What 2nd Year Guy Must Step Up

[Thordaddy]

I may have mis-followed this discussion if so I apologise.





I read that as jjab saying that Austin and Bailey should both be starters because they are the best we have, you then said that you don't want them both on the field at the same time, not because they aren't the best we have, but because one is 5'10" the other is 5'9".

Disturbing or not it is absolute to me, you put your two best receivers on the field regardless of their height.

If they can get open and catch the ball they're better qualities than being tall, if you want to argue that you don't want them on the field together because Givens, Pettis or Quick are superior football players then I agree I'd want those three on the field ahead of A&B but again it wouldn't be based on their height.

Apologies if that's disturbing.

I loves me some misapologies,you know them what are offered to reassert what they is misapologizin for.

Tavon is 5'8" according to our roster BTW .
Now if they are both starters unless you don't "start" they would have to be on the field at the same time,I said nothing about what I want ever, only about what I expect , hell I think if we could get 4 midgets on the field at the same time it would be more fun to watch than three Supre Bowls combined but it's not what I want for this team.

What I'm really alluding to is that when you are big you are open even when you aren't in a lot of cases and that Dbs are getting larger, some already are :eek: and that the way they get to mug recs for five yards a little guy has trouble getting past that five yards ,putting the lil feller in motion is a preferred way to attend to that and we've use it with TA but ya can't do it with two.
I read somewhere if the average height of your receivers is less than 6ft you have a 20% lower rate of completion and that for every inch you add to that average you deduct 5% (so at 6'1' it's 15%) until you get to 6'4" and that after that it levels off and begins to go back the other way. I'd say the trend would be something like a sin curve cuz at that rate if you had recs averaging 8ft tall you would still complete some passes and if they averaged 4ft 4" the same would be true, remember we are speaking average here so the 4ft 4" group could have a tall guy who was 5ft if the rest were an average of 4ft2 figuring five recs. on the team.
But still size matters ,it's a fact a lot of men are in denial about,hope you aren't one of them.

 

[jjab360]

I read somewhere if the average height of your receivers is less than 6ft you have a 20% lower rate of completion and that for every inch you add to that average you deduct 5% (so at 6'1' it's 15%) until you get to 6'4" and that after that it levels off and begins to go back the other way. I'd say the trend would be something like a sin curve cuz at that rate if you had recs averaging 8ft tall you would still complete some passes and if they averaged 4ft 4" the same would be true, remember we are speaking average here so the 4ft 4" group could have a tall guy who was 5ft if the rest were an average of 4ft2 figuring five recs. on the team.

I'd love to see where you got that from, but even if there was such a study it could only speak of averages and not the individual. Bailey and Austin are not your average undersized receivers, they both have exceptional qualities about them. If what you're ultimate getting at is that you wouldn't start those two even if you thought they were the best receivers on the team, that's a pretty ridiculous stance to take, imo.

 

[jrry32]

Ideally, Tavon and Stedman. If they step up and play at a high level, that'll do big things for the offense.

 

[RamFan503]

Nah, Bailey wouldn't be a good fit for the slot. He has good build up speed, but not much quickness or agility when compared to Tavon or Amendola. His skills are better used on the perimeter, imo.

A lot of people underestimate him or don't understand what kind of player he is because of his height, but that really is the only small thing about him. He's about average weight for an NFL receiver with above average arm length and hand size. The type of routes he excels at, his body control, and his ball skills are all a better fit out wide.

Guess we'll see. You may be right but I still see him playing a lot like Danny. Sharp quick routes, and sure hands. Then every now and then you send him long when the DB is playing him tight.

I thought this was pretty entertaining. You can really see how they are just flat out comfortable with each other.

 

[Rams and Gators]

I loves me some misapologies,you know them what are offered to reassert what they is misapologizin for.

Tavon is 5'8" according to our roster BTW .
Now if they are both starters unless you don't "start" they would have to be on the field at the same time,I said nothing about what I want ever, only about what I expect , hell I think if we could get 4 midgets on the field at the same time it would be more fun to watch than three Supre Bowls combined but it's not what I want for this team.

