Would you want to see Hager get the nod over Laurinaitis next week?

[LACHAMP46]

Seriously? I've seen Ogletree and now Barron mentioned to play the mike. Someone please point out the next time one of these dudes stands up a lead blocker and fills the gap.

Your assuming that there is only one way to get it done at the LB position....for an example, remember our own 3rd & 2 play...We ran the ball with Jared Cook as the "lead" blocker. Some Washington LB shot a gap, and blew up the play by driving Cook into the RBs (Mason?) path...not a large LB, didn't make the tackle...But remained & filled his gap. Gap integrity. It can close lanes.
Now, another point...Size is all relative. 6'3, 245 lbs....6'0, 250 lbs...as long as you get it done....whether it's by shedding the block or slipping around it with speed & quickness. Get to the play...Lot's of new breed LB's are smallish but fly around like Tree...It's time we utilize this guy...We didn't pay Ayers all that money to sit on the bench. He's an every down player....We shouldn't have used 2 draft picks and limit Barron plays & snaps. He's NOT a LB...especially vs the run...Play him at safety, and get the walking missed tackler Rodney McLeod off the damn field...
Somebody says that one player doesn't make a difference....WRONG!!!!! So Wrong....And you replace these 2...McLeod & JL55...you'd see a HUGE improvement in overall production...especially against the RUN!

 

[ChrisW]

McLeod & JL55

You want to replace these two, but with who exactly? Which FS on our roster has ANY starting experience? Want to throw Barron out there for McLeod? How about Cody Davis? Nah, no thanks on that one.

Now JL. It's bittersweet to think about replacing him. He's been the rock of the defense for so long now, and has been among the most durable players in the NFL. He is starting to lose it though. Let him get the tackle record then sit him. give him a week or 2 of rest and see what we have with Hager. That's what I'd do. No Ogletree at the mike, not Barron either. Remember that Hager was one of the fastest LBers in the draft this year. He can cover sideline to sideline.

edit: We also saw Hager stone cold stop people in the gap this year during the preseason. I think he has what it takes to stuff the gap. Combine that with his speed, and we could probably have the fastest LBers in the NFL with Tree and Hager.

 

[RaminExile]

A rookie MLB to replace our defensive signal caller? Thats very risky IMO. We need to draft his long term replacement and have him sit and learn the D and also learn the offensive game in the NFL so he can diagnose and direct the D like Lauranaitis does before he comes in to replace him.

Unfortunately we might not have that guy on the roster yet - so its another couple of years of watching JL55 get washed out and dominated by centers and fullbacks and them run it up the gut against what should be a top class D for 150 yards a game.

 

[DaveFan'51]

It's tough when a favorite player loses a step....I never could admit when Jack Youngblood slowed down...Tommy Polley...Even the great Marshall Faulk...I sure wanted to see more SJ#39 his rookie year.

JL55 has been in decline for at least 3 years....I only noticed it in 2012 because of the incredibly high ypc averages opponents put up against what I thought should be an outstanding defense...And he shouldn't be REPLACED by a rookie....He should switch positions with Ogletree....Ayers needs to stay on the field more...The snaps need to go to him. JL55 needs to go to SLB, but removed in passing situations....No, he's not the entire problem, just one of them. I'll wait for a db/missed tackle thread to go after McLeod...who is actually a bigger concern than JL55. Check out this (CLICK ME) below:

• St. Louis Rams vs. Washington: Snap Counts, Playing Time And Personnel Analysis
  By 3k
  
  @3k_ on Sep 21, 2015, 6:18p 9
  
  
  
  
  Matt Hazlett/Getty Images
  The Rams made some minor adjustments to their personnel from Week 1 to yesterday's 24-10 loss to Washington.
  
  Offense
  Rodger Saffold T 52 100.00%
  Rob Havenstein T 52 100.00%
  Jamon Brown G 52 100.00%
  Tim Barnes C 52 100.00%
  Nick Foles QB 52 100.00%
  Greg Robinson T 52 100.00%
  Kenny Britt WR 48 92.31%
  Stedman Bailey WR 39 75.00%
  Tavon Austin WR 39 75.00%
  Jared Cook TE 37 71.15%
  Tre Mason RB 28 53.85%
  Lance Kendricks TE 23 44.23%
  Benny Cunningham RB 22 42.31%
  Chris Givens WR 16 30.77%
  Cory Harkey TE 8 15.38%
  The Stedman Bailey bump was huge; Steddy played just 31.67% of snaps in Week 1 compared to three-quarters of the snaps yesterday.
  
