Black Monday Primer

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I want all of our coaches fired after every year. Keep changing until one of them gets lucky enough to take advantage of a healthy team, weak schedule, and his young team executes just enough to make the playoffs. Then fire them too when the season is over, because ultimately it will be their reason we didn't win the Super Bowl. Or, if we actually do get a coach to win a Super Bowl after his first year, keep him until they fail to reach it again. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum. Why?

Because I'm freakin' stupid.

7pYm87s.jpg

Good idea, I prefer the 3 year, five first round pick approach (whichever comes second), but yours might work.
 

WestCoastRam

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True, but look at the huge turnarounds beginning in 2010 (starting here just since it was the drafting of Sam).

Carolina: 2-12/6-10/7-9/12-4
Hags: 7-9/7-9/11-5/13-3/
Zona: 5-11/8-8/5-11/10-6/
Cincy: 4-12/9-7/10-6/11-5

Rams: 7-9/2-14/7-8/7-9

Rams development still seems stagnant.

Athos,

Thanks for putting that together. Shouldn't we subtract the first two years you have for the Rams since they weren't on the Fisher regime (or, at least the first year to just have the 2-14 for context)... and if we do, I'd stack that up against the above turn arounds. I think next year has to be the telling year. Do they have a winning record? What will it be? I'm not a fan of three years and you're done for the NFL. It's a cycle that doesn't seem to work. I'm not even a fan of four years and done.

I say you give a coach 4 years in the NFL before they're even on the hot seat (I'm sure they're are exceptions to the rule like Linehan who totally look like he lost the team before that). And if you can't win by year 5, you're gone. Kinda sucks when you think about adding 2 years to the turnaround life-cycle but I suspect that the analytics would show that 3 years and done sets a team back and that the turnarounds that come after that have as much to do with the previous regimes work as it does with the new coach.
 

Athos

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I say you give a coach 4 years in the NFL before they're even on the hot seat (I'm sure they're are exceptions to the rule like Linehan who totally look like he lost the team before that). And if you can't win by year 5, you're gone. Kinda sucks when you think about adding 2 years to the turnaround life-cycle but I suspect that the analytics would show that 3 years and done sets a team back and that the turnarounds that come after that have as much to do with the previous regimes work as it does with the new coach.

Maybe.......but when you have a great collection of talent early on and it doesn't pay off soon enough...you're basically going to have to rebuild a ton.

Quinn has his deal and it is pretty good thankfully.

But pretty soon, you'll have new contracts coming up for Jenkins, Brockers, Quick, Tru J, GZ coming up after the 2015 season and the season after that, Austin, Ogletree, TJ, Studman.

Lotta pieces to have to re-sign and we're already out a 4th and 6th rounder this coming draft.

Fisher has to put some shit together next season or he may be out. Especially if he regresses the Rams to a 6-10 season. I mean...those other teams I listed, it took 3ish years for the turnaround.

Rams have been suffering since the remnants of the GSOT with not just bad seasons, but uncompetitive seasons. So many players on the Rams haven't even experienced winning in the NFL. I don't think that breeds killer instinct very well.

Something HAS to be done about QB though. And this regime has had the opportunity to have a solid plan B to Sam and wet the bed. I don't totally blame them for it, but at the same time....I blame em big time.
 

MrMotes

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You can't really build teams the way you used to. The new CBA limits rookie deals to 4 years, your hits are gonna get paid sooner rather than later. That means more turnover, younger teams, quicker turnarounds...
 

Athos

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You can't really build teams the way you used to. The new CBA limits rookie deals to 4 years, your hits are gonna get paid sooner rather than later. That means more turnover, younger teams, quicker turnarounds...

Yep. Which is why if you're the Rams, you gotta hit on all those crap tons of early round picks and cultivate them into winners sooner than later. 5, 6, 7 year re-building programs won't work. And fans shouldn't have to expect 5, 6, 7 year re-builds. You can do that in baseball b/c talent takes longer to develop but FA is more likely to do well for you too.

I fear we'll be back where we started before Fisher if he doesn't get us over the hump next season.
 

