Article: The Redemption of Josh McDaniels

[Merlin]

Don't want a young head coach or a college coach looking for his first opportunity. And I don't want anyone from the Belichick tree due to their history of dismal failure after leaving that organization to coach elsewhere.

Who I want for the next HC of the Rams is a no-nonsense, grizzled, veteran coach that will bring order and cut down on the ridiculous penalties and boneheaded mistakes that we have become infamous for. Tom Coughlin, Mike Shanahan...someone like that.

Doesn't mean I'm right and everyone else is wrong. This is merely my desire to get this team to the next level.

Yeah I'm trackin. I know where you're coming from.

Coughlin is not an option, though, IMO. Dude is too old, this hire is too important, and we can do better, need to do better. Mike Shanahan is a name I have persisted in thinking that Kroenke will want, as that vet type coach you allude to. I personally don't think he's the right guy, but if they were to hire him I wouldn't be upset as he is more of the "safe" type hire and I do think Gurley would kill it in his offense.

But back to the young kids, the coordinator types that are very much hit and miss, we have an advantage in ownership that allows for that to really pay off. Stan is patient and will allow that young coach to grow into the position. As long as he isn't an @$$hat like Haley and McDaniels were their first go-rounds, at some point the offensive knowledge should grow this offense quickly and the team overall should be able to grow with that head coach.

If you look at Belichick he had signs of greatness as an OC. He had that rare teaching and gameplanning combination of abilities that allowed his defenses to do great things, the production was there. Fish never had that. So looking at the coordinator types that is where I start, with the production. If they have demonstrated top-notch performance in teaching/gameplanning with on-field results they are on my interview list. And that would not be the case if I had an owner who was impatient.

 

[dieterbrock]

Well first off I would have him on my interview list. And from there your question is important, just like it's important to know that the guy has grown from the impetuous young guy who pi$$ed on the fire there in Denver into the coach the Rams are looking for.

None of us know that. My deal is not to go into this thing with too much bias and miss an opportunity to do this right. I have my favorites just like everyone else, but will a guy like Cooter or Shanny Jr (both of whom I like very much of the coordinator types) need to learn the same lessons McDaniels did? Maybe.

Are you trying to argue that McDaniels wasn't fired from the Rams? Because he was. It wasn't his choice to leave, the whole coaching staff was canned
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2012/1/2/2677142/st-louis-rams-fire-steve-spagnuolo-josh-mcdaniels

 

[Merlin]

Are you trying to argue that McDaniels wasn't fired from the Rams? Because he was. It wasn't his choice to leave, the whole coaching staff was canned
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2012/1/2/2677142/st-louis-rams-fire-steve-spagnuolo-josh-mcdaniels

What? Think you quoted the wrong post there brother.

 

[Prime Time]

Stan is patient and will allow that young coach to grow into the position.

The fan base isn't patient however and they are the ones who buy the tickets and the merchandise, and either boost or lower the TV ratings.

I'm going to predict, due to the surprise in-season firing of Jeff Fisher, during a short week no less, that the Stan Kroenke of St. Louis will not be the Stan Kroenke of L.A. He may not be necessarily more visible but will be much more hands-on behind the scenes. He has way too much invested to totally delegate this team to others while it continues to flounder in the basement of the NFL.

His future hook will come much quicker when he sees that things aren't working out as he wants. The 5-year Jeff Fisher experiment will not be repeated with anyone else.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Boy, the article sure sheds a different light on McDaniels than what he was in Denver and St.. Louis.

At the time, I made no bones about not liking the hire as our OC... took many hits on that one as well.

His refusal to make adjustments to the talent he had on the Oline resulted in Bradford getting punished on a regular basis (and eventually going down IIRC).

But, IF he has learned his lessons, he was a HC and has some knowledge of what that entails.

I think it's easy to underestimate the vast skill set an NFL HC must possess:
* Strong organizational skills
* Strong talent evaluation skills (yes, players.. but probably more importantly, coaches)
* Strong interpersonal skills (communication, accountability, discipline)
* Strategic thinker
* Teacher

Just some of the traits... to me, Vermiel was one of the best at this.

He had a keen eye for coaching talent, then let them do their jobs while holding them accountable with reasonable patience.

This is why I am nervous about first time NFL HCs. Now, as Fisher taught us, simply being a prior NFL HC means nothing if you don't possess the above skill set (he did not).

But simply having been in that chair is invaluable experience. McDaniels was in that chair.

That's why IF he truly has learned his lessons, he might be a good candidate (never would have thought I'd say that!).

Another example of a HC who struggled and learned? McDaniels boss.

 

[Rmfnlt]

The fan base isn't patient however and they are the ones who buy the tickets and the merchandise, and either boost or lower the TV ratings.

I'm going to predict, due to the surprise in-season firing of Jeff Fisher, during a short week no less, that the Stan Kroenke of St. Louis will not be the Stan Kroenke of L.A. He may not be necessarily more visible but will be much more hands-on behind the scenes. He has way too much invested to totally delegate this team to others while it continues to flounder in the basement of the NFL.