  Tre Mason's return split time between he and Benny Cunningham, though you have to wonder how obviously things were being telegraphed between the two. Despite 28 plays for Mason to Cunningham's 22, Mason had seven rushes to just one for Cunningham. That means 21 of Benny's plays were passes...
  
  And Cory Harkey's time got halved as well. The game got away from the running strategy, but this was still something I didn't expect.
  
  Defense
  T.J. McDonald SS 72 100.00%
  Rodney McLeod FS 72 100.00%
  Alec Ogletree LB 71 98.61%
  James Laurinaitis LB 71 98.61%
  Trumaine Johnson CB 68 94.44%
  Janoris Jenkins CB 63 87.50%
  Robert Quinn DE 58 80.56%
  Aaron Donald DT 57 79.17%
  Michael Brockers DT 52 72.22%
  Chris Long DE 50 69.44%
  William Hayes DE 36 50.00%
  Akeem Ayers LB 27 37.50%
  LaMarcus Joyner CB 25 34.72%
  Mark Barron SS 24 33.33%
  Ethan Westbrooks DT 17 23.61%
  Nick Fairley DT 15 20.83%
  Marcus Roberson GB 13 18.06%
  Cameron Lynch LB 1 1.39%
  It's hard not to point to the Rams' lack of 4-3 usage as a reason Washington came out eager to attack with the run. Even though Akeem Ayers' usage tripled to counter the run and LaMarcus Joyner's PT halved, it clearly wasn't sufficient.
  
  Trumaine Johnson's ability to play a full game adjusted things as well for Joyner and CB Marcus Roberson.
  
  Special Teams
  Daren Bates LB 28 93.33%
  Cameron Lynch LB 23 76.67%
  Maurice Alexander SS 23 76.67%
  Bradley Marquez WR 23 76.67%
  Bryce Hager LB 23 76.67%
  Isaiah Pead RB 20 66.67%
  Cory Harkey TE 17 56.67%
  Benny Cunningham RB 15 50.00%
  Jake McQuaide LS 12 40.00%
  Johnny Hekker P 12 40.00%
  Marcus Roberson GB 8 26.67%
  Stedman Bailey WR 7 23.33%
  Demetrius Rhaney C 7 23.33%
  Garrett Reynolds G 7 23.33%
  Tavon Austin WR 6 20.00%
  T.J. McDonald SS 6 20.00%
  Rodney McLeod FS 6 20.00%
  Janoris Jenkins CB 6 20.00%
  LaMarcus Joyner CB 6 20.00%
  Robert Quinn DE 5 16.67%
  Aaron Donald DT 5 16.67%
  Michael Brockers DT 5 16.67%
  Chris Long DE 5 16.67%
  William Hayes DE 5 16.67%
  Greg Zuerlein K 5 16.67%
  Trumaine Johnson CB 4 13.33%
  Mark Barron SS 3 10.00%
  Rodger Saffold T 2 6.67%
  Rob Havenstein T 2 6.67%
  Jamon Brown G 2 6.67%
  Lance Kendricks TE 2 6.67%
  Andrew Donnal T 2 6.67%
  You can see why Daren Bates is so crucial to this team. It's oversimplifying, but the Tyler Lockette punt return in Week 1 vs. the clean coverage (and that's probably understating it -- they were damn good) in Week 2 isn't entirely attributable to Bates...but it's not unrelated.
  
  Shout out to the 2015 UDFAs in Cameron Lynch, Bryce Hager and Bradley Marquez. I was a Lynch and Marquez fan, but Hager's certainly earned his stripes.
  
  Something important to look ahead for, and for your Saturday TSTers to keep in mind: Isaiah Pead. He's in his contract year, and there's just no way he's around in the offseason in four months. Who fills in for him in special teams? Do the Rams need another running back? Even if the answer's no, we all realize Jeff Fisher is going to spend a pick in the first three rounds on one, right? You thought Jeff Fisher might not be around next year? What are these "standards" you have and how do they apply?
  
  Drop your snap counts reactions in the comments.

Basically, it's position, with plays, and percentage of plays....I'd like to see if Hagar can play...but not this year...But Ayers, we KNOW he can play...Barron...WE KNOW he can play....these two, while removing McLeod, and shifting JL55's responsibility to primarily run defense, could make an immediate impact.