I read somewhere if the average height of your receivers is less than 6ft you have a 20% lower rate of completion and that for every inch you add to that average you deduct 5% (so at 6'1' it's 15%) until you get to 6'4" and that after that it levels off and begins to go back the other way.

What does that even mean? That a QB's completion percentage drops 68% to 48%? That it's 20% lower than it should be i.e. from 68% to 54%? Or that a sub 6' receiver catches 20% less of his targets? And that at 6'4" it's 0% lower than it should be? I'd love to check the numbers myself because that just seems ludicrous.

 

[Thordaddy]

What does that even mean? That a QB's completion percentage drops 68% to 48%? That it's 20% lower than it should be i.e. from 68% to 54%? Or that a sub 6' receiver catches 20% less of his targets? And that at 6'4" it's 0% lower than it should be? I'd love to check the numbers myself because that just seems ludicrous.

It's Thorean Algebra,ya'll must not have feelin in yer legs

 

[Thordaddy]

I'd love to see where you got that from, but even if there was such a study it could only speak of averages and not the individual. Bailey and Austin are not your average undersized receivers, they both have exceptional qualities about them. If what you're ultimate getting at is that you wouldn't start those two even if you thought they were the best receivers on the team, that's a pretty ridiculous stance to take, imo.

I did read it ,I typed it and then I read it, take some deep breaths ,you've been Thored.

 

[Rams and Gators]

It's Thorean Algebra,ya'll must not have feelin in yer legs

Despite you're disturbing trolling attempt you were actually right, taller receivers do have an increased receptions per target by a none statistically significant 0.2 receptions per 100 targets.

 

[Thordaddy]

Despite you're disturbing trolling attempt you were actually right, taller receivers do have an increased receptions per target .

It wasn't "trolling" it was levity inserted with some folks who were getting a little tightly wrapped on a subject, with a point that you got so lets leave it there without any name calling K?

 

[Rams and Gators]

It wasn't "trolling" it was levity inserted with some folks who were getting a little tightly wrapped on a subject, with a point that you got so lets leave it there without any name calling K?

Yeah let's not get into name calling we're better than that.

 

[tonyl711]

theres plenty of smaller WRs who flourish in the NFL, I don't see why you are so sure these 2 wont. I fact I would say there are more WRs that are in the 6 foot 1 and under category than there are 6'3 AND 6'4 WRs.

 

[Thordaddy]

theres plenty of smaller WRs who flourish in the NFL, I don't see why you are so sure these 2 wont. I fact I would say there are more WRs that are in the 6 foot 1 and under category than there are 6'3 AND 6'4 WRs.

I expect them to ,both of them, I just believe we'll see them mixed with bigger guys more than paired ,and here is another example of changing what is being said and creating disagreement where there is none.

BTW how many of these guys are 6fti and under

Antonio Brown, Steelers; Dez Bryant, Cowboys; Josh Gordon, Browns; A.J. Green, Bengals; Andre Johnson, Texans; Calvin Johnson, Lions; Brandon Marshall, Bears; Demaryius Thomas, Broncos.
Those are the pro bowl selections for this year,what do they average in height?

 

[tonyl711]

I expect them to ,both of them, I just believe we'll see them mixed with bigger guys more than paired ,and here is another example of changing what is being said and creating disagreement where there is none.

BTW how many of these guys are 6fti and under

Antonio Brown, Steelers; Dez Bryant, Cowboys; Josh Gordon, Browns; A.J. Green, Bengals; Andre Johnson, Texans; Calvin Johnson, Lions; Brandon Marshall, Bears; Demaryius Thomas, Broncos.
Those are the pro bowl selections for this year,what do they average in height?

haven't said a taller WR wouldn't be nice, as a matter of fact I said hopefully Quick (a tall WR) gets up to speed. what I am saying is that just because they are both smaller doesn't mean they cant start together in 3 WR sets, its been done before and I think these 2 are good enough to make it work.

 

[Mister Sin]

By value...i think i could have better defined what i meant. I mean their value as in holding on to a roster spot. Guys like Jones, McGee, Ray Ray, Veltung...i guess is doesnt really have to be confined to our draft.

