Cooper Kupp vs Josh Reynolds

[Loyal]

I have to say that my knowledge of both is sort of limited and is mostly from highlight clips. I am MOST excited about Josh Reynolds and am curious as to why:
1. Why Kupp was picked before Reynolds?
2. Why everyone seems to be geeked that Kupp will be a better pro?

Other fans don't know Reynolds, but watching him on tape he looks like a STUD. Kupp looks precise in his route running, but is not as physically imposing to me. Reynolds is aggressive in getting the ball and both he and Kupp seem to be a less than accurate QB's best friend (wide catching radius and large sticky hands). When I see Reynolds, I see a future dominant WR. In Kupp, I see a nice player and probably not a #1. JMO

and you?

 

[jrry32]

They'll have very different roles in the NFL. Why was Kupp drafted first? He's more pro ready, an easier projection, and better at this point in time. Reynolds is a deep threat as it stands now. He's a long-strider who can win in the air. He has the change of direction skills to be a legitimate threat in the intermediate range as well. He'll need to continue to develop as a route runner. He has a thin frame, and that won't change. His big issues early on will be adapting to a much more complicated scheme, getting off the LOS against press coverage, and winning in the short passing game.

As it stands now, his releases are a bit predictable. He has the quick-twitch athleticism to really develop there. But with his thin frame and play strength issues, it'll be tough for him early on. He's competitive, though. He's a long-strider who doesn't have a lot of suddenness in the first 10 yards. It'll make it more difficult for him to separate underneath. That means he'll have to produce using his frame and ability to win at the catch-point. Reynolds has a lot of the same limitations that Alshon Jeffery had coming out. I want to make clear that Reynolds isn't Alshon, but his game is somewhat similar. If he's going to win underneath, he'll have to do it by using his body and catching it with a defender on him. However, he has the build-up speed to climb over the top of defenders and win 1-on-1 down the field. Alshon had better hands, a bigger body, and more strength/physicality. Reynolds changes directions better and has more upside as a route runner. Reynolds is probably more of a #2 WR if he develops the way I expect.

In regards to Kupp, I've spoken about him ad nauseam. He lacks that extra gear to separate vertically, but he has everything else. And he might still find a way to be a deep threat. There are a lot of guys who win vertically in the NFL without using pure speed. Kupp may be a #1 WR, a #2 WR, or a #3 WR, but I feel confident that he'll consistently produce.

I had Kupp as my #1 WR on Day 2. Reynolds was my #5 WR on Day 2 (#1 on Day 3).

 

[DaveFan'51]

I have to say that my knowledge of both is sort of limited and is mostly from highlight clips. I am MOST excited about Josh Reynolds and am curious as to why:
1. Why Kupp was picked before Reynolds?
2. Why everyone seems to be geeked that Kupp will be a better pro?

Other fans don't know Reynolds, but watching him on tape he looks like a STUD. Kupp looks precise in his route running, but is not as physically imposing to me. Reynolds is aggressive in getting the ball and both he and Kupp seem to be a less than accurate QB's best friend (wide catching radius and large sticky hands). When I see Reynolds, I see a future dominant WR. In Kupp, I see a nice player and probably not a #1. JMO

and you?

I like them both, but I like Kupp Better! It's going to be fun watching them both mature, along with the rest of our WR Corps!!

 

[1maGoh]

I think it's athleticism compared to technical skill. Kupp had the technical skill to beat a variety of people in a variety of ways. Reynolds is athletic enough to be a deep threat consistently. Athleticism can be neutralized, but technical skill always has a chance. But athleticism is shiny and pretty, and we all have difficulty ignoring the shiny pretty things. No offense to you of course, just a general observation about humanity.

 

[jap]

In regards to Kupp, I've spoken about him ad nauseam. He lacks that extra gear to separate vertically, but he has everything else. And he might still find a way to be a deep threat. There are a lot of guys who win vertically in the NFL without using pure speed. Kupp may be a #1 WR, a #2 WR, or a #3 WR, but I feel confident that he'll consistently produce.

Kupp is about as fast as Jerry Rice. He seems to be roughly as hard a worker too---which is saying a ton as Jerry was famous for his super intense workouts. Jerry was simply better conditioned than most NFL players. He may have run 4.6, but he was able to do that in pads and all game long when other supposedly faster but less conditioned players were gassed. Kupp seems to have that Jerry Rice-esque workaholic attitude working for him. Kupp just seems to be a perfectionist who does everything very well---just like you know who. Incidentally, Isaac Bruce should also be mentioned in the same breath as these two guys as being a complete receiver who did everything (route running, catching, blocking, etc.) exceedingly well.

 

[Dxmissile]

They'll have very different roles in the NFL. Why was Kupp drafted first? He's more pro ready, an easier projection, and better at this point in time. Reynolds is a deep threat as it stands now. He's a long-strider who can win in the air. He has the change of direction skills to be a legitimate threat in the intermediate range as well. He'll need to continue to develop as a route runner. He has a thin frame, and that won't change. His big issues early on will be adapting to a much more complicated scheme, getting off the LOS against press coverage, and winning in the short passing game.

