Winston Trade-Up Scenario

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jrry32

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A poster on another forum asked for this so I figured I'd post it here. The draft is nearly identical to my last mock. Didn't see a reason to change it up. DISCLAIMER: If the thought of Jameis Winston on the Rams rustles your jimmies, I'd stop here.
Released
Jake Long - $8 million in cap savings
Kendall Langford - $6 million in cap savings
Scott Wells - $3.8 million in cap savings
Eugene Sims - $1.9 million in cap savings
Isaiah Pead - $900,000 in cap savings
Total Cap Savings: $20.6 million
Total Cap Room: $27.1 million

Re-signed Players
Joe Barksdale - 5 years $30 million($5 million first year)
Kenny Britt - 3 years $15 million($5 million first year)
Lance Kendricks - 2 years $6 million($3 million first year)
Alex Carrington - 1 year $1.5 million
Shaun Hill - 1 year $1.5 million
Mike Person - 1 year $745,000
Cory Harkey - ERFA($645,000)
Tim Barnes - RFA($1.4 million - Original round)
Rodney McLeod - RFA($1.4 million - Original Round)
Total Cap Spent: $18.1 million
Total Cap Room: $9.0 million

Free Agency
C.J. Mosley DT
c.j.-mosley-suspended.jpg

1 year $1.7 million

Rotational DT known for his run stuffing ability to replace Kendall Langford.

Trades
St. Louis trades HB Zac Stacy
Tennessee trades 6th round pick(#2)

St. Louis trades Pick #14, 3rd round(#14), 2016 1st
Oakland trades Pick #3

St. Louis trades QB Sam Bradford
Buffalo trades 3rd round(#20), Conditional 2016 4th(becomes a third if Bradford plays 75% of the offensive snaps and a 2nd if he plays 75% of the offensive snaps and the Bills make the playoffs)

We trade Stacy because he's fallen behind Cunningham and Mason but still has value and could be a good HB on another team. Tennessee wants to replace Shonn Greene and Stacy offers them a better version of Greene to pair with Sankey.

In this scenario, Tampa Bay takes Marcus Mariota and I believe Tennessee sticks with Mettenberger for another year. My opinion of Whisenhunt is that he'll want to build up the rest of the team based on his past rather than role with another rookie. I also think Tennessee might inquire about Bradford on draft day if this scenario happens. Oakland is sitting pretty at #3 with Winston on the board. They've brought in a new GM who decides to stick with Carr and build up the team around him like Les Snead did. They're willing to stockpile picks and drop down due to the depth of talent at DE/OLB and WR positions in this draft.

With the Rams moving up, the Bills come calling on draft day. They like Orton as a backup but don't want him to be their primary starter. They're willing to make an Alex Smith esque deal for Bradford. The Smith deal was for a 2nd and a conditional 3rd. They aren't willing to give that much up because of the time Bradford has missed. We are able to talk them into offering a pick one round lower in each year than what SF got for Alex Smith. Buffalo has the defense and weapons to contend but they need a QB with more ability than Orton. With Orton as a backup, they're willing to take the injury risk with Sam.

NFL Draft
Round 1 Pick #3 - Jameis Winston QB Florida State

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpu8tSwmrjk

Analysis: Some people will scoff at the comparison because it's such lofty praise but I think Jameis Winston compares most favorably to Brett Favre. When you watch him play, you see the same type of physical tools, playing style, leadership, and weaknesses on the field that Favre had. I also think Winston has a similar type of personality to Favre off of it. He's immature and doesn't really seem to exercise good judgement. That all said, it's hard to deny the skills Winston has. He has a cannon for an arm, good mobility, great instincts for improvising, impressive touch, feels pressure and moves well in the pocket, and is a real competitor that is known for his late game heroics. Winston also has shown the ability to make throws very few guys that play his position can make, he is very difficult to sack due to his size, strength, and quick feet, he throws with anticipation, he is able to throw guys open, and his ball placement is impressive for such a young QB. However, Winston also makes poor decisions off the field and on it. He is over-aggressive and can be impatient at times. Which leads him to forcing passes into coverage down the field. Winston also needs to do a better job of spotting and being mindful of defenders in zone coverage underneath. He needs to do a better job of hitting his check-down rather than forcing things down the field. Finally, Winston needs to improve on his lower body mechanics and core rotation as his footwork gets sloppy which can hinder his accuracy and he doesn't use his body when throwing like he could which would allow him to throw with even more velocity. Still, this is a kid who has out of this world physical talent, is a vocal leader who will get onto teammates when they don't do their job, and loves playing football. I can't evaluate his character so I'll leave that up to the professionals.