His future hook will come much quicker when he sees that things aren't working out as he wants. The 5-year Jeff Fisher experiment will not be repeated with anyone else.

Agree.

The stakes - namely, that stadium - are MUCH higher.

You think, had they stayed in St. Louis, Fisher would have kept his job for some time longer?

 

[Prime Time]

You think, had they stayed in St. Louis, Fisher would have kept his job for some time longer?

Through the end of the season at least and possibly through 2017.

 

[dieterbrock]

What? Think you quoted the wrong post there brother.

Da fuq?
Sorry bout that.

 

[dieterbrock]

Coughlin is not an option, though, IMO

You are on the money.
Coughlin from 15 years ago maybe, but he is not the disciplinarian that people think. Those days are long gone.

 

[dieterbrock]

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/56747/why-rams-let-mcdaniels-land-with-patriots

"firing McDaniels would have forced the Rams to pick up some of his salary. Letting McDaniels go to the Patriots means New England will assume all the financial burden for the one year remaining on McDaniels' contract with St. Louis.

Had McDaniels been fired, rules would have required his next NFL team to pay him a competitive wage, with the Rams picking up the difference. With the Patriots picking up the full tab, the Rams can commit the savings to their next staff. League rules would have prevented the Rams from extracting cash or draft choices from the Patriots for McDaniels; such exchanges are allowed only for head coaches and top executives."

Right, the Rams canned McD, it wasn't his choice to leave

 

[Merlin]

The fan base isn't patient however and they are the ones who buy the tickets and the merchandise, and either boost or lower the TV ratings.

This is true. And it's also what gives me hope that Stan will call Jim Harbaugh and woo him over with a top-notch compensation package and final say on personnel. Harbaugh is the ONE move that is an absolute slam dunk not only from a football sense, but also from an excitement and fan hope perspective.

Winning is the key, and they can hit on a hot coordinator. But that way lies risk and less hoopla and it's why I still hope we see Harbaugh get done.

 

[blackbart]

Right, the Rams canned McD, it wasn't his choice to leave

That is not what it says. It says it was a mutual agreement that they allowed him to leave. He did not get fired and then take a new job he resigned if anything.

 

[Mackeyser]

This is true. And it's also what gives me hope that Stan will call Jim Harbaugh and woo him over with a top-notch compensation package and final say on personnel. Harbaugh is the ONE move that is an absolute slam dunk not only from a football sense, but also from an excitement and fan hope perspective.

Winning is the key, and they can hit on a hot coordinator. But that way lies risk and less hoopla and it's why I still hope we see Harbaugh get done.

As I've seen on twitter, getting Harbaugh will be nigh on impossible. He's got 4 kids under 8 in a school he went to (I presume that includes preschool...otherwise, his wife was constantly pregnant!) and a kid at U of M.

Now, it's possible that a backed up brinks truck and an "offer he can't refuse" could lure him away, but I've always been under the impression that it would basically take a type of offer that says, "this is why you should leave your life long dream job. This offer isn't compelling. It's exigent. As a Coach, you'll take it or regret it for the rest of your life." And that's while the guy is ALREADY living his dream in his dream job making fantastic bank.

 

[Merlin]

As I've seen on twitter, getting Harbaugh will be nigh on impossible. He's got 4 kids under 8 in a school he went to (I presume that includes preschool...otherwise, his wife was constantly pregnant!) and a kid at U of M.

Now, it's possible that a backed up brinks truck and an "offer he can't refuse" could lure him away, but I've always been under the impression that it would basically take a type of offer that says, "this is why you should leave your life long dream job. This offer isn't compelling. It's exigent. As a Coach, you'll take it or regret it for the rest of your life." And that's while the guy is ALREADY living his dream in his dream job making fantastic bank.

Maybe so. I mean, I don't know what Harbaugh is thinking.

As I mentioned before I'd simply make him a top-notch offer and if he doesn't bite carry on with my coaching search. I'll say this too: jobs like this one don't come around all that often, with the confluence of so many things to make it so attractive. Jim Harbaugh undoubtedly knows that, many do around the league, and it's why this job is going to be such a big deal.

 

[dieterbrock]

That is not what it says. It says it was a mutual agreement that they allowed him to leave. He did not get fired and then take a new job he resigned if anything.

It wasn't mutual. The Rams fired the whole staff. Mcdaniels had a 2 year deal so they told him he wasn't being brought back and that he should find work elsewhere.
You're trying to recreate history here.

 

[jrry32]

If you go back and look at it, Denver never initiated trade talks, they just did what any good organization would do and listen to the offer. In typical Cutler fashion, he was miffed and demanded a trade once he heard.

McDaniels got pretty good run out of Orton, which is pretty impressive for a rookie HC.
I'm not enamored with McDaniels, but compared to the list of possible/likely names out there right now, I'd slot him in at #2 maybe #3 at worst.