As it stands now, his releases are a bit predictable. He has the quick-twitch athleticism to really develop there. But with his thin frame and play strength issues, it'll be tough for him early on. He's competitive, though. He's a long-strider who doesn't have a lot of suddenness in the first 10 yards. It'll make it more difficult for him to separate underneath. That means he'll have to produce using his frame and ability to win at the catch-point. Reynolds has a lot of the same limitations that Alshon Jeffery had coming out. I want to make clear that Reynolds isn't Alshon, but his game is somewhat similar. If he's going to win underneath, he'll have to do it by using his body and catching it with a defender on him. However, he has the build-up speed to climb over the top of defenders and win 1-on-1 down the field. Alshon had better hands, a bigger body, and more strength/physicality. Reynolds changes directions better and has more upside as a route runner. Reynolds is probably more of a #2 WR if he develops the way I expect.

In regards to Kupp, I've spoken about him ad nauseam. He lacks that extra gear to separate vertically, but he has everything else. And he might still find a way to be a deep threat. There are a lot of guys who win vertically in the NFL without using pure speed. Kupp may be a #1 WR, a #2 WR, or a #3 WR, but I feel confident that he'll consistently produce.

I had Kupp as my #1 WR on Day 2. Reynolds was my #5 WR on Day 2 (#1 on Day 3).

I actually feel like Kupp is more Alston Jeffrey I like both of these picks and too me they both have number 1 receiver written all over them.

 

[jrry32]

I actually feel like Kupp is more Alston Jeffrey I like both of these picks and too me they both have number 1 receiver written all over them.

Very different players. Where they win is completely flipped. Alshon is very slow over the first 10 yards but quite fast when he's up to speed. He's also not the quickest athlete. Kupp is pretty fast over the first 10 yards but not that fast when he's up to speed. He is very quick. Kupp's most dangerous in that 5-15 yard range. Alshon is most dangerous in that 15-30 yard range.

 

[Dxmissile]

Very different players. Where they win is completely flipped. Alshon is very slow over the first 10 yards but quite fast when he's up to speed. He's also not the quickest athlete. Kupp is pretty fast over the first 10 yards but not that fast when he's up to speed. He is very quick. Kupp's most dangerous in that 5-15 yard range. Alshon is most dangerous in that 15-30 yard range.

I think in pads Kupp looks faster and more fluid. I'm just not a big fan of Alshon tbh. I think Kupp biggest strength comes from him getting in and out of his breaks quicker so you seem to be right about that 5-15 range when I think about it. I do think Kupp have the potential to be a number 1 to me speed don't determine anything I like all the intangibles that Kupp offers

 

[jap]

I think in pads Kupp looks faster and more fluid. I'm just not a big fan of Alshon tbh. I think Kupp biggest strength comes from him getting in and out of his breaks quicker so you seem to be right about that 5-15 range when I think about it. I do think Kupp have the potential to be a number 1 to me speed don't determine anything I like all the intangibles that Kupp offers

Many WR1's are not heavy on top speed. They simply manage to get open time & again despite double-triple coverage or despite being keyed on. They keys are gaining separation repeatedly or being a consistent receiving beast in traffic. if all of our young receivers get going, they are going to end up taking turns shining from week to week. Whoever gets keyed on will allow the others to be glorified. And if the Gurley Man is being especially disruptive and attracting undue attention on given Sunday, maybe the entire receiving corp and Jared get star billing that weekend.

 

[Dxmissile]

Many WR1's are not heavy on top speed. They simply manage to get open time & again despite double-triple coverage or despite being keyed on. They keys are gaining separation repeatedly or being a consistent receiving beast in traffic. if all of our young receivers get going, they are going to end up taking turns shining from week to week. Whoever gets keyed on will allow the others to be glorified. And if the Gurley Man is being especially disruptive and attracting undue attention and given Sunday, maybe the entire receiving corp and Jared get star billing that weekend.

Exactly and I feel like Kupp can do it all. Reynolds is very exciting he's already my favorite receiver and he haven't caught a ball for us yet. This receiver corps has the potential to be very good real fast

 

[jap]

Exactly and I feel like Kupp can do it all. Reynolds is very exciting he's already my favorite receiver and he haven't caught a ball for us yet. This receiver corps has the potential to be very good real fast

The thing is we got the Man with the Golden Arm who possesses insane accuracy and uncommon touch. If our fly guys do not drop the ball much, between Gurley's distracting performances and the sheer number young, talented Horn receivers (including TEs and RBs), Jared can pile up some insane statistics that can make even the most jaded unbeliever a converted admirer. Kromer, Andrew, and the rest of the OL coaching staff gotta get our Battering Ram front line to believe & deliver so Jared can graduate into a highly successful surgeon of NFL defensive schemes.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I'll let you know when I'm throwing to them in Madden... I feel like Kupp is going to be my go-to guy though.

 

[Zero]

I like them both, but I like Kupp Better! It's going to be fun watching them both mature, along with the rest of our WR Corps!!

