays? Even some of the more lopsided looking games can come down to failing to execute on a handful of plays. It seems like I've been hearing, "just take away 5 or 6 plays and the Rams win that game" since Martz. I don't know.

As for Fisher, I get the perception from the media that Fisher doesn't work his players very hard. That applies to training camp as well as regular practices. I'm not there so I can't really say one way or another but it does seem that what I hear from people that do go like JT, Burwell, Wagoner, et al dovetails with what I see on the field. Heck, Fisher said in the preseason he'd call off TC early if they didn't commit so many penalties in a preseason game. When I hear about teams like Seattle that spend tons of time working on tackling and practicing too hard(they even got cited for it) and it shows in games, it makes me wonder.

Who knows? I just get tired of seeing the same crap every week and then see other teams that don't keep making the same mistakes every week.

 

[Ram_Fan]

Has anyone uploaded the game? .

 

[NJRamsFan]

ALERT! OFF-TOPIC! For those interested in seeing it, the Game will replay on NFL Rewind @ NFLN in 27 minutes!!

Thanks! have it set to record

 

[-X-]

I love you X, but I gotta disagree with you on Fisher front. Do I think he doesn't prep his team? No, that's stupid, I wouldn't believe any coach is just sitting back andst chilling while his guys are failing, but I believe the criticisms are still fair because whatever he's doing it ISN'T working and hasn't worked in any of the time he's been here. This team is really talented and could be a lot better than they are, but they're constantly coming out slow, sloppy and just generally sluggish. There's been too many games where the silver lining has been WELL WE WOULDA WON IF WE JUST SHOWED UP IN THE FIRST HALF, at what point does the team failing to show up in the first half stop being some outlier and start becoming a problem that needs to be addressed? How many times can we blame players, OCs and others until you realize the one constant. What can he do? His job, X. His job is to make sure this team is prepared come Sunday, saying what can he do is hardly an excuse for one of the main components of his job, if he can't have this team prepared and his only thing he can say is WHAT CAN YA DO, IT HAPPENS then things are amiss. I'm not all for the benching of players(Except Wells, I'll argue with you that we'd be weaker without him when he's slowed by injury and generally playing terrible.)but I feel the Fisher questions are still legitimate. Losing is losing, no matter what type of way we do it. It can't always be the players fault when crap starts to hit the fan.

I still question Fisher, I question whether he can actually adapt to the new NFL or if he, like Martz, is a relic of the past who's great mind has been evolved past. I can say it falls on the players too, but saying it's all on the players and execution when since Fisher has taken over we can all list multiple games where our team failed to show up and that was the dagger that killed them is absolving him of guilt IMO.

I appreciate your opinion, dude. But I don't know of any instances where they came out slow and sluggish. Definitely not yesterday, and certainly not against Dallas. I think this is yet another example of instability and youth combining to give us execution failures. We keep changing defensive coordinators, keep having to play young guys, and now have our first and second string QBs out. Despite all that, they're never out of the game (sans a few examples over the past 2 years). I'm about 100% certain that he has his team prepared going into every single game. That's NEVER been a knock Fisher has had on him (lack of preparedness).

I think what he's doing is all he can do at this point. Wouldn't matter who the coach is if the players are the ones making mistakes they know they shouldn't be making. I guess the only recourse is to start benching players for repeat offenses and rolling with those who can play smarter. But that's the point of this thread. If he does that, and the team is weaker as a result, then the losses will STILL be on Fisher.

 

[DaveFan'51]

So I watched the game again (ffw, rew, ffw, rew) and it occurred to me that there were just a few (5 or 6) plays that really attributed to the outcome of the game yesterday. Some mistakes, some penalties, and a few lapses in execution. Hell, the first two throws of the game were just a little off, but the plays were there for the taking. So all of the lamenting about the script to start the game is a little off-base to me. Had execution been on point, there would be no issues. If the false-starts didn't put us in bad down-n-go situations, then the game plan wouldn't have had to be adjusted. If pass-blocking was on point, then some of those throws wouldn't have had to be rushed. And if the turnovers that resulted in Eagles' points didn't take place, then the game plan wouldn't have had to be abandoned.