Round 2 Pick #14 - A.J. Cann OG South Carolina

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlwRR2-tr_w

Analysis: Cann is one of my favorite prospects in this draft. I think he's a very NFL ready prospect with the tools to be a very good NFL LG. I have compared him to Josh Sitton. Cann has very flexible hips and ankles with a good sized frame at 6'4" 320. He shows the power to get movement in the running game and consistently shoots off the ball low to the ground which allows him to win the leverage battle. Cann also shows a good understanding of position and angles because South Carolina, unfortunately, has him sealing, reaching, and hooking far more often than he should in their zone heavy scheme. Cann shows the ability to be devastating while down blocking and drive blocking. Still, I wish he had more of a mean steak as I don't think he finishes blocks like he should. He doesn't look to bury defenders at all time and doesn't play through the whistle like Scherff and Sambrailo do. As a pass protector, Cann has some flaws that he needs to improve upon. He's very comfortable mirroring in his stance although he does sometimes cheat on his position step. Cann shows impressive lateral agility, is smooth when forced to redirect, sits comfortably in his stance with great bend/flexibility in his hips and ankles, and Cann has outstanding balance. He also understands how to position himself to protect his QB and open up passing lanes. Cann's hand strength and grip are extraordinary. Once he gets his hands locked in on the chest, defenders rarely are able to disengage even when they seem to have him beat. However, Cann's biggest issues with his pass protection are related to his arm position while setting, his punch timing, and his hand placement. Cann doesn't keep his elbows tight when setting off the LOS and rarely ever lands the first punch. He often relies on counter-punching after the DL has gotten his hands on him. Cann also does not do a good job of targeting his punches inside the shoulders and is often sloppy with his placement. These are all issues that I think should be corrected with NFL level coaching but they are a problem right now. If he fixes the problem, though, due to his hand strength and grip, he'll be one hell of a pass protector.

Round 3 Pick #20 - Devontae Booker HB Utah

View: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:11602362

Analysis: Booker is the definition of the word decisive and that's a great thing(it's what I said about Le'Veon Bell as a prospect). He doesn't dance in the back-field and he doesn't waste time. He gets the ball and he knows exactly where he's going. He does a really nice job of pressing the line of scrimmage before making his cut up-field. Even when forced to bounce it outside, Booker wastes no time in getting N-S. At 5'11" 205, he's not a power HB and shouldn't be mistaken for one. Booker has outstanding feet and explosive burst. He doesn't possess great long speed but in those first 5-10 yards, he's very fast. Booker uses his cuts well to setup defenders and blocks. He is shifty with quick feet and a nice jump cut. Booker also possesses impressive balance which makes him a slippery runner and tougher to knock off his feet than you'd expect. And probably the biggest thing for me with Booker is his ability to catch the football. He has outstanding hands and body control. He can adjust to poorly thrown balls and will make his mark in the NFL as a receiver out of the back-field. I love Booker's versatility and the urgency in his running style. He'll get the yards that are blocked and he can create some on his own with his cutting ability and slipperyness as a runner. Some scouts have compared him to Arian Foster.

