Cooper Kupp vs Josh Reynolds

[UKram]

At the same time, most understand that it's possible that a player with athleticism can be taught technical skill. But, the technical skill guy can't be taught athleticism.

but you cant teach that athletic guy ...desire . heart.. will to win ..Grob comes to mind along with a few other players in Rams recent History

 

[jrry32]

As a play caller one of McVays strengths is using formations to put his players in the best position to succeed. Using bunch, trips, and deuce formations he was able to put multiple people in the slot. Crowder and Reed played extensively in the slot, with Desean mixed in, and to a lesser extent Garcon. He moved his WRs around, but they had defined roles that fit the basketball team mantra Snead talked about all offseason. 75% of Crowder's targets came as a slot receiver, 76% of DeSean's targets came on the outside primarily as a flanker, and 87% of Garcon's targets came on the outside primarily as a split end.

Where the rams weapons differ is they don't have an established player best suited to play extensively as an X receiver or isolated to one side of the formation like Garcon and Jordan Reed. Can the coaches get Everett up to speed so he can do that as a rookie? Rookie TE transitions are tough, but he wont be asked to do alot of the really tough things like blocking NFL DEs as much as a typical TE would, so there is a chance. IMO you are not playing to Kupp's or Woods' strengths playing them extensively as an X receiver or isolating them to one side of the formation. They are both likely to be most successful playing flanker or in the slot. However, Tavon complicates things because his best position in this offense is probably flanker because he doesn't have the route running ability or acumen to play primarily as slot receiver. Tavon also doesn't have the strength or the ability to consistently get off press as an X receiver.

So the dilemma becomes the top 3 projected receivers (Woods, Tavon, Kupp) are best suited to play flanker/slot and we don't know if best fits at X and iso receiver (Everett, Reynolds, maybe Thomas) will be ready. Ideally one if not both of Reynolds and Everett can step up quickly. If that doesn't happen Woods will probably lead the WR group in snaps at X/iso with Kupp in the slot and Tavon at flanker. As Everett and Reynolds progress you can play Woods more at flanker and slot and use Tavon's skillset more efficiently like a Taylor Gabriel.

IMO, Woods was brought in to play the X. He's a polished player. He'll play the Garcon role. Reality is that Garcon wasn't the X WR before getting to Washington. Woods has the skill-set to play the Garcon role.

 

[shaunpinney]

He can flip a lost down into an easy win.

You mean to tell me that our Defence will be better rested this year???

 

[OnceARam]

I'm still waiting for last years WR crop to produce... :deadhorse:

 

[shaunpinney]

I'm still waiting for last years WR crop to produce... :deadhorse:

We had WRs last year?!?!

 

[kurtfaulk]

I'm still waiting for last years WR crop to produce... :deadhorse:

Well, cooper got injured in preseason so he started the season behind the 8 ball. Thomas was raw and didn't catch the ball well. Spruce injured all season. The offense was apparently difficult to learn. Boras was the oc. All these things worked against the rookies. Let's see what they can do this season if they make the team.

.

 

[ReddingRam]

Those things make a difference for every WR. Would it be better for me to use the 5'10" WR with a 4.57 40 and a 8'09" broad jump?



I've always chuckled at people acting as if a guy who is highly productive in the slot can't be highly productive outside. The Patriots had Aaron Hernandez take the slot role in 2011 and had Wes Welker often operate as their flanker. Welker still put up 1500+ yards.

If Pharoh Cooper proves to be a great slot WR, that's better for us. We're not going to be hurting because Cooper Kupp and Pharoh Cooper are both great slot WRs. If Kupp and Cooper both prove to be 1000+ yard slot WRs, they'll produce outside. If they can't, that's the fault of our offensive staff.

I don't see the problem here at all. This thread is mind boggling to me. I know it's early in this process, but seems to me we had a terrible problem with lack of decent WR's/pass catchers, a technically and fundamentally unsound offensive scheme and approach and a coaching staff that was just clueless how to get the best out of their guys.

Now we have a coaching staff with a proven track record, scheme and vision. By all accounts the WR room is now got not only good hands, attitude and promise, but also guys with a solid work ethic. now I know it's going to take some time to get everyone up to speed with the new scheme, young/rookie players adjusting, but how can we not be happy about this? As far as having too many "slot guys? Well I see 4 guys who can get deep and be your outside guys (Austin, Woods, Reynolds and Thomas) Solid "possession guys" if you will in (Kupp, Cooper and Spruce) And I am going to say, that I can see all three of these guys also being able to get past the intermediate range of the field by their route running alone. We are going to also add at least a trio of TE's into this mix (Higbee, Everett, and whoever wins the next spot) that can also go vertical down the seems. Now combing this .. guys who can get open ... no matter how they do it, are going to open up the offense and stretch a defense. There is enough talent AND speed here to achieve whatever McVay wants to in the passing game. the route running and hands got TONS better.We also have size in that other than TA and PC, all the rest are 6'-6'-3.

