Would you have kept Marvin Lewis?

[blackbart]

@Rainram I agree with pretty much everything you said. Most importantly the Rams had far too many holes to fill when Bradford was supposed to be the long term solution at QB. There was no way they could afford to spend a 1 or 2 on a guy to develop. Still wish we had gone with Matthews in stead of Grob but LT was definitely a need with a couple of good players available at 2 and I would not give away Donald for anyone. I'm completely fine with not taking one of the other guys with a reach in round one this year I'll take Gurley.

Let's face it they have had some shitty luck with injuries that have affected their ability to build a winner. Some people think that is just an excuse but I'm not buying that, pick you analogy you can get it done with second level players at half of your starting positions.

I don't watch enough college ball to have a good idea about this coming season and if there is someone worth an RGIII deal. I think there are still too many other positions that need to be reloaded and we don't know if Mannion can be a guy to at least get us through the next couple of years.

@FRO I don't think we can say Fisher hand picked Foles, I'm srure there are probably 5 or 6 other guys he would have taken if he had his pick. Foles was the best deal available that gave them a chance and dumped Bradford's salary. Is he really as bad as he has shown the last 6 games? Can he be as good as he was in the 1st game? Is he too far gone after taking a beating?

I don't see Fisher getting canned before his deal is completed. Does a new OC make things better? 3rd one in 3 years? Can be much worse.

 

[blackbart]

Well, it was 10-12-1 for Sam and that's really not close to 13-9

Must be new math skills if you don't think those records are close. Without going back and analyzer individual games I'll bet you could find games in each record that could have easily gone the other way.

 

[drasconis]

Must be new math skills if you don't think those records are close. Without going back and analyzer individual games I'll bet you could find games in each record that could have easily gone the other way.

not really one is solidly under .500 at .457 (7.3 wins a season) the other is nicely over .500 at .591 (9.5 wins a season). Translating that to coaches it is Jim Haslett/Joe Philbin v Holgrem/Reid.

 

[dieterbrock]

Must be new math skills if you don't think those records are close. Without going back and analyzer individual games I'll bet you could find games in each record that could have easily gone the other way.

Just basic math. One guy is well over .500 the other below it.
Kind of apples to oranges

 

[drasconis]

I don't think we can say Fisher hand picked Foles, I'm sure there are probably 5 or 6 other guys he would have taken if he had his pick. Foles was the best deal available that gave them a chance and dumped Bradford's salary.

I might agree if they hadn't extended his contract so quickly. That did not happen without JF being solidly on board. JF clearly thought Foles was his guy and the solution or else you don't extend him at that point.

 

[blackbart]

I might agree if they hadn't extended his contract so quickly. That did not happen without JF being solidly on board. JF clearly thought Foles was his guy and the solution or else you don't extend him at that point.

I thought it was a bad decision but I don't think that was solely a Fisher decision.

 

[blackbart]

not really one is solidly under .500 at .457 (7.3 wins a season) the other is nicely over .500 at .591 (9.5 wins a season). Translating that to coaches it is Jim Haslett/Joe Philbin v Holgrem/Reid.

alm:

 

[Athos]

I just don't see any good reason to dump Fisher now. Does he need to make changes? Yes there are still problems to be fixed. First and foremost the O Line. We have been saying it for years and this year they STARTED making that move. Dumping him now means another rebuilding period and 3 or 4 more years of mediocrity at best.

What it Fisher's entire coaching career leads you to believe Fisher knows what he's doing on offense, will give up control of personnel and gameday offensive strategy... never mind that 6 winnings seasons in 21 coaching years, no season above .500 since 2008, all while not having McNair bailing out his awful offensive teams week in and week out anymore.

BOOM! That was very rational, but people these days don't believe in being rational.

Are you naive enough to think Fisher staying is going to play THAT big a part in our D staying together? Already looks like JJ is tired of this shit show on offense. Maybe there are other guys on the team that are gonna wanna either get paid or go to a contender. May even do it for less money after all the losing they've been apart of. D isn't going to stick around for the long haul with they way our top players play because teams will throw money at em and we only have so much roster space.

Not everyone is JL55 and CL. Hell, maybe even those guys wish they'd moved on to a different team by now. I'd understand it if secretly, deep down, they really wonder about it sometimes.