DaveFan'51

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Not surprising, still 3 losing seasons in a row, you'd think next year will be playoffs or your out.

For me 6-9 isn't good enough after 3 years, but if Kroenke is OK with it my opinion really doesn't matter.
It has been a total re-build for Fisher & Company, And with losing Bradford and Chris Long, Two Captains, to start the year, don't you get it!?

Yeah it was a poor team, but it was a poor team with some talent, Long, Quinn, Laurinaitis must rank in our top 5 defensive players still, Saffold is our most consistent OL when healthy, and I'd still take Kendricks over Cook.

They've also had an abundance of resources, both in the draft and in FA, if I was to blame Fisher for anything it would be not nailing a DC when he heard Williams was going to be suspended and the Long and Wells signings on the OL. For me they're the two biggest contributing factors in 6-9, are they enough to fire Fisher for?

If it was up to me we'd go into next season with Snead still as GM but a new HC, but luckily for most fans on here it's not up to me :D.
On this point, you seem to forget Long was out most of this year!?! Rams and Gators, I am absolutely sure you are a Rams Fan, You've been here for some time, and your THE Pit Boss! BUT! " Nothing Personal! You always seem like a " Glass half empty vs Glass half full type guy. Challenge, for once, can you, create a thread, " Five Reasons why I 'Love the Rams' and leave it at that!???
 

Mojo Ram

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My hope is that Kroenke is smart enough to realize that the best way to do this is to build a program and stick with it. Fisher/Snead get five years minimum if i'm the owner.

I look at New England, Green Bay, Pittsburgh and to some extent New Orleans, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and maybe even now Dallas. The common denominators are stability, trust, patience, belief in what your doing...and unfortunately in most cases an upper echelon/elite QB. Having that QB is the straw that stirs the drink, but if you're getting stuck into the vicious cycle of changing regimes and blowing it up every few years...your glass is always empty...although everyone will look at it as half full because of the popular "blowing it up will be better than this" mentality.

Teams rebuild, get to 7-9, 8-8 and then get impatient. Sometimes GM's and coaches will then make decisions that can set the entire process back. Their program isn't fully established yet. Young players have been drafted for a few years, coaches are beginning to see their vision come together, scouts and front office people are beginning to understand what it is that everyone is working towards. There are signs on the field that the hard work and shared vision is beginning to pay off. Why would you halt that momentum just because you think(as an owner or HC) that there's a small chance to go from 7 to 12 wins in one offseason? The answer is to save your job, which has nothing to do with rebuilding a team and establishing a trusted system and a winning program.

Stick with it. Stick with the plan. A three year rebuild is a small chunk of time. It can go three ways.
1.Worst to first
2.Steady slow
3.Backwards.
IMO It's pretty simple to see which category this regime falls under right now.

The better teams, the teams that are successful year in and year out, have an established identity, continuity and a machine-like ability to have a down year and yet nobody panics because there's always someone or some type of contingency plan in place. There's trust from the owner to the guy who manages the cap to the GM to the scouts to the HC that everyone knows what they're doing.

Assistants coaches move around often...that's the nature of the game. You're lucky to have stability there. You hire and fire in order to adapt and hopefully improve your system....not to change the system entirely. You've just spent three years drafting players to fit YOUR system.

Rams need to continue doing what they're doing IMO, and continue adding some walls to the solid foundation that's been built here over the last three years. Hopefully we can find a franchise QB soon because none of that means much if you don't have that important piece.

This post was WAY too long. I'm a much better talker than i am a writer/poster. I'd tell ya'll whats up. fuckers....
Sometimes I wish we could organize a ROD community Skype or something. That would be cool...maybe. :)
 

LesBaker

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And yet our QB play hasn't been awful, the Lions sit at 11-4, the Eagles at 9-6, Texans 8-7 and the Bengals 10-5, all with worse QB play.

I'll give you that he is better than Lineman and Spags, but neither of them were retained, so simply being better than them isn't reason enough to retain Fisher.

I'd disagree on that point vehemently.
 