Thanks for posting these snap count!
But I just don't have the Football IQ to know if they tell us anything two weeks into the season!
Personally I thought Westbrooks was in their too much, But IDK! JMHO

 

[shovelpass]

It's truly a shame that Jo-Lonn wasn't the the player we thought he was. He would've been the perfect stop-gap until next year; whether by draft, FA, or someone steps up. He knows the defense, knows the calls, good run defender, good against blocks, aggressive tackler, vocal/emotional leader, instinctive player, coverage?.

I don't think anyone is ready to unseat him just yet, though Ogletree in the middle is somewhat intriguing. Maybe, just maybe by mid-season, I think it's too soon to throw a rookie in a complex scheme like Williams'. Though TJ has been learning the calls, so TJ could be the captain/caller and have Hager/etc./? just lineup and play. It's tough, I don't like being down on anybody in Horns, but I'm all for an upgrade IF it's needed. I think he starts the rest of the season, if Fisher didn't bench Wells after his play last year, I cannot see him benching JL. Next year we'll have a new starter.

 

[RAGRam]

James Laurinaitis... official ROD redheaded stepchild of the 2015 season.

I thought that was Robinson? I remember a point in Sunday's game where he blew his guy of the ball on 2 consecutive runs, but other guys on the line messed up, come on the game thread and first comment I see is along the lines of "Robinson sucks". Some people just need to hate/scapegoat someone.

 

[fancents86]

I love JL55, but it doesn't hurt to see who you have to step in. I don't advocate replacing JL but maybe splitting reps with Hager to see what you have. Hager did great in preseason, but that was preseason.

 

[LACHAMP46]

You want to replace these two, but with who exactly?

I'm giving JL55's role to Ogletree....He'll be on the field as a SLB and be used like Ayers...Ayers will remain on the field with Tree....So same players, slightly different roles. I really like Hagar...Like a bunch...I loved the way he played in preseason....If JL is still a liability in the new role, move either Bates or Hagar on the field with Tree & Ayers....The Barron at LB experiment should be over...OVER.
Barron is a safety....he can play free but excels as a strong safety....Move Barron in the game for 90% of the defensive snaps, our team gets better immediately...Not a week, not a month, but that GAME! Make TJ the primary deep safety...he's ready...He's trained for this roll his entire life. They have his dad listed as a SS, but I remember big Timmy playing deep, and making plays....
A lot of posters seem to think we have a lot to lose by moving better athletes on the field...check our numbers, there is no way this defense could have worse breakdowns.

 

[VinnyRam]

I thought that was Robinson? I remember a point in Sunday's game where he blew his guy of the ball on 2 consecutive runs, but other guys on the line messed up, come on the game thread and first comment I see is along the lines of "Robinson sucks". Some people just need to hate/scapegoat someone.

Welcome to a sports forum. Fans get to talk about who they think the problems are and state opinions and what they would do..... If you don't think JL55 is a problem, then don't read it---but while Robinson did have some nice run blocks he sure is struggling on pass protect.

 

[RAGRam]

Welcome to a sports forum. Fans get to talk about who they think the problems are and state opinions and what they would do..... If you don't think JL55 is a problem, then don't read it---but while Robinson did have some nice run blocks he sure is struggling on pass protect.

I love reading people's opinions, no matter how wrong they are, some of the most entertaining comments are those which are just bat shit crazy.

 

[BonifayRam]

I have spoken up for many yrs for JL . My previous posts over the yrs have always been positive. There is nothing positive about JL's play last week. I think he is worn out, worn down & in decline. Our DC places major weight on JL shoulders. JL while exceptionally smart & knowledgeable lacks speed & power to make an impact in this 2015 Ram defense. If the DL does not get the job done like against the Seahawks....then its up to JL to make the play....he will mostly fail when the DL is not winning.

I am not advocating his replacement @ this time. If It were up to me I would be looking for a solution though....... I would look to finally cut down on his extra long playing time.

Our DC removes our biggest LB'er run defender SSLB Ayers real fast to insert either much smaller defenders like SS Barron or Nickle Joyner. Thus placing more heavy weight on the remaining LB's (JL & Tree) to stop the run:eek:. The Skins took full advantage of this like no other team in a while.

I would look to pull JL when Gregg has this desire to place smaller defenders on the field, thus leaving . SSLB'er Ayers & Ogletree on the field. Ayers has played inside LB'er in the NFL before. He is faster, stronger & bigger ....he might offer a fix this season.