The funniest thing about fishers drafts is that he gets too cute in the later rounds. Think about this. How many of us wanted Keenan Allen at the end of the first, alshon Jeffery at 33 instead of quick, this offensive tackle or that Guard? They were common sense picks to us that fisher overlooked because he thought that he had his guys.

Yea. Allen was a 1st round or top top 2nd round WR that year imo. Elite route runner. Bummer not to pick him up on basically on a flier in the 3rd. Big boom pick. Solid floor.

 

[FRO]

@Rainram I agree with pretty much everything you said. Most importantly the Rams had far too many holes to fill when Bradford was supposed to be the long term solution at QB. There was no way they could afford to spend a 1 or 2 on a guy to develop. Still wish we had gone with Matthews in stead of Grob but LT was definitely a need with a couple of good players available at 2 and I would not give away Donald for anyone. I'm completely fine with not taking one of the other guys with a reach in round one this year I'll take Gurley.

Let's face it they have had some crappy luck with injuries that have affected their ability to build a winner. Some people think that is just an excuse but I'm not buying that, pick you analogy you can get it done with second level players at half of your starting positions.

I don't watch enough college ball to have a good idea about this coming season and if there is someone worth an RGIII deal. I think there are still too many other positions that need to be reloaded and we don't know if Mannion can be a guy to at least get us through the next couple of years.

@FRO I don't think we can say Fisher hand picked Foles, I'm srure there are probably 5 or 6 other guys he would have taken if he had his pick. Foles was the best deal available that gave them a chance and dumped Bradford's salary. Is he really as bad as he has shown the last 6 games? Can he be as good as he was in the 1st game? Is he too far gone after taking a beating?

I don't see Fisher getting canned before his deal is completed. Does a new OC make things better? 3rd one in 3 years? Can be much worse.

I see Kroenke sticking with Fisher. The question is should he. I think in 4 years you need one winning season.

 

[blackbart]

What it Fisher's entire coaching career leads you to believe Fisher knows what he's doing on offense, will give up control of personnel and gameday offensive strategy... never mind that 6 winnings seasons in 21 coaching years, no season above .500 since 2008, all while not having McNair bailing out his awful offensive teams week in and week out anymore.

In all those years he had success when he had a quality QB that was healthy and a stud RB and Defense. Is that right? And some of those wins came with O'Donnel and Collins so not great QBs just quality guys. What that tells me is that when he has quality guys that are healthy his system works.

He's got 2 of the 3 in place now.

Can Mannion be that piece to get over the hump? Can we get a Collins in here for a year? Is that Foles if our o line doesn't fall apart and get him battered QB syndrome?

 

[markstewart67]

If Fisher leaves does Greg Williams go with him??

 

[RamFan503]

That's an 11-5 record @RamFan503 not averaging 11.5 points per game.

Right - you DID say as a Rams coach - right? So being that he hasn't gotten there yet, he'd have to stay on as coach for him to reach your milestone and then you'd keep him on - right? Obviously you have a lot of faith in the man then. Just sayin'.

 

[HometownBoy]

If Fisher leaves does Greg Williams go with him??

Even if he does, why does that immediately mean our D is going to somehow be worse off because of it?

The Ravens are long removed from Brian Billick and funnily enough, the man we're talking about right now, Marvin Lewis and their stellar 2000s defense. Went through a whole laundry list of DCs, with such notable names as Rex Ryan, Chuck Pagano and Mike Nolan and even a head coaching change in 2008.

All that and still, barring 2007, they were always in the top 15 of defenses and they didn't lose that until Their star players started dropping like flies or retiring. What precedence is there that our D will magically just cease because Fisher and Williams left?

 

[dieterbrock]

Even if he does, why does that immediately mean our D is going to somehow be worse off because of it?

The Ravens were long removed from Brian Billick and funnily enough, the man we're talking about right now, Marvin Lewis. Went through a whole laundry list of DCs, with such notable names as Rex Ryan, Chuck Pagano and Mike Nolan and even a head coaching change in 2008.

All that and still, barring 2007, they were always in the top 15 of defenses and they didn't lose that until Their star players started dropping like flies or retiring. What precedence is there that our D will magically just cease because Fisher and Williams left?