Round 5 Pick #14 - A.J. Derby TE Arkansas

View: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:11722579

Analysis: A.J. Derby was Arkansas's backup QB last year but moved to TE in the spring this year before his Senior year. While his stats don't seem elite, I think he's a kid who has a lot of upside to him. Derby is listed at 6'5" 255 and still has some weight to gain at the TE position. He shows off good athleticism as a receiver and has made some really nice circus catches this year. But most of all, despite being new to the position, Derby is a very willing blocker who shows a lot of promise in that department. Arkansas has used him all over the formation including at FB, in the slot, split out wide, and inline at TE. Derby is a high effort kid who plays through the whistle. His blocking and receiver skills all need polishing but this is a good kid to develop behind the TEs we have.

Round 6 Pick #2 - Ryan Russell DE Purdue
Analysis:
With Owa flying up the charts, I needed a new developmental DE and I think I found one in Russell. He's been miscast the last two years as a 3-4 DE in Purdue's defense which has stifled his production but he definitely passes the eye test. I saw him chase down Everett Golson from behind. He showed some serious get-off and closing speed for a guy who is listed at 6'5" 275. Also showed the strength to get movement with a bullrush and a strong punch. Needs to improve his awareness and pass rush moves but he has a great motor and will chase plays down 10 yards down the field. I think this is definitely a good upside pick as this kid is athletic, has a NFL frame, and has had his production stifled by a system he doesn't fit. IMO, if he were on a better team in the 4-3, based on what I've seen of him so far, he could go 3 rounds higher than this.

Round 7 Pick #31 - J.J. Nelson WR/KR UAB

View: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:11760552

Analysis: With this being the late 7th round, I usually look for a player that can fill a certain role for our team. J.J. Nelson returned FOUR kickoffs for TDs in 2014. He led the NCAA in average yards per kickoff return. Nelson is listed at 5'11" 160 but possesses breathtaking speed. I wouldn't be surprised if he flirts with a 4.2 40. I saw him run right by Phillip Gaines who ran in the mid 4.3s in a game. Nelson has rare speed, impressive cutting ability, and good balance which makes him a very dangerous returnman. However, the guy also actually has some WR skills that could allow him to challenge Givens's role as the situational deep threat. Even if he doesn't, this kid has potential to be a special teams dynamo. Bennie has done a great job on KRs this year but I'd love to get a guy who could take it to the house.

Starting Line-up
QB: Jameis Winston
HB: Tre Mason
FB: Cory Harkey
XWR: Brian Quick
ZWR: Kenny Britt
SLWR: Tavon Austin
TE: Jared Cook
LT: Greg Robinson
LG: A.J. Cann
C: Barrett Jones
RG: Rodger Saffold
RT: Joe Barksdale

LDE: Chris Long
LDT: Aaron Donald
RDT: Michael Brockers
RDE: Robert Quinn
WLB: Alec Ogletree
MLB: James Laurinaitis
SPUR: Mark Barron
LCB: Trumaine Johnson
RCB: Janoris Jenkins
NCB: E.J. Gaines
FS: Rodney McLeod
SS: T.J. McDonald

K: Greg Zuerlein
P: Johnny Hekker
LS: Jake McQuaide
KR: J.J. Nelson
PR: Tavon Austin

Some will ask why I didn't spend any money in FA with Bradford being traded, the answer is because it was a draft day deal after we secured Winston.
 

paceram

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Call me crazy but I like your plan! I doubt too many Rams fans will agree with the trade up for Winston but I do think he will end up being a very good NFL QB and if the Rams can get better play out of their QB & OL positions next season I think they will make the playoffs! I would personally keep Stacy if they can't get more for him than a 6th Round pick and I am a little pessimistic about the Sam Bradford trade but overall I would be very pleased with your scenario for the Rams!
 

bigdog2834

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I really like this. I think it's fairly realistic and I don't feel like we are giving up the farm for Winston. My only knock would be spending a 3rd rounder on a running back. I would much rather take another o-lineman or possibly a linebacker there.
 

jrry32

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I really like this. I think it's fairly realistic and I don't feel like we are giving up the farm for Winston. My only knock would be spending a 3rd rounder on a running back. I would much rather take another o-lineman or possibly a linebacker there.