Same here Dave.I think you and I like the same type of receivers.
While I like those big play threats at WR and lord knows
we need some.
My favorite kind of WR's are those great route,great hands kind of WR's,
The technician's.
The kind that may not have too many 25yd plus plays.But By-God
if It's 3rd and 8?? He is going to find a way to get open and if it even
looks like it touches his hands.....It's money in the bank!!!
How far am I off Dave?

 

[CanadaRam]

Kupp is about as fast as Jerry Rice. Jerry was simply better conditioned than most NFL players. He may have run 4.6, but he was able to do that in pads and all game long when other supposedly faster but less conditioned players were gassed.

I think that you have made one of the most important and least discussed points. Endurance, stamina, doing things in football situations (after taking a hard hit, etc.) is incredibly important to succeed.
This is one big reason that some phenoms from the combine do not translate to the field.

 

[InnovatedMind]

I think that you have made one of the most important and least discussed points. Endurance, stamina, doing things in football situations (after taking a hard hit, etc.) is incredibly important to succeed.
This is one big reason that some phenoms from the combine do not translate to the field.

*cough* JohnRoss. *cough*

 

[shaunpinney]

I have to say that my knowledge of both is sort of limited and is mostly from highlight clips. I am MOST excited about Josh Reynolds and am curious as to why:
1. Why Kupp was picked before Reynolds?
2. Why everyone seems to be geeked that Kupp will be a better pro?

Other fans don't know Reynolds, but watching him on tape he looks like a STUD. Kupp looks precise in his route running, but is not as physically imposing to me. Reynolds is aggressive in getting the ball and both he and Kupp seem to be a less than accurate QB's best friend (wide catching radius and large sticky hands). When I see Reynolds, I see a future dominant WR. In Kupp, I see a nice player and probably not a #1. JMO

and you?

Good OP @LoyalRam - Before i get down to the reasoning IMO - I like both picks - they compliment each other fantastically.

Ok so here goes:

Kupp - IMO is the most pro-ready WR in this year's class his on-field effort and his off-field prep & training regime speaks volumes of this kid - He wants to succeed. His route running is crips and well developed and hands are beautiful and he consistently finds daylight after the catch - something which is priceless in the NFL. His game speed is fast (faster than his combine times anyway) but I think it's his understanding and technicality is what gets hime the extra yard or two on cover. I have high hopes on Kupp becoming a QB comfort blanket. That dependable guy that will work for the first down.

Reynolds - Has great deep speed and it a rangy guy that gets up there and turns the 50/50 ball into his favour. He'll need to put some work in the weight room to add a bit of strength to compete with physical corners in the NFL, but thats something that can be remedied. He is a little raw I guess and his route tree / running and on-field spacing needs to be worked on, but I think the sky's the limit with Reynolds IF he can put the time in and coach Yarber can get the production out of him. I've read a couple of pro-scouts comment that he could be "the most productive receiver in this class in 3 years" and "in a couple of years he could be the steal of the draft" - but I can't find those reports right now!

Basically:

Kupp - is a matured, solid NFL-ready pro, ready to run and slide right into the starting line-up day 1 - but he may have hit his high ceiling already.
Reynolds - could be that elite #1 guy, in a year or two given the right nurturing to reach his sky-high ceiling.

You draft Kupp first as he's a surer bet to be a success on day 1 whereas, at the moment, Reynolds needs a little time and work to mature into the elite target he could be.

 

[Faceplant]

In regards to Kupp, I've spoken about him ad nauseam. He lacks that extra gear to separate vertically, but he has everything else. And he might still find a way to be a deep threat.

I thought I read that he was clocked at over 21MPH at the senior bowl or something. He may not get off as quick, but his long speed should be more than adequate if that is the case.

I am almost certain it was Kupp that I saw clocked that fast, but it may have been Reynolds. Either way, we got a deep threat. YAY!!!

 

[jrry32]

I thought I read that he was clocked at over 21MPH at the senior bowl or something. He may not get off as quick, but his long speed should be more than adequate if that is the case.

I am almost certain it was Kupp that I saw clocked that fast, but it may have been Reynolds. Either way, we got a deep threat. YAY!!!

It was Kupp, but there's no context to that number.

 

[Dxmissile]

The thing is we got the Man with the Golden Arm who possesses insane accuracy and uncommon touch. If our fly guys do not drop the ball much, between Gurley's distracting performances and the sheer number young, talented Horn receivers (including TEs and RBs), Jared can pile up some insane statistics that can make even the most jaded unbeliever a converted admirer. Kromer, Andrew, and the rest of the OL coaching staff gotta get our Battering Ram front line to believe & deliver so Jared can graduate into a highly successful surgeon of NFL defensive schemes.

I'm definitely not the biggest Goff t fan his arm talent I don't deny I just hope he gets the mental part of the game. If so I have a lot of confidence for this season

 

[Faceplant]

It was Kupp, but there's no context to that number.

What context do you need? I am pretty sure it was in pads and in play. 21mph in any context is impressive, yes?