Winston Trade-Up Scenario

[Riverumbbq]

The OP does a fine job of putting together this scenario, but I really dislike going this route for 2015. My own vote now is more in line with getting this O-Line going first. I'm fine with extending Bradford for 2016 with a much reduced salary, or cutting & re-signing him. If he bolts, then i'd rely on free agency to fill the need. Even if he stays i'd rather see another free agent (not Davis) QB along with Hill. Outside of Mariota & Winston, this QB class looks anemic, but I don't give away our future like Washington did with RG3 to acquire either one of them. Our O-Line is more than one OG away from being solid. Draft a top RT & Center, find the best LG available in free agency. jmo.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yes. Buffalo is in a similar position to KC a couple years ago. They have the talent on offense and a great defense. They just need a better QB than Orton to be a major contender. With Orton as a top tier backup, I think they're willing to take the risk on Bradford. I also think they'd likely offer him a 1 or 2 year extension in order to reduce the cap number. But they have cap room for it. They are in the top 10 or so teams in available cap space for 2015 right now.

Tennessee and Tampa Bay are other teams that I think will strongly consider it.

Well Buffalo would have to restructure Orton too then as he's got a 7 mill base for next year and Ej Manuel is still on the books for some cheddar.
I think Sam would be in demand if released but I have a hard time thinking somebody would trade for him and that contract with all the doubts

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well Buffalo would have to restructure Orton too then as he's got a 7 mill base for next year and Ej Manuel is still on the books for some cheddar.
I think Sam would be in demand if released but I have a hard time thinking somebody would trade for him and that contract with all the doubts

Agreed. Nobody is touching Bradford with his current contract terms. Even the Rams shouldn't, IMO.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I disagree strongly. I think if anything, you've got it backwards. There's little risk in rolling with Carr. He's coming off a solid rookie year. By rolling with him, if he fails, the GM didn't draft him so the blame on that failure won't fall on him. And he'll have the opportunity to build up the team around the QB for his guy if Carr fails.

If he drafts Winston and trades Carr, he takes the risk that Winston will fail and the blowback falls on him...plus if Carr succeeds, he looks even worse. And the Raiders still lack talent in so many key areas.

320 is not that much of a difference. You look at a lot of the first round trades of late, it fluctuates greatly.

As for the site, from what I recall, he altered the chart based on the trades to values that better reflected the values at that point in time.

Why would the Raiders move down? Think about who they're going after. Likely a pass rusher or a WR. Two of the deepest positions in the draft. By moving down, they don't sacrifice that much. They'll have the opportunity to draft a pass rusher like Shane Ray, Dante Fowler Jr., Bud Dupree, Vic Beasley, or Nate Orchard. If they go WR, they have a shot at Kevin White, DeVante Parker, or DGB. The Raiders needs match up well to the strengths of the draft.

Think of the Rams in 2012. That was also true. The Raiders are in a good position to move down into the mid first.

It's easy to poo-poo on trades with how hard they are to predict but I don't think this is an unrealistic scenario.



Fisher never has shied away from immature players at other positions. From what I recall, Fisher didn't want Young. I have a hard time believing he wouldn't want Winston. Seems like his type of player to me.

I'd take the risk. But I don't blame you for not wanting to. The one big thing for me is if I found out the rape allegation was true, I wouldn't draft him.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[jrry32]

Well Buffalo would have to restructure Orton too then as he's got a 7 mill base for next year and Ej Manuel is still on the books for some cheddar.
I think Sam would be in demand if released but I have a hard time thinking somebody would trade for him and that contract with all the doubts

Maybe. They'll have ample cap room even without restructuring Orton.

I think somebody would definitely trade for Sam if we are willing to go that route. You underestimate the desperation for QBs.

Like I said, it's a draft day deal so free agency has passed and the top QBs are off the board. At that point, if we have a QB in hand, I think there will be some takers.

Hell, I think there would be takers before that point. Bradford will have a market. As long as he is willing to extend his contract for a reasonable amount, I think we could trade him.

 

[dieterbrock]

Maybe. They'll have ample cap room even without restructuring Orton.

I think somebody would definitely trade for Sam if we are willing to go that route. You underestimate the desperation for QBs.

Like I said, it's a draft day deal so free agency has passed and the top QBs are off the board. At that point, if we have a QB in hand, I think there will be some takers.

Hell, I think there would be takers before that point. Bradford will have a market. As long as he is willing to extend his contract for a reasonable amount, I think we could trade him.