LesBaker

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My hope is that Kroenke is smart enough to realize that the best way to do this is to build a program and stick with it. Fisher/Snead get five years minimum if i'm the owner.

I look at New England, Green Bay, Pittsburgh and to some extent New Orleans, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and maybe even now Dallas. The common denominators are stability, trust, patience, belief in what your doing...and unfortunately in most cases an upper echelon/elite QB. Having that QB is the straw that stirs the drink, but if you're getting stuck into the vicious cycle of changing regimes and blowing it up every few years...your glass is always empty...although everyone will look at it as half full because of the popular "blowing it up will be better than this" mentality.

Teams rebuild, get to 7-9, 8-8 and then get impatient. Sometimes GM's and coaches will then make decisions that can set the entire process back. Their program isn't fully established yet. Young players have been drafted for a few years, coaches are beginning to see their vision come together, scouts and front office people are beginning to understand what it is that everyone is working towards. There are signs on the field that the hard work and shared vision is beginning to pay off. Why would you halt that momentum just because you think(as an owner or HC) that there's a small chance to go from 7 to 12 wins in one offseason? The answer is to save your job, which has nothing to do with rebuilding a team and establishing a trusted system and a winning program.

Stick with it. Stick with the plan. A three year rebuild is a small chunk of time. It can go three ways.
1.Worst to first
2.Steady slow
3.Backwards.
IMO It's pretty simple to see which category this regime falls under right now.

The better teams, the teams that are successful year in and year out, have an established identity, continuity and a machine-like ability to have a down year and yet nobody panics because there's always someone or some type of contingency plan in place. There's trust from the owner to the guy who manages the cap to the GM to the scouts to the HC that everyone knows what they're doing.

Assistants coaches move around often...that's the nature of the game. You're lucky to have stability there. You hire and fire in order to adapt and hopefully improve your system....not to change the system entirely. You've just spent three years drafting players to fit YOUR system.

Rams need to continue doing what they're doing IMO, and continue adding some walls to the solid foundation that's been built here over the last three years. Hopefully we can find a franchise QB soon because none of that means much if you don't have that important piece.

This post was WAY too long. I'm a much better talker than i am a writer/poster. I'd tell ya'll whats up. fuckers....
Sometimes I wish we could organize a ROD community Skype or something. That would be cool...maybe. :)

Good post right here. And I agree Fisher and Snead get at least one more year nad should get two. The rebuild really was that big.

And they have been sticking to the plan nicely, building through the draft. Now the issue is finding a QB since Bradford has been injured and tossed a monkey wrench into the works.

This is a really big deal, what these guys are doing is so far so good IMO.

Do you guys remember when the Rams used to give up points in massive amounts game after game year after year? That's behind us, and the O is coming one. This is close........
 

den-the-coach

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Hey Den, I never was that impressed with what I read about Cignetti as an offensive guy. If Schotty doesn't go, I'd kinda hope he'd get a job elsewhere just so we could get a shot at a QB whisperer in that position. It never seemed to be his bread and butter. Especially if we're gonna draft a young guy next year.

I had high hopes for Cignetti and he does have an extensive background as QB Coach and offensive play caller. Seems that the Ram quarterbacks have been ready like Austin Davis for example and did a really good job back in 1999 as the Chiefs offensive coordinator the only time he's been an OC in the NFL.

Has he really developed any QB's? The answer is no as nobody truly stands out, however, I always felt he had an excellent history as a play caller and if Fisher did make a change and promoted internally IMO I liked Cignetti more than Schottenheimer, but for now it seems both will still be in St. Louis come 2015 and all it takes to make both men look like Geniuses is a great quarterback....So let's hope for a healthy Bradford because I'm sure both those gentlemen are too!
 

Athos

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I look at New England, Green Bay, Pittsburgh and to some extent New Orleans, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and maybe even now Dallas. The common denominators are stability, trust, patience, belief in what your doing...and unfortunately in most cases an upper echelon/elite QB. Having that QB is the straw that stirs the drink, but if you're getting stuck into the vicious cycle of changing regimes and blowing it up every few years...your glass is always empty...although everyone will look at it as half full because of the popular "blowing it up will be better than this" mentality.

