Would the Sam Bradford debate be different if the Fisher/Snead regime drafted him?

[Rmfnlt]

I wanted Suh for one reason only:
I felt like the The Rams offense was getting old and less talented.
Seemed to me that putting Bradford in that decaying offense might get him off on the wrong foot.
As much as Shurmur's plan for Bradford (safe plays) drove some batty, it was the best plan, given the talent on that offense at the time.
And? OROY... so, kind of worked out.

But then came McDaniels. To me, he really set Bradford back. He (McDaniels) didn't seem to grasp what he had for talent on that offense and, instead, tried for force square pegs into round holes.
It resulted in Bradford getting that ankle strain and having a pretty bad year.

Then, of course, Bradford started all over again.

Spags/Devaney tried to build the weapons for Bradford, but it always seemed to fizzle (had Clayton, then gone... had Lloyd, then gone... Amendola always got hurt...draft picks never really emerged, etc.)

Fisher/Snead have also tried to provide Bradford with weapons. Look at all the recieving draft picks and free agent pick up). Still... only middling success (thus far).

It's year three under Fisher/Schott. If Bradford doesn't make a nice forward leap, Spags/Devaney/Fisher/Snead should all be held accountable, in my opinion.

Just as a sidenote: Granted, Spags played very conservative ("not to lose")... but Jeff Fisher is also known as a very conservative coach. If things go this year as we think they will (heavier run, stout defense), we may find oursleves in a lot of situations where Fisher plays "not to lose". Neither Spags... nor Shurmur... nor Fisher... not Schottenheimer will ever be confused with Mike Martz.

 

[dieterbrock]

2011 was a disaster that any organization should have foreseen. You don't put in a new offense with all the strike nonsense going on. Especially with a second year QB with very limited weapons.
.

Not sure thats completley fair. Shurmer got the HC gig and the Rams hired McDaniels in January. So I dont know which would have been worse, running with McD's offense that they at least unffoicialy started working with or having McD come aboard an OC an offense that wasnt his...

 

[FRO]

I think a big problem in 2011 was not hiring a QB coach. You had a second year QB. Those guys need to developed.

 

[OnceARam]

All the matters is W's and L's.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

Reality is subjective.

Without getting into a philosophical debate, an incomplete pass is an incomplete pass. That is not subjective. What you choose to think about that incomplete pass is completely subjective.

But it is still an incomplete pass.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

It's year three under Fisher/Schott. If Bradford doesn't make a nice forward leap, Spags/Devaney/Fisher/Snead should all be held accountable, in my opinion.

But not Bradford?

At what point does Sam need to held accountable? Never?

 

[Rmfnlt]

But not Bradford?

At what point does Sam need to held accountable? Never?

In my eyes? This year. He's been given most everything he needs to be successful.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

In my eyes? This year. He's been given most everything he needs to be successful.

I agree. I think this is Sam's year to break out.

I don't need gaudy Peyton Manning like numbers (but I wouldn't complain...), I think he can be a top tier QB - a clear difference maker. Now is the time!

 

[Rambitious1]

I think Sam would be much further along.
Mostly because the talent around him would have been much better.

 

[Irish]

Sam will always be unfairly judged based on him being the final bonus baby. That albatross of a contract is his legacy, which is completely unfair to him.

 

[jrry32]

Without getting into a philosophical debate, an incomplete pass is an incomplete pass. That is not subjective. What you choose to think about that incomplete pass is completely subjective.

But it is still an incomplete pass.

That might apply if we were discussing concrete facts. But we're not. This is all opinion.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

That might apply if we were discussing concrete facts. But we're not. This is all opinion.

Sam Bradford's 2012 stats are all opinion? What you think of them is opinion. The stats are facts.

 

[Ram_Rally]

I hope you are correct about Sam this year - it could be his breakout season.

If you were okay with Sam's 2012 season statistically:

24th in the NFL in completion percentage at 59.5%
26th in the NFL in YPA at 6.7
21st in the NFL in QB rating at 82.6
15th in the NFL in yards passing at 3,702

Then I submit you have pretty low standards.

Of those I am least concerned about the passing yards - if he were to get that yardage this year but with a completion percentage over 62, a YPA in the mid 7's, and a QB rating over 90 I would be pleased!

The way I see it, sam has only played 2 full seasons as a starter. So his 2012 season was more of a showing that he is capable of great things once he really settles In as opposed to him plateauing at mediocrity

 

[LazyWinker]

Randall Cobb rookie year: 25 receptions, 375 yards, 1 TD; 2 rushes, 5 yards, 0 TD

Tavon Austin rookie year: 40 receptions, 418 yards, 4 TDs; 9 rush, 151 yards, 1 TD

Let. Them. Develop.