I will say this that Rookies Cameron Lynch & Bryce Hager could be JL future replacement. It may come earlier than we think if we see many more games from JL.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I think the defense is missing a stronger presence in at the MLB spot. I like Laurinitis as a leader and playcaller but he just has never been good at stuffing the run. All the way back to Ohio State he was not a physical presence in the run game. He was always very good in pass coverage and staying back and reacting. Imposing his will? No.

I think they need a better MLB to complete the defense. But I don't think any of us can say Hager is the guy. I would like to see the Rams give him a chance though. Give him some snaps or let him play a full series here and there. Bring it along slowly before you just decide.

Overall I think JL is the guy for at least this season. That Bobby Wagner gaffe looks like a huge one on days like this past Sunday against Washington.

 

[Irish]

The run a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel, which is amazing to me.

It makes WAY more sense to me to run:

LE- Fairley
NT- Brockers
RE- Donald
(Really, any combination of these guys at any position, plus Westbrooks)

LOLB- Long
LILB- JL
RILB- Ogletree
ROLB- Quinn

If you want to run a 4-3, you need a dominant, thumping MLB, and while JL is serviceable (at his best, he is a liability at his worst), he isn't a Luke Kuechly, Clay Matthews, or Bobby Wagner, someone who can singlehandedly dominate an offensive game plan and force a team to play around them.

Too often we get attached to the best of the worst players on crappy teams. I experienced it with the Blues. We get attached to David Perron and TJ Oshie and Patrik Berglund because they were there when the team stunk to high heaven, but now that the Blues are really good, these guys need to get surplussed. It is possible to appreciate the service that a guy provided while this team was in the doldrums and still recognize that when you start to compare him against actual talent, he comes up woefully short.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Ayers has played inside LB'er in the NFL before. He is faster, stronger & bigger ....he might offer a fix this season.

If Williams can dumb down the playbook, I'd be all for it...Or if Ayers knows the playbook...Either way, he and Ogletree need to be on the field....I have no doubt these two could change the run defense Boni...

If you want to run a 4-3, you need a dominant, thumping MLB

The main point I agree with....scared of your 3/4 defense tho...LOL Jk...try anything to get off the field on 3rd down...There is NO WAY the Skins offense is that good. O-Line may be dominant, but the actual pieces shouldn't look that good unless this defense is weak.

 

[GabesHorn]

It's truly a shame that Jo-Lonn wasn't the the player we thought he was. He would've been the perfect stop-gap until next year; whether by draft, FA, or someone steps up. He knows the defense, knows the calls, good run defender, good against blocks, aggressive tackler, vocal/emotional leader, instinctive player, coverage?.

I don't think anyone is ready to unseat him just yet, though Ogletree in the middle is somewhat intriguing. Maybe, just maybe by mid-season, I think it's too soon to throw a rookie in a complex scheme like Williams'. Though TJ has been learning the calls, so TJ could be the captain/caller and have Hager/etc./? just lineup and play. It's tough, I don't like being down on anybody in Horns, but I'm all for an upgrade IF it's needed. I think he starts the rest of the season, if Fisher didn't bench Wells after his play last year, I cannot see him benching JL. Next year we'll have a new starter.

I make this post with MUCH fear as I was Torched in August for mentioning replacing JL. The two ILB's I remember going in 2ND round were the much smaller but super fast sideline to sideline guys in Perryman of Miami and Kendricks of UCLA and led Pac 12 in tackles. Not sure either would have been a fit for us buy Both have giant highlight reels taking down much bigger men with ease alone!

Fisher has said before McDonald can make all the "D" calls. Of course we would HAVE to be prepared for such a case as IF JL got dinged. Troy P. of the steelers made their calls for years. Not only LB's can do it.Love how Hager has shown as a Friend of Fisher' and had a decent PS leading us in tackles against other teams seconds and below.

Ayers is our best shot if we are to ever give JL a rest. I don't think we even consider it unless games like the skins repeat themselves. JL had a very GOOD game against the shehags so I don't think its even being considered. 3 guys we wearing the "C" on their chest had the 3 lowest ratings on "O" and "D" this last game. Foles played scared and refused to roll to his left when the pocket and protection dictated that. He was hearing FOOTSTEPS even when we had time to wait and look downfield for a 1st down like he did the week before. Foles has seen the skins more than anyone and he knows that field too. I was shocked.

The skins used Aaron Donalds speed and penatration against us as they used that to rn right by him and would chop block him and Quinn also and I only saw one holding call on Quinn bringing back another long run. They had us gameplanned to a "T". They knew about our LB coverage against TE's. I saw Bobby Wagner from shegals bring down big Lacy all by himself. We don't have any LB that can make tackles like that. I don't see JL's replacement on our team yet. Maybe with tons of weightroom Hager gets stronger. I see us with 2 second rounders to find that guy. This years FA'cy will be spent signing our own as so many guys are coming due at once. Unless they all play themselves out of jobs.