Well, with those teams actually (sans Cincinnati, somewhat DAL) is elite QB continuity.

GB has had Rodgers for 10 years, some of which he basically got to understudy a HOF QB.
NE despite how much I hate them and can't stand Brady, have had a top QB for 15 years.
PIT has had a top 10 QB (most years) in Big Ben for 11 years.
NO a top 10 QB for 9 years.
Indy (the lucky bastards) had a HOF QB for 14 years, before tanking in the perfect year to tank, for their new top 10 QB, so they've now had a top 10 QB 17 years running.
DAL for all the Tony Lomo jokes I have, a top 15 to 10 top QB for 12 years.

Having a true, blue blood franchise QB means FAR MORE to winning and continuity than your stability, trust, patience imo. Especially when you have them that long.

Having that elite QB already locked up and in place makes a shit ton of other football stuff easier. You just have to have a QB to win these days. An above average QB. Or an incredible defense with very good skill players.


Fisher, I'm afraid, no longer has that. His loyalty is an admirable quality, as was/is his faith in Sam's abilities. But his faith blinded him for the lack of well.....anything after Bradford so now we've fucked in the ass unless we hit pay dirt with a mid round QB in 2015 or 2016 or trade up for Mariota/Winston or w/e. B/C, from what I can tell, the QBs in the next few years seems royally lacking in franchise level talent.

We just seem shit out of luck for QB now barring a miracle with Sam. I'm not sure he's ready to start the reason, and I just have no faith he'll last a full season anymore with that knee.

So now what?
 

Mojo Ram

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Well, with those teams actually (sans Cincinnati, somewhat DAL) is elite QB continuity.

GB has had Rodgers for 10 years, some of which he basically got to understudy a HOF QB.
NE despite how much I hate them and can't stand Brady, have had a top QB for 15 years.
PIT has had a top 10 QB (most years) in Big Ben for 11 years.
NO a top 10 QB for 9 years.
Indy (the lucky bastards) had a HOF QB for 14 years, before tanking in the perfect year to tank, for their new top 10 QB, so they've now had a top 10 QB 17 years running.
DAL for all the Tony Lomo jokes I have, a top 15 to 10 top QB for 12 years.

Having a true, blue blood franchise QB means FAR MORE to winning and continuity than your stability, trust, patience imo. Especially when you have them that long.

Having that elite QB already locked up and in place makes a crap ton of other football stuff easier. You just have to have a QB to win these days. An above average QB. Or an incredible defense with very good skill players.


Fisher, I'm afraid, no longer has that. His loyalty is an admirable quality, as was/is his faith in Sam's abilities. But his faith blinded him for the lack of well.....anything after Bradford so now we've fucked in the ass unless we hit pay dirt with a mid round QB in 2015 or 2016 or trade up for Mariota/Winston or w/e. B/C, from what I can tell, the QBs in the next few years seems royally lacking in franchise level talent.

We just seem crap out of luck for QB now barring a miracle with Sam. I'm not sure he's ready to start the reason, and I just have no faith he'll last a full season anymore with that knee.

So now what?
I said as much in my post. Maybe you didn't get that far? ;)
No argument from me. Having that very good/elite QB is essential, but blowing it up every three years doesn't guarantee you're gonna get that QB. What good is having the number one pick to draft a franchise QB with...when you're just going to dismantle the coaching staff and the team around him in three years anyway?
 
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Challenge, for once, can you, create a thread, " Five Reasons why I 'Love the Rams' and leave it at that!???

I'm not sure I can come up with 5 reasons I love anything, 5 things I love about something is fairly easy, I love our throwback uniforms for example, but the fact we wear blue and yellow two times each year isn't the reason I sit down at 6pm every Sunday to go thorough what has mostly be misery for 16 weeks each year, or spent two days traveling to and from a game earlier this year.

If "because I do" isn't a good enough reason for something (and I don't think it is) then I have nothing.
 