A lot of people disagree with me but I think we could use another talented HB. I like Bennie. He's a great role player but I don't see him as a difference maker. Tre is a good player too but I'm not sure he can be a great HB.

I think Devontae Booker can be a great HB and that's a position that does have a big impact on the game. Especially a guy like Booker who is both a talented runner and a great receiving HB.
 

duckhunter

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More will be revealed as the process works itself out. At this time, I wouldn't bitch.

Winston is a winner and makes plays in crunch time behind a pretty good line. The big question in my mind is how would he work behind the unknown quality line play that we field year in and year out. He'll have a learning curve for sure.

I'd address more depth at LB and OL even if we have to move up for someone.
 

den-the-coach

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jrry love you man and this would take some guts to pull off. The off season is going to be quite a roller coaster ride for the ages with the state of the franchise plus the quarterback position. Something like this would only add to the excitement as I indulge in some Macallan 18 to either celebrate or to drown my sorrows! Nicely done sir putting together a scenario in landing one of the big two.
 

Memphis Ram

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"He's immature and doesn't really seem to exercise good judgement."

And the Rams are going to trade up for him and give him millions for fuel?
And even after what Fisher went through with Vince Young?
And the Raiders would make such a trade not even close to trade chart value?

f973385000618eeb589085a13beefee1.jpg
 

Rams0307

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I'm not sure we'll need to trade up to draft him. He'll be off several teams boards for some reason or another, and his play fell off this year. I wouldn't do that trade, and I'm someone who's been for drafting Winston.
 

den-the-coach

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I'm not sure we'll need to trade up to draft him. He'll be off several teams boards for some reason or another, and his play fell off this year. I wouldn't do that trade, and I'm someone who's been for drafting Winston.

Lovie Smith be all over this kid after the Titans take Mariota....Keeping him home and Lovie will believe he can handle him.
 
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jrry32

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"He's immature and doesn't really seem to exercise good judgement."

And the Rams are going to trade up for him and give him millions for fuel?
And even after what Fisher went through with Vince Young?
And the Raiders would make such a trade not even close to trade chart value?

f973385000618eeb589085a13beefee1.jpg

The trade chart is an estimation. It took three firsts and a second to get the #2 pick in 2012 despite Washington picking at #6. In 2013, it took one first and a 2nd to move up to #3 for Miami who was picking at #12.

What you get out of a trade depends on what people are willing to offer which is influenced by how strong the top of the draft is, how deep the draft is, how many teams are willing to move up, and how many teams are willing to move down.

My opinion is that the Rams need to jump the Jets to secure Winston. But I don't think there will be a lot of teams looking to move up while I think Tennessee, Oakland, and Jacksonville will all entertain offers to move down.

Ultimately, Oakland will see more value in stockpiling the extra picks and dropping down because of the depth in this draft at the positions they need. Just like they did in 2013 when they moved down from #3 to #12 for only #12 and a 2nd.

Yes, I will trade up and take the risk on Winston's immaturity. Because without that, he'd be a surefire #1 pick.
 

jrry32

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Lovie Smith be all over this kid after the Titans take Mariota....Keeping home and Lovie will believe he can handle him.

I think Tampa Bay is picking before Tennessee if I'm right. And I think if Tampa Bay chooses to draft a QB, they'd be more inclined to go for Mariota.

I don't feel like Tedford, Lovie, and the Bucs organization will want to take Winston after the Josh Freeman experiment blew up in their faces. And after Vince Young, I think the Titans are going also be apprehensive about picking Winston. That helps us.

I feel like there will be some teams with him off the board. Unfortunately, if given the chance, I think the Jets will take him.
 

den-the-coach

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I think Tampa Bay is picking before Tennessee if I'm right. And I think if Tampa Bay chooses to draft a QB, they'd be more inclined to go for Mariota.

I don't feel like Tedford, Lovie, and the Bucs organization will want to take Winston after the Josh Freeman experiment blew up in their faces. And after Vince Young, I think the Titans are going also be apprehensive about picking Winston. That helps us.

I feel like there will be some teams with him off the board. Unfortunately, if given the chance, I think the Jets will take him.