Cobb was looking good until he got hurt last year. I thought he was good as a rookie.

 

[jrry32]

Sam Bradford's 2012 stats are all opinion? What you think of them is opinion. The stats are facts.

Your interpretation of them is not a fact. It's an opinion. And that's what the discussion is based around. The stats are stats. They say nothing. It's how we interpret them and that's subjective.

 

[iced]

I submit that stats are reliant on the supporting cast and team element. Thus, they are not truly individual and do not accurately sum up "play".

For example, Tom Brady in 2013 with lackluster weapons:
Completion% = 60.5%
YPA = 6.9
YPG = 271.4
TDPG = 1.6
INTPG = 0.7
QB Rating = 87.1

And Rob Gronkowski played 7 games, which is close to half the year. Without Gronk, Brady had:
Completion% = 57.6%
YPA = 6.2
YPG = 237.6
TDPG = 1.3
INTPG = 0.7
QB Rating = 80.3

With Gronk, Brady had:
Completion% = 64.1%
YPA = 7.8
YPG = 315
TDPG = 1.9
INTPG = 0.7
QB Rating = 95.8

It's astounding here the differences in the numbers with Gronk and without. So lets look at what Bradford was throwing to in 2012:
1. Chris Givens - Rookie
2. Brandon Gibson
3. Danny Amendola - Injured
4. Lance Kendricks
5. Austin Pettis

Lets look at Bradford's OL (number of games started):
LT: Rodger Saffold(10)/Wayne Hunter(4)/Joe Barksdale(2)
LG: Robert Turner(7)/Quinn Ojinnaka(5)/Shelley Smith(4)
C: Robert Turner(9)/Scott Wells(7)
RG: Harvey Dahl(14)/Shelley Smith(2)/Chris Williams(0)
RT: Barry Richardson(16)

Where did his running game rank, you may ask? 19th in yards, 15th in yards per carry and 29th in TDs.

I don't think any of us believe that Bradford is Tom Brady good. But look at the effect Brady's cast had on his numbers. Now look at Bradford's cast in 2012. You had one of the league's worst group of WRs, you had an OL filled with a bunch of JAGs and players out of the NFL except for Wells and Saffold who were both injured for good chunks of the year, and you had an average running game.

Where was his help? I think the fact that his numbers were actually somewhat solid speaks well of his play.

hell an even closer comparison situation wise would be looking at brady at the beginning/very early in the season without his weapons and green/young receivers (like first few weeks, when he only had thompkins and dobson, amendola IF he was healthy,no gronk, etc)...

 

[AZRamsFan93]

Your interpretation of them is not a fact. It's an opinion. And that's what the discussion is based around. The stats are stats. They say nothing. It's how we interpret them and that's subjective.

My goodness. I did say that if you are okay with a mid 20s statistical ranking as evidence of great play that your standards are pretty low. I did not think that was controversial.

It is not necessary to defend Sam Bradford from ANY negative observation regarding his performance to date. Usually the most ardent Sam Bradford fans will concede he hasn't played at a consistently high level, they just usually state there are reasons why.... I was only challenging the OPs assertion that his 2012 stats were something we should be happy with.

We should not, not if we want to win.

 

[jrry32]

My goodness. I did say that if you are okay with a mid 20s statistical ranking as evidence of great play that your standards are pretty low. I did not think that was controversial.

It is not necessary to defend Sam Bradford from ANY negative observation regarding his performance to date. Usually the most ardent Sam Bradford fans will concede he hasn't played at a consistently high level, they just usually state there are reasons why.... I was only challenging the OPs assertion that his 2012 stats were something we should be happy with.

We should not, not if we want to win.

These are opinions. Not "reality".

I think it's worth considering context when posting the numbers. I think that stats without the consideration of context is pointless when speaking about expectations.

Your expectations for Sam with Brandon Gibson, Laurent Robinson and Danny Amendola at WR would not be the same as your expectations if he had Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green and Brandon Marshall, correct?

Frankly, I'm not sure why you're so bothered by me pointing out other variables that factor into it. He is our QB after all.

Hell, he never even said "happy". He said okay with it. And I think that's a reasonable stance. I was okay with the season he had too. I want more. I now expect more since he raised the bar and has a better team around him now. But back then, I think he had a solid year and I was okay with it.

 

[Angry Ram]

Cobb was looking good until he got hurt last year. I thought he was good as a rookie.

So was Tavon.