Athos

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No argument from me. Having that very good/elite QB is essential, but blowing it up every three years doesn't guarantee you're gonna get that QB. What good is having the number one pick to draft a franchise QB with...when you're just going to dismantle the coaching staff and the team around him in three years anyway?

Well, since the Rams have no franchise QB to depend on, nothing to worry about! ;)

Seriously though......we're fucking boned at the QB position now. 2014 was the year to seriously address it. And seriously....2015/2016, hell, maybe even 2017....those classes look frighteningly bad.
 

WestCoastRam

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I had high hopes for Cignetti and he does have an extensive background as QB Coach and offensive play caller. Seems that the Ram quarterbacks have been ready like Austin Davis for example and did a really good job back in 1999 as the Chiefs offensive coordinator the only time he's been an OC in the NFL.

Has he really developed any QB's? The answer is no as nobody truly stands out, however, I always felt he had an excellent history as a play caller and if Fisher did make a change and promoted internally IMO I liked Cignetti more than Schottenheimer, but for now it seems both will still be in St. Louis come 2015 and all it takes to make both men look like Geniuses is a great quarterback....So let's hope for a healthy Bradford because I'm sure both those gentlemen are too!

Eeeeenteresting... you mean, I may not have gleaned the entire story of a coaches skill-sets and career from a few articles on the internet. I don't know, Den, sounds kinda unbelievable that I wouldn't know it all after that. Psha.
 

den-the-coach

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We just seem crap out of luck for QB now barring a miracle with Sam. I'm not sure he's ready to start the reason, and I just have no faith he'll last a full season anymore with that knee.

So now what?

Unless the Rams make a trade for Cutler or trade up in the draft for Winston most likely the route that has been posted about by @jrry32, @Memphis Ram & @FRO is most likely the best scenario....Restructure Bradford make a deal for Tampa Bay Buccaneer QB Mike Glennon and draft QB that you feel has more upside than Austin Davis like Shane Carden (3rd round), Nick Marshall or Blake Sims later.

Then if Bradford is finally healthy great, but at the very minimum Glennon offers some upside being a big QB with a strong arm that would offer more hope than the last two years.
 

tempests

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The better teams, the teams that are successful year in and year out, have an established identity, continuity and a machine-like ability to have a down year and yet nobody panics because there's always someone or some type of contingency plan in place. There's trust from the owner to the guy who manages the cap to the GM to the scouts to the HC that everyone knows what they're doing.

Thing of it is, that continuity, that trust exists because they are winning. Mike Tomlin has not had a losing season yet. Bill Cowher started out with six straight. Belichick had delivered a SB to New England within two years(How long did Pete Carroll last there?). Mike Holmgren had eight winning seasons in a row with GB.

They're not winning because they have continuity, they have continuity because they're winning.
 

Athos

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Thing of it is, that continuity, that trust exists because they are winning. Mike Tomlin has not had a losing season yet. Bill Cowher started out with six straight. Belichick had delivered a SB to New England within two years(How long did Pete Carroll last there?). Mike Holmgren had eight winning seasons in a row with GB.

They're not winning because they have continuity, they have continuity because they're winning.

Agreed. Hence my comment on this team not KNOWING winning anymore. They just don't. Which is why they don't seem to have a killer instinct in finishing off games a lot of the time or dealing with adversity very well because....their entire NFL careers have been losing careers. Not even break even seasons.

It's great we aren't getting blown the shit out anymore, but losing is still losing at the end of the day and we're staring at the business end of a 6-10 season with the Hags playing for the DIV.

Having a worse season on what should have at least been 8-8 with this defense.....meh. Maybe I'm still bitter about not getting a QB this year when we should have, but.....False hope does that to you.
 

Memphis Ram

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I still hate that organizations have allowed themselves to have their destiny shaped by whether or not they have a "franchise" QB when there are simply so few in existence. And even if you think you have a decent starter, you season can still be jeopardy if he gets hurt. Sad.

With a loss tomorrow, Jeff Fisher's Rams might have even been 5-11 with a decent goal line camera angle in San Francisco.:(
 
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