All this talk about hiring Martz?

[-X-]

[My Opinion]

Forget that. There's such a huge discrepancy between how Fisher and Martz view an offensive strategy, that it would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever work. Martz and Fisher both have strong personalities, and Fisher put up with zero shit from Blake Williams who is a choir boy compared to Martz. There's also the fact that Martz's offenses (post Marshall Faulk) don't feature a run game very much at all.

Maybe people are forgetting about the other dimension of an offense. When Martz was in Detroit, he improved their passing numbers, but that team always ranked at the bottom of the league in rushing. They won 3 games his first year and 7 his second. During that time they had games with 7, 8, and 9 rushing attempts, and even a game with -18 rushing yards once. Yes, I know, we have a bad rushing game too, but two wrongs have never made a right. Maybe he could improve our passing numbers, but without a run game, it doesn't mean squat.

What about his time in San Francisco? They were 22nd in the league in scoring. Granted it was with Shaun Hill, but from what I'm gathering on the internet, it doesn't make a difference who the QB is as long as Martz is the OC. He made Kitna look like John Elway ... right?

There's also the fact that he'll never have the same type of players at his disposal again. That truly was, lightning in a bottle. Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Hakim, Proehl, a great OL, and a cake schedule. Is it even remotely possible that his innovative offense was just something that happened at the right time and in the right place? People know about him now. They know what he can do, and defensive coordinators now know how to attack it.

Honestly guys, I just don't see this materializing at all.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I don't get it either.

Time to move on. It's not happening.

Trust me, I'd rather have an aggressive offense than the polar opposite we have now, but Martz is not the answer.

 

[iced]

Comparing Martz to Blake is not even close, imo.

I never heard about Martz being disrespectful to his fellow coaches and staff; Front office wars were one thing, blake was a complete prick and that helped seal his fate.

Another thing about Martz - critique all you want, the mans got 2 superbowl experiences,1 ring, and man some offenses click with nothing. Detroit, 8-8 with him. First year without him, 0-16

 

[joeybittick]

So, people are already trying to get that train going again? :nono:

 

[Selassie I]

As much as I'm a fan of Martz,,, you are absolutely correct Paul. No way could he be brought in as OC and have success. No way.

I miss Martz. Always will. Sometimes I do try and convince myself that he would be the perfect QB coach/assistant for Sam. I think I heard that P Manning has a couple of QB assistants to prepare him,,, plus his back-up QB has to help in the prep as well. But Martz's personality would never co-exist with Fish's. Too bad that it"s that way... Martz is a Offensive Genius in many ways. Having him as a QB assistant/coach would make most QB's far better in just about every way.

 

[Selassie I]

So, people are already trying to get that train going again? :nono:

I think I've just seen a ghost.

 

[Faceplant]

Man, way to be the voice of reason. Buzz kill.... and I am a Martz guy.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

[joeybittick]

So, people are already trying to get that train going again? :nono:

I think I've just seen a ghost.

Hopefully it's a friendly ghost :sly:

 

[Selassie I]

So, people are already trying to get that train going again? :nono:

I think I've just seen a ghost.

Hopefully it's a friendly ghost :sly:

Not for nothing Brudda...

But you got some splaining to do. :what:

 

[-X-]

Comparing Martz to Blake is not even close, imo.

I never heard about Martz being disrespectful to his fellow coaches and staff; Front office wars were one thing, blake was a complete prick and that helped seal his fate.

Another thing about Martz - critique all you want, the mans got 2 superbowl experiences,1 ring, and man some offenses click with nothing. Detroit, 8-8 with him. First year without him, 0-16

The only thing you know about Blake is that he rubbed people the wrong way. "Total prick" is fan-speak. If he was a total prick, he would have been fired mid-season. Nobody deals with that for very long. And now that he's gone, what appears to be missing from the defense?

But we're getting off track.

I'm not saying Martz is disrespectful. You said that. I said he and Fisher have big personalities with different philosophies, so it wouldn't mesh, IMO. I'm also not critiquing Martz. I was only trying to put his entire coaching resume' in the light. Yes, he's got Super Bowl experiences, but you did nothing to take away from my point about it being with what could amount to 5 or more Hall of Famers. Not pro bowlers. Hall of Famers. And lastly, Detroit never went 8-8 with him. They went 3-13 and then 7-9. They fired EVERYONE after that second season. Not just Martz.

Now, with all that said, let me be clear. There aren't many (if any) offensive coordinators who are as innovative as Martz. I love Mike Martz to death, and appreciate everything he did here as a coordinator. Without him, I don't know that Vermeil gets his ring. All I'm saying is, it's not a good fit. And I explained why I thought as much.