Lets see what JL and AO do against a bigtime passing team. That is more than Cousins should have done. We are famous for making folks look better than they ever will be. Cousins was horrible in PS .
I'm sure lots of guys had bad filmroom days this week unless the players coach Fisher did'nt have them watch their mistakes. We need a tougher approach in practice and Mason was'nt ready for game speed and not testing him in practice was on Fisher. We need to be in pads more than we are. I know Fisher is dreadfull of injuries as he should well be. We've had more than our share over the years.

I posted before the skins game about playing a wounded animal. They were still mad about last years captains sent out before the game and the shutout and they knew we have a rep for taking teams lightly when we should'nt. They did'nt want to be 0-2 as they really played the phins tough and should have won that game. The Jags finished the job on the phins over confidence. Jags will be another tough game for others. Falcons new coach is bringing the attitude I want the RAMS to play like. The shehags DC Dan Quinn was a great hire and many of their losing ways will be crushed.

I see Fisher with us till possibly "17" so saying anything negative is a waste period. I do have a real life seperate from football. Especially mentally. You can't allow yourselves to let this game ruin your life,health and it will if you let it. Like @X said even if you spend tons of money on our group as I have you have to be able to seperate so your health is'nt effected. My wives brother was told he has Leukemia yesterday. 146 Americans are told that everyday. So enjoy what you can while you can and never let it affect your health in any way. We have a chance to do to the steelers what the skins did to us. Maybe this is our Broncos game from last season. One thing: It will be an up and down season so prepare as we saw many many upsets this last week in Pro's and college.

NO INJURIES!!!

 

[12intheBox]

@Irish I'm not sure Brockers is a good fit for the nose in a 3-4 - and thats really the key position. Brockers would be a good looking end in the 3-4 - but not so sure that he can handle that nose - believe it or not - he might not be big enough. Perhaps even more problematic is putting Long and Quinn at OLB - both are probably athletic enough to handle it - but I want Quinn rushing the passer on every passing down possible - not dropping into coverage here and there.

In the end - I still think this team is better suited as a 4-3 for now.

 

[RamzFanz]

I'm JL's biggest fan, but re-watching this game made me cringe a little.
Shedding blocks and diagnosing the play wasn't his strong suit on Sunday.

^^^This.

I think as a core player, he's going to be tough to replace this season. They need a plan B and they need to see if they can get JL fired up somehow. I might spell JL if a game gets out of hand either direction and see what we have. I would be on the sidelines asking Hager and Lynch what they would be calling every play to see if they are up to it or at least in the film room.

Or, as others have said, pass those duties off to someone else and just see what we have as replacements. It could fire up JL and we need to know in case of an injury to JL anyways.

The pass rush depends on the MLB stopping the run. It's a must produce position.

 

[den-the-coach]

To actually answer the thread...Yes I would start Bryce Hager because IMO, he's faster than JL from sideline to sideline and the Rams had no trouble with the plodding Morris, but the quicker Matt Jones they were not there in time to stop him and IMO Hager offers more from that perspective.

 

[Irish]

@Irish I'm not sure Brockers is a good fit for the nose in a 3-4 - and thats really the key position. Brockers would be a good looking end in the 3-4 - but not so sure that he can handle that nose - believe it or not - he might not be big enough. Perhaps even more problematic is putting Long and Quinn at OLB - both are probably athletic enough to handle it - but I want Quinn rushing the passer on every passing down possible - not dropping into coverage here and there.

In the end - I still think this team is better suited as a 4-3 for now.

I don't think James Harrison, Aldon Smith, Justin Houston, or Von Miller have any difficulty playing the position, and I think Quinn is every bit as good as those guys.

On the NT, I think Donald could be a hall of famer lining up over the center on every play

 

[12intheBox]

I don't think James Harrison, Aldon Smith, Justin Houston, or Von Miller have any difficulty playing the position, and I think Quinn is every bit as good as those guys.

On the NT, I think Donald could be a hall of famer lining up over the center on every play

At first glance I would say Donald isn't nearly big enough - but then I'd be doubting Donald which is just dumb in and of itself.

And I don't mean that Quinn couldn't - but you make a good point - those guys you named sure have plenty of pass rush opportunities.