 

[Thordaddy]

haven't said a taller WR wouldn't be nice, as a matter of fact I said hopefully Quick (a tall WR) gets up to speed. what I am saying is that just because they are both smaller doesn't mean they cant start together in 3 WR sets, its been done before and I think these 2 are good enough to make it work.

Well there is no rule against it, but lemme just say this when I'm the QB and I'm in trouble don't want 2/3 of my options to be little guys instead of 2/3 big guys who are better able to fight for the ball.
Yes it can work , but I don't think the diet will be predominantly that,I think you'll se 2 big 1 small more than 2 small 1 big and FWIW small is generous talking about Tavon,Sted is small, Tavon is tiny,but he be mighty.

 

[jrry32]

Well there is no rule against it, but lemme just say this when I'm the QB and I'm in trouble don't want 2/3 of my options to be little guys instead of 2/3 big guys who are better able to fight for the ball.
Yes it can work , but I don't think the diet will be predominantly that,I think you'll se 2 big 1 small more than 2 small 1 big and FWIW small is generous talking about Tavon,Sted is small, Tavon is tiny,but he be mighty.

If those two are on the field, we likely have Cook/Kendricks/Pettis on the field with them. IMO, Tavon and Stedman should be the two starters on the outside. Small or not. Dan Marino was a beast with 5'9" Mark Duper and 5'9" Mark Clayton. If you can get open and catch the ball then that will be good enough.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Well there is no rule against it, but lemme just say this when I'm the QB and I'm in trouble don't want 2/3 of my options to be little guys instead of 2/3 big guys who are better able to fight for the ball.
Yes it can work , but I don't think the diet will be predominantly that,I think you'll se 2 big 1 small more than 2 small 1 big and FWIW small is generous talking about Tavon,Sted is small, Tavon is tiny,but he be mighty.

I know you didn't say it, but would you rather throw to a covered 6'4" receiver who you're not sure will catch the ball even if he's open and the ball hits him in the hands or a 5'9" guy who's open and you trust to catch the ball?

 

[Thordaddy]

I know you didn't say it, but would you rather throw to a covered 6'4" receiver who you're not sure will catch the ball even if he's open and the ball hits him in the hands or a 5'9" guy who's open and you trust to catch the ball?

Well let's just set up a scenario that begs the answer we want why don't we? I never advocated putting incompetence on the field and wouldn't so anyone I throw to I want to catch the ball . Those who can't catch don't make my roster,I guess they do your's though since you came up with the scenario.

 

[Thordaddy]

If those two are on the field, we likely have Cook/Kendricks/Pettis on the field with them. IMO, Tavon and Stedman should be the two starters on the outside. Small or not. Dan Marino was a beast with 5'9" Mark Duper and 5'9" Mark Clayton. If you can get open and catch the ball then that will be good enough.

That's an empty backfield ,which is not what I thought we were talking about,and THAT does have more of you receivers tall than short 3/5.
I hope we aren't in that set most of the time.
As far as Marino and his little guys they were playing against smaller DBs ,we've gone over that ,it's a different league now,Jim Brown wouldn't gain the yards now that he did against 215 lb linebackers and 260 lb DTs and 230 lb DEs .
back then most DBs were sub 200 and a lot of them in the 180s
If you want to use numbers from the past you have to use them all not cherry pick to "prove" a point .
Like I said earlier, DB;s are getting bigger some already are:eek: There is a reason big recs. are at a premium .
BTW how much did you even see those guys play? They were gone 25 years ago.

 

[Thordaddy]

By value...i think i could have better defined what i meant. I mean their value as in holding on to a roster spot. Guys like Jones, McGee, Ray Ray, Veltung...i guess is doesnt really have to be confined to our draft.

As far as holding on to a spot,I think Veltung is gone,he showed something ,but only when Tavon was hurt so IMO we probably come up with something better ,Ray Ray needs to prove more to me as well, Jones if he hits the weights and gets stronger will step up IMO and McGee dunno I think the draft takes his spot.