Now this is going to be a battle for sure. But iron sharpens iron and the best 5-6 will make the team. I really don't see the problem here, other than not taking Lamp in the draft? Really? I'm seeing the addition of technically sound route runners with great hands and motivation being added to a roster that was void of those things. Being utilized by a staff that has a clue how to use them properly and to their strengths. The competition is not only going to be fun to watch, but also the best thing for this offense and Jared Goff. We have weapons. Weapons all over the field. Again, I don't see a problem with this.

 

[RamsSince1969]

You mean to tell me that our Defence will be better rested this year???

Can you imagine them not being gassed/worn out in the 4th quarter and actually standing their ground when they gotta make a stand? We were in so many close games over the last 2 years and maybe even won a few all because the D went above and beyond the call of duty. If they get say 1/3 less time on the field due to O production, they will crush it in the crunch. The Rams will be the dark horse that nobody saw coming. Well, nobody but the gang here at ROD.

 

[jap]

Can you imagine them not being gassed/worn out in the 4th quarter and actually standing their ground when they gotta make a stand? We were in so many close games over the last 2 years and maybe even won a few all because the D went above and beyond the call of duty. If they get say 1/3 less time on the field due to O production, they will crush it in the crunch. The Rams will be the dark horse that nobody saw coming. Well, nobody but the gang here at ROD.

We have also lost games because our D was gassed from spending too much time on the field. This is why it is critical for the OL to mature as a solid pass blocking/run block unit so our our talented backfield guys, Jared & Todd, can do their thing. Mixing things up with the pass and run, having Todd milk the clock & consistently giving our D some much needed blows, giving Jared time to not only survey all his options but to execute his airborne strikes with extreme precision will eventually convert last season's pitiful offense into an unstoppable force.

 

[T-REX]

I'm drinking Mcvay brand this offseason

 

[DaveFan'51]

Cooper Kupp. Everyone around here is arguing, Oh his 40 time, oh Jerry Rice, Oh this, Oh that.

One thing I know Coach has said is "I love his above the neck approach"

If I'm not mistaken Coach McVay said, after Kupp left from his interview, " It was like we where just talking to another WR Coach" or words to that effect! Real Football Smarts!!

 

[Corbin]

They'll have very different roles in the NFL. Why was Kupp drafted first? He's more pro ready, an easier projection, and better at this point in time. Reynolds is a deep threat as it stands now. He's a long-strider who can win in the air. He has the change of direction skills to be a legitimate threat in the intermediate range as well. He'll need to continue to develop as a route runner. He has a thin frame, and that won't change. His big issues early on will be adapting to a much more complicated scheme, getting off the LOS against press coverage, and winning in the short passing game.

As it stands now, his releases are a bit predictable. He has the quick-twitch athleticism to really develop there. But with his thin frame and play strength issues, it'll be tough for him early on. He's competitive, though. He's a long-strider who doesn't have a lot of suddenness in the first 10 yards. It'll make it more difficult for him to separate underneath. That means he'll have to produce using his frame and ability to win at the catch-point. Reynolds has a lot of the same limitations that Alshon Jeffery had coming out. I want to make clear that Reynolds isn't Alshon, but his game is somewhat similar. If he's going to win underneath, he'll have to do it by using his body and catching it with a defender on him. However, he has the build-up speed to climb over the top of defenders and win 1-on-1 down the field. Alshon had better hands, a bigger body, and more strength/physicality. Reynolds changes directions better and has more upside as a route runner. Reynolds is probably more of a #2 WR if he develops the way I expect.

In regards to Kupp, I've spoken about him ad nauseam. He lacks that extra gear to separate vertically, but he has everything else. And he might still find a way to be a deep threat. There are a lot of guys who win vertically in the NFL without using pure speed. Kupp may be a #1 WR, a #2 WR, or a #3 WR, but I feel confident that he'll consistently produce.

I had Kupp as my #1 WR on Day 2. Reynolds was my #5 WR on Day 2 (#1 on Day 3).

 

[StealYoGurley]

IMO, Woods was brought in to play the X. He's a polished player. He'll play the Garcon role. Reality is that Garcon wasn't the X WR before getting to Washington. Woods has the skill-set to play the Garcon role.