What I have read put things in a bit of a different light. The Broncos were actively pursuing Matt Cassel. And Ted Sundquist (former Broncos GM) claimed that Cutler demanding a trade was actually caused by McDaniels' first meeting with Cutler. He reportedly listed out his (McDaniels') resume and then spent the remainder of the meeting telling Cutler how bad of a QB he was.

He was describing a story...while at SF as a scout. And he said someone told him to only worry about the 8. The 8 elite teams in the league then...and he said there are still only 8 good franchises. It was interesting...but something about the whole culture is football guys, where Demoff is all cap...and he should have no say in who's hired...and how much control that person has. Basically, find a football guy, and Demoff shouldn't have any say...in any football decisions...not contracts, not personnel, definitely not which coaches are hired.
NOT UP yet
Skip & Shannon Undisputed 12/13/2016 Mike Lombardi
check youtube in a couple hours...

It makes no sense to give Demoff no say in contracts and the cap when that's his specialty. He's exceptional at it. I also think you're selling Demoff short when you say he's not a football guy. But it doesn't surprise me that's the opinion of people like Lombardi. It's a good way to justify the good ole boys league that the NFL is.

Don't want a young head coach or a college coach looking for his first opportunity. And I don't want anyone from the Belichick tree due to their history of dismal failure after leaving that organization to coach elsewhere.

Who I want for the next HC of the Rams is a no-nonsense, grizzled, veteran coach that will bring order and cut down on the ridiculous penalties and boneheaded mistakes that we have become infamous for. Tom Coughlin, Mike Shanahan...someone like that.

Doesn't mean I'm right and everyone else is wrong. This is merely my desire to get this team to the next level.

That's fair. I understand this. I would love to get a proven HC if we can. I just want to avoid getting a guy who the game might have passed by. And my concern is that Coughlin and Papa Shanny have been passed by. Plus, Coughlin is so old. Just one man's opinion.

 

[Rams77]

Why would we want a head coach that has been terrible anywhere else but in New England? He destroyed the Broncos roster and the Rams 32nd ranked offense in a span of 3 years. He's been riding Brady and Belichecks coat tails. The risk is way too high-pass please

 

[Merlin]

Why would we want a head coach that has been terrible anywhere else but in New England? He destroyed the Broncos roster and the Rams 32nd ranked offense in a span of 3 years. He's been riding Brady and Belichecks coat tails. The risk is way too high-pass please

I'm not going to defend the dude, as it's not like he's my top choice or anything, but his biggest fail in Denver was that they gave a young "offensive genius" control of an NFL franchise and his ego ran rampant. It was like giving a can of gas and a lighter to a 10 year old and telling him go play in a wheat field.

But if you just take a moment to focus on what he does have in value--his offensive knowledge--it's pretty clear the guy is the type of interview you want. Rare offensive coordinator types are not easy to get and it's why Denver made that mistake in the first place. And the guy bounced back big time even though it was with New England, and has reportedly matured from that ego-driven young guy.

So I think it's fair to ask the question, if you are Kevin Demoff, and you envision him under a solid GM, whether it's wise to eliminate him from consideration. I don't think it is man. I would bring him in and hear his plan, ask him tough questions and see if the maturity is there. Because that's my concern. I know the guy has a great grasp of offensive football.

 

[dieterbrock]

And my concern is that Coughlin and Papa Shanny have been passed by. Plus, Coughlin is so old. Just one man's opinion.

That's the thing, what made Coughlin and Shanny so great was their type ship, disciplinarian approach.
Which in Coughlin's case was the polar opposite of the coach he had become. Old Tom let his "stars" walk all over the place and he had no control over Beckham. His different rules for different players approach failed miserably in NY which led to his demise.
Shanny, met a similar fate in Washington however I think it had more to do with the owner sticking his nose in.
I'd say Shanny has more gas in the tank but his age is a concern no doubt
All told, yeah I'd prefer a younger, innovative mindset. A coach who has cut his teeth in the common landscape, with the current rules/advantages the passing game now has.
The old timer in me surely reveres the "good old days" approach to running the ball down teams throats but it just isn't realistic in todays game

 

[LACHAMP46]

It makes no sense to give Demoff no say in contracts and the cap when that's his specialty.

Okay....this is where I stand with KD....I am hoping, GM/Fish don't just say, we need to get Britt/Barron/Tavon/Ogletree/Saffold or whoever SIGNED! And Kevin just says, " ok". Because, this is how we get Kendricks, Austin, Barnes, Barron, Saffold, Quinn, and Brockers signed...and the only guys playing up to their contracts are Brockers & Barron (barely). Whos decision was it to sign guys to these figures? Who decided to low ball Jenkins? They should have some type of table to show future value of a veteran versus a draft pick. Because whomever is handling this end of the business is doing it terribly. The best players should be paid the best. I believe any accountant can get the numbers correct. Front load a deal...We need someone that knows WHO to offer contracts. For how much...and how long.