 

[-X-]

As much as I'm a fan of Martz,,, you are absolutely correct Paul. No way could he be brought in as OC and have success. No way.

I miss Martz. Always will. Sometimes I do try and convince myself that he would be the perfect QB coach/assistant for Sam. I think I heard that P Manning has a couple of QB assistants to prepare him,,, plus his back-up QB has to help in the prep as well. But Martz's personality would never co-exist with Fish's. Too bad that it"s that way... Martz is a Offensive Genius in many ways. Having him as a QB assistant/coach would make most QB's far better in just about every way.

Man, if someone could convince Martz to take a QB Coach role here, that would solve everything.

But I won't hold out hope for that. :boohoo:

 

[iced]

Comparing Martz to Blake is not even close, imo.

I never heard about Martz being disrespectful to his fellow coaches and staff; Front office wars were one thing, blake was a complete prick and that helped seal his fate.

Another thing about Martz - critique all you want, the mans got 2 superbowl experiences,1 ring, and man some offenses click with nothing. Detroit, 8-8 with him. First year without him, 0-16

The only thing you know about Blake is that he rubbed people the wrong way. "Total prick" is fan-speak. If he was a total prick, he would have been fired mid-season. Nobody deals with that for very long. And now that he's gone, what appears to be missing from the defense?

That's not fan speak - that's paraphrasing the things that were said about him toward the end of the season, prior to, and around his firing.

I'm not saying Martz is disrespectful. You said that. I said he and Fisher have big personalities with different philosophies, so it wouldn't mesh, IMO. I'm also not critiquing Martz. I was only trying to put his entire coaching resume' in the light. Yes, he's got Super Bowl experiences, but you did nothing to take away from my point about it being with what could amount to 5 or more Hall of Famers. Not pro bowlers. Hall of Famers. And lastly, Detroit never went 8-8 with him. They went 3-13 and then 7-9.

Now, with all that said, let me be clear. There aren't many (if any) offensive coordinators who are as innovative as Martz. I love Mike Martz to death, and appreciate everything he did here as a coordinator. Without him, I don't know that Vermeil gets his ring. All I'm saying is, it's not a good fit. And I explained why I thought as much.

When I said disrespectful about martz I was referring to the fights between him and the FO.

Oh 7-9, my bad, one game off... Still, they went winless without him the next year and was known as the worst team in the league. He didn't have HOF'ers there either - and before you say Calvin johnson, he was a rookie and was also injured that season.

And Vermeil is kind of like fisher'ish to me - stubborn, wants to run the ball and play defense...i think it could be a good fit

 

[CGI_Ram]

And Vermeil is kind of like fisher'ish to me - stubborn, wants to run the ball and play defense...i think it could be a good fit

Interesting comparison... :yessir:

 

[iced]

<a class="postlink" href="http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/02/rams-fire-blake-williams-gregg-williams/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/02/rams- ... -williams/</a>

Michael Silver

According to a high-placed Rams source, linebackers coach Blake Williams has been fired, Y! Sports has learned...Blake Williams, according to the source, was fired in part because of a brusque, tactless style in dealing with colleagues and players...

<a class="postlink" href="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/02/brusque-tactless-style-was-blake-wams-downfall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -downfall/</a>

Billy Mumphrey’s downfall was his unbridled enthusiasm. For Blake Williams, it was the opposite.

Mike Silver of Yahoo! Sports reports that Williams got the heave-ho in St. Louise due to a “brusque, tactless style” when dealing with colleagues and players. Given that he was working in an industry where plenty of guys are brusque and tactless, it’s not easy to stand out.

Williams apparently did.

Some will say that the brusque, tactless apple didn’t fall far from the brusque, tactless tree, given what we now know about his father, Gregg Williams. Indeed, the biggest surprise regarding this news is that the elder Williams’ misadventures in 2012 didn’t prompt the younger Williams to engage in meaningful soul-searching and to implement real changes in his way of doing business.

Not long ago, Blake Williams was regarded as an up-and-coming star in NFL circles. And while he still may get another chance to shine, the apple that is his career has been invaded by a brusque, tactless arrow.

 

[iced]

And Vermeil is kind of like fisher'ish to me - stubborn, wants to run the ball and play defense...i think it could be a good fit

Interesting comparison... :yessir:

Hell we could emulate '99...

hire martz or a offensive coach from the saints, trade for Lesean Mccoy or CJ Spiller, and spend our first round pick on another receiver..

bam, championship :cheese: :rofl: :lmao:

 

[duckhunter]

My takeaway on this talk is this. Sure it's not going to happen. However, there is a lesson for Shotty concerning this discussion if he is open minded.