A team can make it work with Garcon or Woods at X, but it is not their ideal position, especially in Woods' case IMO. Garcon is about 20 pounds heavier, faster, stronger and better in contested situations. I think Woods can play X and most likely will play there with the current construction of the Rams WR group, but IMO he his skill set fits the flanker or slot position more. If you look at X receivers from McVay's and LaFleur's coaching tree they are guys like Julio Jones, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, and Josh Gordon. When McVay and the Skins drafted Josh Doctson last year they compared him to AJ Green. Even with Garcon, DeSean, and Crowder on the roster they jumped at the chance to land the ideal X receiver even with many other pressing needs on the roster. The pending free agencies of DeSean and Garcon factored in, but their addition of Tyrelle Pryor this offseason also fits that ideal X receiver mold. The guys I mentioned aren't easy to find and you don't have to have one, but ideally you do. Reynolds is the closet thing on the roster to fitting that mold, in fact his measurables are very similar to Doctson. The faster Reynolds can get up to speed the better it will be for the offense as a whole by allowing guys to play in their ideal roles.

 

[Memphis Ram]

but you cant teach that athletic guy ...desire . heart.. will to win ..Grob comes to mind along with a few other players in Rams recent History

Can't be taught, but those can be developed from within in time. See Hall of Fame WR Chris Carter's story.

 

[Memphis Ram]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHOASJfY0U

 

[Faceplant]

At the same time, you can't teach intelligence, work ethic, or instincts.

That's how a 5'9" WR with a 4.65 40 and a 30 inch vertical can post 100+ catches per year while a 6'4" WR with a 4.28 40 and a 39.5 inch vertical only lasts a few years in the NFL.

At the end of the day, even if you teach the athlete technical skill, the technical skill guy might still outproduce him.

Speaking of which, didn't Steve Smith call Kupp the best WR in the draft?

 

[jrry32]

A team can make it work with Garcon or Woods at X, but it is not their ideal position, especially in Woods' case IMO. Garcon is about 20 pounds heavier, faster, stronger and better in contested situations.

Other than arguably contested catch situations, none of those things are what make Garcon an effective WR, though.

I think Woods can play X and most likely will play there with the current construction of the Rams WR group, but IMO he his skill set fits the flanker or slot position more.

I don't really see him fitting one more than any of the others.

If you look at X receivers from McVay's and LaFleur's coaching tree they are guys like Julio Jones, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, and Josh Gordon. When McVay and the Skins drafted Josh Doctson last year they compared him to AJ Green. Even with Garcon, DeSean, and Crowder on the roster they jumped at the chance to land the ideal X receiver even with many other pressing needs on the roster. The pending free agencies of DeSean and Garcon factored in, but their addition of Tyrelle Pryor this offseason also fits that ideal X receiver mold.

This sounds a bit like post hoc rationalization. If you look at the history of Jon Gruden, his #1 WRs ranged from Keenan McCardell to Keyshawn Johnson in Tampa Bay. In Oakland, he had Tim Brown (and then Tim Brown and Jerry Rice).

I don't see a mold in this scheme. They simply take what they have and work with it. Who wouldn't love an A.J. Green or Julio Jones? But I don't believe for a second that McVay would tell you his mold is more A.J. Green than Antonio Brown or more Josh Gordon than Isaac Bruce. It's about taking the pieces you have and crafting a scheme around that. I'm sure there are traits that are important, but I don't think there's a specific mold.

The guys I mentioned aren't easy to find and you don't have to have one, but ideally you do. Reynolds is the closet thing on the roster to fitting that mold, in fact his measurables are very similar to Doctson. The faster Reynolds can get up to speed the better it will be for the offense as a whole by allowing guys to play in their ideal roles.

I don't see it. I think Reynolds is more likely to play flanker this year. I see Woods as a fit at the X because of his polished route running skills, great blocking, and reliability as a target. McVay is going to recognize what he does well. He'll put him in a situation to succeed.

Can't be taught, but those can be developed from within in time. See Hall of Fame WR Chris Carter's story.

My issue with the stance you are taking is that you aren't really looking at both sides of the coin.

 

[ramfan46]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHOASJfY0U

He has outstanding concentration when tracking the ball through contact. That trait seems hard to teach and coach. Really like how he can catch the ball at different heights and uses his hands to snatch the ball when necessary. The catch vs Arkansas that was out of bounds.... Whoa! Reminded me of a one handed grab Ike made vs Cleveland on a MNF game in 03 that was blown dead and didn't count. Guarded using the p word, but I really like this guy's potential.

 

[Memphis Ram]

My issue with the stance you are taking is that you aren't really looking at both sides of the coin.

Gee. Best I can tell, I may be one of a few who is looking at both sides of the coin. I can see positives and negatives while some only seem to see positives.

 

[PARAM]

The offense was apparently difficult to learn.
.

Yes it was. Trying to learn what the offensive scheme was, was like trying to learn to paint underwater.