Right. *If* Fisher/Williams were to leave, they aint taking Quinn and Donald with em

 

[SixthGauge]

In all those years he had success when he had a quality QB that was healthy and a stud RB and Defense. Is that right? And some of those wins came with O'Donnel and Collins so not great QBs just quality guys. What that tells me is that when he has quality guys that are healthy his system works.

He's got 2 of the 3 in place now.

Can Mannion be that piece to get over the hump? Can we get a Collins in here for a year? Is that Foles if our o line doesn't fall apart and get him battered QB syndrome?

The year the Titans went 13-3 with Kerry Collins, look at his stat line compared to Nick Foles this season. The only glaring difference is the TD to INT ratio. Nick Foles threw 7 of his interceptions in 2 games, the one game we really had no chance winning (CIN) but his interceptions were the difference in the other game (GB). If you take that in to account, the interceptions aren't the reason we've lost the 6 other games.

Our offense averages 16.9 PPG and our defense gives up 20.9 PPG on average. That's a 4 point difference we have to make up, just to break even. Do you really think a Kerry Collins is worth 4 pts more per game (which still is only good for 8-8)?

For a comparison, Dallas has averaged 21.5 PPG with Romo and 17 PPG without Romo, a difference of 4.5 pts. Kerry Collins is no Tony Romo.

 

[blackbart]

The year the Titans went 13-3 with Kerry Collins, look at his stat line compared to Nick Foles this season. The only glaring difference is the TD to INT ratio. Nick Foles threw 7 of his interceptions in 2 games, the one game we really had no chance winning (CIN) but his interceptions were the difference in the other game (GB). If you take that in to account, the interceptions aren't the reason we've lost the 6 other games.

Our offense averages 16.9 PPG and our defense gives up 20.9 PPG on average. That's a 4 point difference we have to make up, just to break even. Do you really think a Kerry Collins is worth 4 pts more per game (which still is only good for 8-8)?

For a comparison, Dallas has averaged 21.5 PPG with Romo and 17 PPG without Romo, a difference of 4.5 pts. Kerry Collins is no Tony Romo.

The interception Foles threw at the end of the half was the difference in the game, going in to half down 3 would have allowed the running game to still be relevant. Follow that with the pick 6 for the nail in the coffin and Foles is not good enough right now to win in the NFL. He may have an injury or maybe he is just beaten down to the point where he can't perform, whatever the case he is hurting the team more than helping.

FWIW 20.9 is all scores not just defensive

 

[SixthGauge]

A quarterback is going to throw interceptions, and some of them are going to be at crucial times. I was just pointing out that 7 out of 9 came in 2 games. Kerry Collins also threw interceptions in 2008, some that I'm sure cost them games.

My argument:

We are not a quarterback, who completes 58.3% of his passes and averages 167.2 yard per game, away from being playoff contenders. - Kerry Collins 2008.

 

[blackbart]

A quarterback is going to throw interceptions, and some of them are going to be at crucial times. I was just pointing out that 7 out of 9 came in 2 games. Kerry Collins also threw interceptions in 2008, some that I'm sure cost them games.

My argument:

We are not a quarterback, who completes 58.3% of his passes and averages 167.2 yard per game, away from being playoff contenders. - Kerry Collins 2008.

That QB's record (if there is such a thing) was 12-3, they had a great defense and a solid RB and average at best WR/TEs. My argument is that Fisher can win and has won with that kind of team

 

[snackdaddy]

Yeah, that Cincy parallel is coming up a lot lately. And it's valid.
They took numerous shots at building a good offense though, all the way back to Ocho Cinco and Houshyourmama.
We just need a stud WR and a decent QB and Fisher's fortunes will turn as well.

When was the last time Fisher acquired a stud WR and decent QB? Thats not his M.O. He prefers a stud RB and power line. IIRC, his comment when they drafted all those linemen "We got our road graders". Thats what he wants. Power running and solid defense. He failed to acknowledge how important the QB and WR's are too.

 

[iamme33]

I'm all for finding the next great head coach, but keep in mind, there are much worse coaches than Fisher. Just look back to the two previous regimes we had. . . .

if only we had kept those two previous regimes for 8 years