What's my point? Going into the third quarter, there was a ton of calls for Fisher's head yesterday. The team isn't prepared, they're sloppy, undisciplined, can't compete, and that's all on him. By the end of the game that kinda talk dissipated, but that's beside the point. Here's my question. What can he do? Does anyone honestly believe that they don't coach execution, preparedness and discipline all year long? And the follow-up question ... what's his recourse when things break down during the game? Replace all of the offenders? Well, okay then. Say he does that. Bench Kendricks, bench Armstrong, bench Daniels, bench Jake Long, Bench Cook (for his drop), Bench Wells, and play all of their substitutes. Now you have a weaker team.

Should he play with a weaker team to satisfy the masses? And what if he does that and they lose because of it?

Double-edged sword.

It may be cliche', but really all they can do is work on the problems. You can bench a repeat offender, like he said he was gonna do, but at some point the players have to hold themselves (and each other) accountable. Because none of them are ignorant to what constitutes a penalty. And all of them are being taught/coached to avoid them. I just don't see how it can ALL fall on Fisher when the game-plan going in is to execute and play smart football after weeks of preparation to do just that.

Just maybe a Team meeting with-out coaches might help!

 

[HometownBoy]

I appreciate your opinion, dude. But I don't know of any instances where they came out slow and sluggish. Definitely not yesterday, and certainly not against Dallas. I think this is yet another example of instability and youth combining to give us execution failures. We keep changing defensive coordinators, keep having to play young guys, and now have our first and second string QBs out. Despite all that, they're never out of the game (sans a few examples over the past 2 years). I'm about 100% certain that he has his team prepared going into every single game. That's NEVER been a knock Fisher has had on him (lack of preparedness).

I think what he's doing is all he can do at this point. Wouldn't matter who the coach is if the players are the ones making mistakes they know they shouldn't be making. I guess the only recourse is to start benching players for repeat offenses and rolling with those who can play smarter. But that's the point of this thread. If he does that, and the team is weaker as a result, then the losses will STILL be on Fisher.

Thanks, I appreciate your opinion too and your optimism. I just don't know if I share it.

I feel like a sluggish start is what we saw yesterday, we got beat on both facets of the ball. If one or two things is off, I can chalk that up to youth, but when everybody is completely off and no side can differentiate itself the entire first half, I consider that sluggish and I feel like we've had more of those than warranted.

I'm definitely still rooting for Fisher to succeed and I hope that nobody is actively rooting for his failure, but I just have my doubts.

 

[ChrisW]

and now have our first and second string QBs out

This is a moot point. Davis is playing like a number one, and there is nothing at the QB position that's holding us back.

Penalties, and consistency on defense are our problems at the moment. This is half on the coaching staff and half on the players. It's on the coaches because we should have year after year of leading the league in penalties. Fisher is just lazy on this part of the game. IMO, Fisher doesn't care about penalties, or doesn't feel it's a big enough problem to really clean it up.

 

[Selassie I]

You can't bench a player for making a mistake every time one occurs. Mistakes happen and that's part of the game.

I did hear Fish say he'd be sending a player to watch the game from the locker room if they commit a dead ball personal foul from now on though. That is a more severe approach than we've seen in the past. Committing THAT kind of foul is more than just a mistake though. It's obvious to me that Fish needs to implement a stronger stance on this recurring issue since it seems to be lingering like a SBD fart... so I'm hoping that the threat of this will be enough to make the needed improvement. I hope Fish follows through with his new stance. I believe he certainly will.

As for how to correct some of the other recurring mistakes we see the young team making. Well, I remember Fish making Jenks and Givens run stairs in a visiting stadium. That kind of thing is almost unheard of in today's NFL. Maybe that type of "punishment" needs to be doled out more often... especially for repeated mistakes. Jenks and Givens haven't had any problems with off field stuff since their embarrassing punishment was delivered. Fish and Company have been punishing players for stupid shit behind the scenes I'm sure,,, but I have to believe that the desired results have yet to be achieved. Maybe ratcheting up the embarrassment factor would be a more effective way to deal with repeat offenders.