Jets will take him I agree also agree that Titans pick after Bucs, but see them trading up big time for Mariota...Who knows?
 

Memphis Ram

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The trade chart is an estimation. It took three firsts and a second to get the #2 pick in 2012 despite Washington picking at #6. In 2013, it took one first and a 2nd to move up to #3 for Miami who was picking at #12.

What you get out of a trade depends on what people are willing to offer which is influenced by how strong the top of the draft is, how deep the draft is, how many teams are willing to move up, and how many teams are willing to move down.

My opinion is that the Rams need to jump the Jets to secure Winston. But I don't think there will be a lot of teams looking to move up while I think Tennessee, Oakland, and Jacksonville will all entertain offers to move down.

Ultimately, Oakland will see more value in stockpiling the extra picks and dropping down because of the depth in this draft at the positions they need. Just like they did in 2013 when they moved down from #3 to #12 for only #12 and a 2nd.

Yes, I will trade up and take the risk on Winston's immaturity. Because without that, he'd be a surefire #1 pick.

Sure the market determines the value for the selection, but the trade chart is still an estimation that teams still strongly consider from what I understand. And this isn't Miami trading up for a lineman in a very weak top half draft class. This time a QB is involved in a potentially much better top half draft class.

And the immaturity issue is HUGE for someone who may be considered the face of the franchise.
 

jrry32

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Sure the market determines the value for the selection, but the trade chart is still an estimation that teams still strongly consider from what I understand. And this isn't Miami trading up for a lineman in a very weak top half draft class. This time a QB is involved in a potentially much better top half draft class.

And the immaturity issue is HUGE for someone who may be considered the face of the franchise.

Okay but you're questioning that QB involved so it's not like we're trading up for Andrew Luck...Winston is a polarizing prospect. I don't think there's going to be a ton of competition to move up for him and that's what dictates market value.

It's easy to sit here and shoot down every trade possibility offered but those things tend to be unexpected and hard to project. The trade value chart is an extremely rough estimate. I'm just doing the best I can here. I get that 2013 was weak...but 2012 was extremely strong. This class is somewhere in the middle. Which is why I offered much more than the Dolphins in 2013 but much less than the Redskins in 2012. I was trying to find a happy medium with what I was willing to give up.

But even if you do go by the chart, here are the values:
Rams
#14 - 1100
#78 - 200
2016 1st - 580

Raiders
#3 - 2200

That's not a huge difference. And that's counting the 2016 1st as the #1 pick in the 2nd which I've always thought was dumb.

If you count the 2016 1st as an actual 1st round pick, the Rams would be within 100 points of equal value if they picked 21st...they'd be equal if they picked 18th.

So I think even going by the chart, this isn't such a skewed trade. And that's going by the original chart. If you use an updated chart:
http://www.nfldraft101.com/draft/articles/214/Updating_the_NFL_Draft_Trade_Chart_for_2009.jsp

Rams
#14 - 1000
#78 - 210
2016 1st - 590

Raiders
#3 - 2000

That leaves a 200 point difference. Which if you consider the future 1st to actually be a first, it would mean the Raiders would get around equal value if the Rams picked 22nd or 23rd.

Again, doesn't seem too skewed in our favor.

And that's only a mathematical analysis. It doesn't consider motivations the Raiders might have for trading down or the demand for the pick.

On the Winston front, immaturity isn't something to be overlooked but he'd hardly be the first QB with maturity problems coming out of college to succeed. And I don't care about the face of the franchise nonsense. Fans love winners. If this team wins, I don't care who they make the face of the franchise. If it can't be Winston, oh well. Because, in the end, if the Rams are winning and contending...nobody will care if Winston can or can't be the face of the franchise. They'll manufacture another "face of the franchise" to take his place.
 

FRO

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I just see trading up taking much more than what was offered. I'm not expecting RGIII level of trade, but it will take a haul. The Jets probably will be in the market and they pick near the top. I like Winston the prospect, I just see it taking more to get him.
 

jrry32

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Buffalo trading for Bradford and that cap hit?