Part of the problem with these OCs is we don't challenge the deep half of the field early. Yeah, I noticed the two SF deep safeties often, but from Martz' days, fans know you put the threat of the deep ball in the defenders head early. Also throw it to the right receiver and that means Givens deep. Austin maybe, but Quick or Pettis is not playing to their strengths.

Bradford has a great deep arm, limber it up early. Even if it's a wasted play, it serves purposes. Surprising how that knocks the rust off, gets the QBs adrenaline working and the QBs mind thinking about the total field. Why wait till later in the game when you really need the touch on a deep ball to give a QB his first opportunity deep. Just the little things sometimes.

Martz knew this. These other guys well ??????

 

[-X-]

Comparing Martz to Blake is not even close, imo.

I never heard about Martz being disrespectful to his fellow coaches and staff; Front office wars were one thing, blake was a complete prick and that helped seal his fate.

Another thing about Martz - critique all you want, the mans got 2 superbowl experiences,1 ring, and man some offenses click with nothing. Detroit, 8-8 with him. First year without him, 0-16

The only thing you know about Blake is that he rubbed people the wrong way. "Total prick" is fan-speak. If he was a total prick, he would have been fired mid-season. Nobody deals with that for very long. And now that he's gone, what appears to be missing from the defense?

That's not fan speak - that's paraphrasing the things that were said about him toward the end of the season, prior to, and around his firing.

I'm not saying Martz is disrespectful. You said that. I said he and Fisher have big personalities with different philosophies, so it wouldn't mesh, IMO. I'm also not critiquing Martz. I was only trying to put his entire coaching resume' in the light. Yes, he's got Super Bowl experiences, but you did nothing to take away from my point about it being with what could amount to 5 or more Hall of Famers. Not pro bowlers. Hall of Famers. And lastly, Detroit never went 8-8 with him. They went 3-13 and then 7-9.

Now, with all that said, let me be clear. There aren't many (if any) offensive coordinators who are as innovative as Martz. I love Mike Martz to death, and appreciate everything he did here as a coordinator. Without him, I don't know that Vermeil gets his ring. All I'm saying is, it's not a good fit. And I explained why I thought as much.

When I said disrespectful about martz I was referring to the fights between him and the FO.

Oh 7-9, my bad, one game off... Still, they went winless without him the next year and was known as the worst team in the league. He didn't have HOF'ers there either - and before you say Calvin johnson, he was a rookie and was also injured that season.

And Vermeil is kind of like fisher'ish to me - stubborn, wants to run the ball and play defense...i think it could be a good fit

I'm just gonna go ahead and concede that Blake Williams was a dick, because I don't care. It was just a parallel comparison anyway. Martz wasn't Blake. That aside, if Martz was the tide-turner you're making him out to be in Detroit, then why was he gone after two years? And not just him, but everyone. I'm telling you the major complaint was that he didn't run the ball enough, and that came from more than the hierarchy of the Organization. That came from players as well. And Singletary is almost exactly like Fisher philosophically. He had no use for Martz either. See what I'm saying?

I'm not going to say "Calvin Johnson" either, because comparing the Lions offense - in any way shape or form - to the Rams' offense of 1999-2001 is an exercise in futility. I won't even go there. My main point still remains the same. He had it made with the Rams. Everywhere else -- not so much.

 

[HometownBoy]

Same, I love you guys, but sometimes I'm glad you guys aren't the GM.

That thing failed for a reason, it's time to leave that regime in the past. We have nothing to gain by giving Martz the reigns again.

 

[iced]

Same, I love you guys, but sometimes I'm glad you guys aren't the GM.

That thing failed for a reason, it's time to leave that regime in the past. We have nothing to gain by giving Martz the reigns again.

he wouldn't be my first choice

but I wouldn't veto it either

 

[HometownBoy]

Same, I love you guys, but sometimes I'm glad you guys aren't the GM.

That thing failed for a reason, it's time to leave that regime in the past. We have nothing to gain by giving Martz the reigns again.

he wouldn't be my first choice

but I wouldn't veto it either

If Fisher doesn't pan out and the guy we got next can make something happen with Martz, I definitely wouldn't object to him coming back.

But him being the head coach or coming in right now? Disaster waiting to happen. It'd be McDaniels all over again.