Who knows? When I was still in Grade School teachers were allowed to give students a few licks with a paddle. It usually happened right outside the classroom door so that everyone couldn't see,,, but they could certainly hear it happen. Then the student receiving the spanks had to do the walk of shame right back into the classroom, and for his sake he better not have been crying on his return. I think back to those days and believe that students feared the embarrassment of the licks more than the licks themselves.

We may not be able to spank players in today's world, but I have to believe that there must be a more embarrassing way to discipline a repeat offender than what the Rams have been using.

Benching players during the game may in fact be necessary in rare situations, but not for the most part. Fish needs to ramp up the the discipline embarrassment penalty though I'm afraid.

 

[Irish]

Daniels and Ray Ray should have absolutely been benched, and Bailey should have been running the Pettis Routes late in the game. I don't know how anyone can dispute that.

 

[JIMERAMS]

i agree with X here. if those two passes in the first drive are thrown well we are on the board and rolling. that has nothing to do with being prepared its execution. it changes the game when you miss opportunities

 

[HometownBoy]

Daniels and Ray Ray should have absolutely been benched, and Bailey should have been running the Pettis Routes late in the game. I don't know how anyone can dispute that.

I can, Pettis' hands are usually rock solid, nobody has any reason to believe that he couldn't be counted on in those routes. Why would we feel the need to replace him, especially with somebody several weeks behind the team?

 

[rams56]

It is very frustrating. ...as a former coach (lol not nfl) it is very frustrating to watch sometimes. ...but this team is so young and talented and so very close....I am conflicted. On one hand.... they worked all off season preparing for the first game.... we get blown out.....we come off of a by week with a great week of preparation. ...we look terrible in the first half...... on the other hand we almost come back in same game.... of course there is a lot of room for improvement. ... but I think it's a confidence thing.....a not knowing how to win thing.....if we can just have a few things go our way...if Peters getting called on his 3 false starts in the game....us eliminating our false starts.... Long bending his knees more and quit playing so high....same with Brockers just to list a few....catch easy passes....but if for one whole game we can just put it all together. ..I think it will carry over....we are talented enough to string wins together. ...even if it is in the murders row part of our schedule. They just got to keep plugging away..... God I love this team.....even though it hurts some times....lol Go Rams....

 

[dieterbrock]

Daniels and Ray Ray should have absolutely been benched, and Bailey should have been running the Pettis Routes late in the game. I don't know how anyone can dispute that.

Pettis catch against Tampa is one reason why I want him out there in crunch time.

 

[Irish]

Pettis catch against Tampa is one reason why I want him out there in crunch time.

I can, Pettis' hands are usually rock solid, nobody has any reason to believe that he couldn't be counted on in those routes. Why would we feel the need to replace him, especially with somebody several weeks behind the team?

That's fine, but Bailey has the best hands on the team, and has since the middle of last season.

 

[HometownBoy]

That's fine, but Bailey has the best hands on the team, and has since the middle of last season.

That's great and all, but he's still several weeks behind and Pettis has been making clutch catches for the Rams since before Bailey was even in the league. No reason to replace him outside of hindsight.

 

[Afro Ram]

I'm about as pro Fisher as you can get, but at some point he has to start finding a way to win games.

I get that he has a super young team and that this rebuild is barely out of its infantcy (two years and four games?) But, he's getting paid to win. If a fan or spectator questions the product and its performance that falls on the head coach.

I will also go as far as saying that football fans are some of the most arrogant sports fans alive. We're all professional gm's with our fantasy football teams and John Madden video games.

It's not fair to blame one person, but it is his job to find a way to win and the excuses won't cut it much longer even if they're justified or not.

The time is now to find a way to win and not make excuses!