I don't think there is a desperation for a qb that can't stay on the field.
i think you're underestimating the fiscal responsibility here. Just because a team has cap room doesn't mean they just blow it on a whim
And you've moved the goal posts here. Sam contract is 1 year 13 mill.
Now you're saying that he'd extend at a reasonable number before a trade? That's a totally different subject

 

[jrry32]

I don't think there is a desperation for a qb that can't stay on the field.
i think you're underestimating the fiscal responsibility here. Just because a team has cap room doesn't mean they just blow it on a whim
And you've moved the goal posts here. Sam contract is 1 year 13 mill.
Now you're saying that he'd extend at a reasonable number before a trade? That's a totally different subject

No, I'm saying he'd do it after the trade. Something that was done following the Cassel trade, the Kolb trade, and the Schaub trade.

I do think there are plenty of teams desperate for a starting QB and willing to take the injury risk that comes with Bradford.

Sam's contract is 1 year $13 million. I think if Buffalo made the deal, they'd offer something like a 3 year $26 million extension with a fair amount guaranteed to entice Bradford to lower his cap number, giving them Bradford at a cheapish cost for 3 years(if he stays healthy, it's a steal of a deal for them), and lowering his cap in 2015 to something like $8 million.

 

[dieterbrock]

No, I'm saying he'd do it after the trade. Something that was done following the Cassel trade, the Kolb trade, and the Schaub trade.

I do think there are plenty of teams desperate for a starting QB and willing to take the injury risk that comes with Bradford.

Sam's contract is 1 year $13 million. I think if Buffalo made the deal, they'd offer something like a 3 year $26 million extension with a fair amount guaranteed to entice Bradford to lower his cap number, giving them Bradford at a cheapish cost for 3 years(if he stays healthy, it's a steal of a deal for them), and lowering his cap in 2015 to something like $8 million.

Similar to Kolb, Cassell and Schaub outside of that whole "hasn't played in a year and a half due to a back to back acl blowout" thingie

Also keep in mind that Bradford may not want to sign that extension. And it would be a wise gamble. Take the 13 mill and be an ufa after 15

 

[jrry32]

Similar to Kolb, Cassell and Schaub outside of that whole "hasn't played in a year and a half due to a back to back acl blowout" thingie

Also keep in mind that Bradford may not want to sign that extension. And it would be a wise gamble. Take the 13 mill and be an ufa after 15

No, similar to all three in that they had their contracts extended/restructured after they were traded.

Bradford may not want to...but I have a hard time believing that. I think if they made him a fair offer, he'd extend it.

 

[dieterbrock]

No, similar to all three in that they had their contracts extended/restructured after they were traded.

Bradford may not want to...but I have a hard time believing that. I think if they made him a fair offer, he'd extend it.

Negotiating an extension for those players was a numbers game. Because there wasn't the injury factor weighing in on the ROI. That is not the case with Sam. We're mit talking a handful of games here nor or we talking about aome savage freak hit that did him in last time. It's a huge factor for the team
As for Sam? Well if he gets traded he holds ALL the leverage and he will/should use that to his advantage.
He's guaranteed 13 mill for next year with his new team. Unless they are going to sweeten the pot, why take less? If he plays up to his potential, he's an ufa after the season and signs a monster deal somewhere. And he gets to pick the team
If he gets hurt again? Or doesn't play well? If it's a heavily incentified deal he won't hit his targets anyway
So I apologize for derailing the thread.
Oh and I don't like Winston either. Lol
I'm dreaming of cooper in the 1st and Petty in the 2nd

 

[duckhunter]

If the Rams want to go a different route immediately at QB or develop a more solid backup plan than last year, I understand the dilemma they are in. No real obvious moves. Move up in the draft for a more gifted and possibly more ready QB or try to develop someone over say a year. Do they look for a game manager in FA? It doesn't look like a vanilla decision.

I would hope they discuss and explore all options. Not being able to complete three seasons of his short career hurts Sam's value and development tremendously. It's worse than kissing a sister or grandmother. I would expect Fish to say Sam is in the hunt at QB for next year but this decision can deflate Fish's place in football lore. Fish needs to get it right and take the team to the next level; he's close to grabbing the brass ring.

What do you do with Sam is part and parcel of that dilemma? Since the Rams control his contract any movement of Sam requires their involvement unless they cut him outright. I would think they make some concerted effort to retain some value for the team's sake and Sam's also. Engineering a trade and rejiggered contract has been done in the past so anything is possible.

We're lucky that Snead is such a swashbuckler, seemingly willing and capable of doing the difficult adjustments to improve a roster rather than lay there and flop around like a fish out of water. I'd take the collar off him and turn that mad dog loose. Let him lay out our options, chose a direction and then get her done.

If he gets it wrong, we can all yell: 'off with his head.'

 

[TheDYVKX]

I like Winston as a QB and have no problem drafting him, but preferably we don't trade up for him. Too much risk involved to trade up for him. If a worthwhile QB isn't available at our draft spot, take best player available or trade down. We could land a guy like AJ Cann or DeVante Parker who I love if we trade down, instead of trading up or forcing a QB onto our roster. Just don't like the value.