Yes. Buffalo is in a similar position to KC a couple years ago. They have the talent on offense and a great defense. They just need a better QB than Orton to be a major contender. With Orton as a top tier backup, I think they're willing to take the risk on Bradford. I also think they'd likely offer him a 1 or 2 year extension in order to reduce the cap number. But they have cap room for it. They are in the top 10 or so teams in available cap space for 2015 right now.

Tennessee and Tampa Bay are other teams that I think will strongly consider it.
 

Memphis Ram

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Okay but you're questioning that QB involved so it's not like we're trading up for Andrew Luck...Winston is a polarizing prospect. I don't think there's going to be a ton of competition to move up for him and that's what dictates market value.

It's easy to sit here and shoot down every trade possibility offered but those things tend to be unexpected and hard to project. The trade value chart is an extremely rough estimate. I'm just doing the best I can here. I get that 2013 was weak...but 2012 was extremely strong. This class is somewhere in the middle. Which is why I offered much more than the Dolphins in 2013 but much less than the Redskins in 2012. I was trying to find a happy medium with what I was willing to give up.

But even if you do go by the chart, here are the values:
Rams
#14 - 1100
#78 - 200
2016 1st - 580

Raiders
#3 - 2200

That's not a huge difference. And that's counting the 2016 1st as the #1 pick in the 2nd which I've always thought was dumb.

If you count the 2016 1st as an actual 1st round pick, the Rams would be within 100 points of equal value if they picked 21st...they'd be equal if they picked 18th.

So I think even going by the chart, this isn't such a skewed trade. And that's going by the original chart. If you use an updated chart:
http://www.nfldraft101.com/draft/articles/214/Updating_the_NFL_Draft_Trade_Chart_for_2009.jsp

Rams
#14 - 1000
#78 - 210
2016 1st - 590

Raiders
#3 - 2000

That leaves a 200 point difference. Which if you consider the future 1st to actually be a first, it would mean the Raiders would get around equal value if the Rams picked 22nd or 23rd.

Again, doesn't seem too skewed in our favor.

And that's only a mathematical analysis. It doesn't consider motivations the Raiders might have for trading down or the demand for the pick.

On the Winston front, immaturity isn't something to be overlooked but he'd hardly be the first QB with maturity problems coming out of college to succeed. And I don't care about the face of the franchise nonsense. Fans love winners. If this team wins, I don't care who they make the face of the franchise. If it can't be Winston, oh well. Because, in the end, if the Rams are winning and contending...nobody will care if Winston can or can't be the face of the franchise. They'll manufacture another "face of the franchise" to take his place.

I may be questioning the QB, but actual NFL teams may not be questioning him nearly as harshly. Either way, I'm just saying that QBs have typically cost more in trade ups. And 320 points is a huge difference, IMO. It amounts to an extra 2nd round choice.

Plus, the Rams would be asking a team to move down into the early teens with that compensation. From what is typically considered the blue-chip portion of the draft to the red-chip portion?

I'm not sure I've even heard of the site where this one writer took it upon himself to update the chart, but the comments at the bottom are telling, IMO:
  • Mar 29 - JohnThe above trade chart is much different from others - what is the NFL's actual current value chart - a call to the NFL went nowhere.
In the end anything is possible. But, I can't help but to believe that there is a very slim chance that the Raiders soon to be new GM would accept that deal. These guys have to save face with their fellow colleagues, too. If Winston panned out and Carr went south, and he got less value than many would expect, he'd be hard pressed to live it down. Or perhaps keep his job.

On Winston. Owners and fans like winners. But, the guys who write the checks don't like negative publicity either. And with the league becoming more sensitive on just about everything negative nowadays, that's a major concern.

Whenever I see a kid with this kind of rapsheet, I wonder if the player is just unlikely and always gets caught doing something wrong? Or are their a bunch of other things he's done that hasn't even come out yet? And will making him a millionaire just make things worse. And when your HC just went through an issue with an immature QB, it's kind of hard to believe he'd be willing to trade up for the opportunity to try it again. IMO, he's a risk you consider if he falls into your lap, but I surely wouldn't trade up to take the risk. But that just my opinion. The Rams organization may very well feel otherwise.
 

jrry32

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I may be questioning the QB, but actual NFL teams may not be questioning him nearly as harshly. Either way, I'm just saying that QBs have typically cost more in trade ups. And 320 points is a huge difference, IMO. It amounts to an extra 2nd round choice.

Plus, the Rams would be asking a team to move down into the early teens with that compensation. From what is typically considered the blue-chip portion of the draft to the red-chip portion?

I'm not sure I've even heard of the site where this one writer took it upon himself to update the chart, but the comments at the bottom are telling, IMO:
  • Mar 29 - JohnThe above trade chart is much different from others - what is the NFL's actual current value chart - a call to the NFL went nowhere.
In the end anything is possible. But, I can't help but to believe that there is a very slim chance that the Raiders soon to be new GM would accept that deal. These guys have to save face with their fellow colleagues, too. If Winston panned out and Carr went south, and he got less value than many would expect, he'd be hard pressed to live it down. Or perhaps keep his job.

I disagree strongly. I think if anything, you've got it backwards. There's little risk in rolling with Carr. He's coming off a solid rookie year. By rolling with him, if he fails, the GM didn't draft him so the blame on that failure won't fall on him. And he'll have the opportunity to build up the team around the QB for his guy if Carr fails.

If he drafts Winston and trades Carr, he takes the risk that Winston will fail and the blowback falls on him...plus if Carr succeeds, he looks even worse. And the Raiders still lack talent in so many key areas.

320 is not that much of a difference. You look at a lot of the first round trades of late, it fluctuates greatly.

As for the site, from what I recall, he altered the chart based on the trades to values that better reflected the values at that point in time.

Why would the Raiders move down? Think about who they're going after. Likely a pass rusher or a WR. Two of the deepest positions in the draft. By moving down, they don't sacrifice that much. They'll have the opportunity to draft a pass rusher like Shane Ray, Dante Fowler Jr., Bud Dupree, Vic Beasley, or Nate Orchard. If they go WR, they have a shot at Kevin White, DeVante Parker, or DGB. The Raiders needs match up well to the strengths of the draft.

Think of the Rams in 2012. That was also true. The Raiders are in a good position to move down into the mid first.

It's easy to poo-poo on trades with how hard they are to predict but I don't think this is an unrealistic scenario.

On Winston. Owners and fans like winners. But, the guys who write the checks don't like negative publicity either. And with the league becoming more sensitive on just about everything negative nowadays, that's a major concern.

Whenever I see a kid with this kind of rapsheet, I wonder if the player is just unlikely and always gets caught doing something wrong? Or are their a bunch of other things he's done that hasn't even come out yet? And will making him a millionaire just make things worse. And when your HC just went through an issue with an immature QB, it's kind of hard to believe he'd be willing to trade up for the opportunity to try it again. IMO, he's a risk you consider if he falls into your lap, but I surely wouldn't trade up to take the risk. But that just my opinion. The Rams organization may very well feel otherwise.

Fisher never has shied away from immature players at other positions. From what I recall, Fisher didn't want Young. I have a hard time believing he wouldn't want Winston. Seems like his type of player to me.

I'd take the risk. But I don't blame you for not wanting to. The one big thing for me is if I found out the rape allegation was true, I wouldn't draft him.
 

dieterbrock

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Yes. Buffalo is in a similar position to KC a couple years ago. They have the talent on offense and a great defense. They just need a better QB than Orton to be a major contender. With Orton as a top tier backup, I think they're willing to take the risk on Bradford. I also think they'd likely offer him a 1 or 2 year extension in order to reduce the cap number. But they have cap room for it. They are in the top 10 or so teams in available cap space for 2015 right now.

Tennessee and Tampa Bay are other teams that I think will strongly consider it.
Well they'll have to restructure orton too as his base is 7 mill next year