Week 2 O-line Grades

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fearsomefour

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With Boomers hockey experience why isn't he more balance/agile?
Could be any number of things.
Could be a physical thing....carrying too much weight, lower back problems, tight pelvis etc.
Could just be a technical thing.
Lunges.....stops moving his feet, bad hand placement and getting out of position on a block.
People are not all made the same.
If a guy can’t play with good hip bend he’s going to struggle playing OL.
He will either end up with his “nose over his toes” ala Jamal Brown and end up on the ground and be off balance or play too upright and get walked back by a bull rush and get no push in the running game.
 

Merlin

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Exactly. Its all undeserved. I said before the season starts he's JAG, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Most players are JAGs.
Yeah I agree. I think Boom is a marginal talent. He's going to settle in as a swing tackle and depth level player IMO and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact it's really valuable because he can sub in everywhere but C.

And btw as rabid as fan bases can get (and we do get that way here about our OL) sometimes they see things clearer than the staff because we're not close to these guys. We don't have to look them in the eye and help them through their personal journeys of trying to get better. So even though Kromer has forgotten more than most of us know, he also has to deal with all that and clearly he loves Boom and thinks he's going to be a player and wants to give him that opportunity to make it happen.

But we just nuke the film and the film doesn't lie. And based on that it's clear Boom is not one of our best starting 5 and it's unlikely he will be barring injury. I have no prob with Kromer sticking to his guns, he's certainly earned some leeway here. But it's not close.

This is why I wanted to give him some props with Corbett. I was luke warm at best on him, due to his general softness in the run game, but he's really turned his play of previous seasons around. Corbett and Boom are great examples of how a staff isn't all-knowing but can see the traits they want and help the player get where they need to be. Unfortunately for Boom he has a guy in his spot now in Edwards who probably has pro bowls ahead in his future IMO.
 

MachS

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This video is exactly what I've been saying after two weeks regarding our protection, and passing success on known passing downs. We have been in primarily 3rd and short situations so far due to great game planning by McVay and a solid running game so far. All of our passing success is coming from play action and boot concepts through 2 weeks. But when we have been forced into 2nd and long & 3rd and long known passing situations, the pass protection hasn't been good and Goff hasn't been converting. We went 0-3 in these situations against the Cowboys, 1 int, almost another int, and a punt. Week 2 we went 0-4 in these situations. The other 3rd and 7 Goff completed a 6yrd pass to Jefferson and we then converted the 4th and 1.

IMO if we really want to get back to the playoffs and be a contender this is what needs to improve. But it was the same last year, we just had no running game to get us into favorable 3rd down situations. I'm not sure if our o-line is built to protect well enough in these situations, and when Goff gets pressured on these types of throws it usually leads to trouble.


View: https://twitter.com/EaglesXOs/status/1308097537136619526?s=20
 

Merlin

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This video is exactly what I've been saying after two weeks regarding our protection, and passing success on known passing downs. We have been in primarily 3rd and short situations so far due to great game planning by McVay and a solid running game so far. All of our passing success is coming from play action and boot concepts through 2 weeks. But when we have been forced into 2nd and long & 3rd and long known passing situations, the pass protection hasn't been good and Goff hasn't been converting. We went 0-3 in these situations against the Cowboys, 1 int, almost another int, and a punt. Week 2 we went 0-4 in these situations. The other 3rd and 7 Goff completed a 6yrd pass to Jefferson and we then converted the 4th and 1.

IMO if we really want to get back to the playoffs and be a contender this is what needs to improve. But it was the same last year, we just had no running game to get us into favorable 3rd down situations. I'm not sure if our o-line is built to protect well enough in these situations, and when Goff gets pressured on these types of throws it usually leads to trouble.


View: https://twitter.com/EaglesXOs/status/1308097537136619526?s=20

The two probs on that play... First, Noteboom getting pushed back to the QB's toes. Collapsed pocket is never good. Secondly, Blythe not being ready for the stunt. Top Centers will stick an outstretched arm in the guy's armpit for a quick sec until they see the stunt isn't coming before committing like that.

Edwards should limit the pushback effect. He's not perfect in pass pro either but he's hard to move. And Blythe needs to study a bit more tape, that stunt was classic Schwartz.
 

MachS

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The two probs on that play... First, Noteboom getting pushed back to the QB's toes. Collapsed pocket is never good. Secondly, Blythe not being ready for the stunt. Top Centers will stick an outstretched arm in the guy's armpit for a quick sec until they see the stunt isn't coming before committing like that.

Edwards should limit the pushback effect. He's not perfect in pass pro either but he's hard to move. And Blythe needs to study a bit more tape, that stunt was classic Schwartz.

Yea I think it should improve a bit with Edwards too, but so far through 2 games people might be inclined to think the oline is "fixed" or the pass pro is excellent. I do think its been much better, but I think more so than anything it's been McVays boot/play action scheme and our running game that's been helping. Because on the pure passing downs the protection hasn't been very good.

In a big game or moment, after a sack, or after a penalty, or late in a game... we're going to be forced into these known passing situations and we need to be able to convert under pressure. Hope we can improve in this area as the season goes along.
 

BonifayRam

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I can’t see any possible way Noteboom could be considered at LT given his specific shortcomings.

I agree with Edwards staying the LG going forward.

Having Noteboom work solely at LT may be the last attempt to save his career with the Rams.
We have seen two seasons 2019/2020 where Kromer has tried to fit & play Noteboom @ OG. What have been the results? Still mostly incomplete with plenty of time to make some improvement.

The first rookie season 2018 he was strickly an OT even though he did not have a great number of offensive snaps @ LT Noteboom looked far better there than @ OG.

If Whitworth were to fall to injury who on this roster will start @ LT fearsomefour ?
 

Ram_Rally

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I love these takes.

last years Oline had two huge problems. Noteboom and Allen. It’s been proven to be an accurate assessment. Noteboom is not playing well and Allen is second string.

Center - Blythe is an improvement. But this team needs a better quality center. Drafting one now gives him time to learn. Blythe is serviceable.

Guard - I think it’s obvious now that the coaches want a more nimble player at guard than Edwards. So Noteboom got the start. Since Noteboom has not been good and Edwards apparently isn’t what they desire then maybe a guard is a need. I don’t think it’s a huge need but supposedly the Rams loved Caesar Ruiz, whom I guess would have started at guard then likely moved to Center in 2021. So the coaches at the very least agree they need a Center, which I’ve been asking for for the last two drafts.

OLT - Whitworth is playing well. It looks like they have depth in Brewer, Evans, and Anchrum. We don’t know if any end up being good, so that part is a mystery.
If the coaches agreed they would have drafted a center. Same with guard too wouldn't you say? I mean there a lot of people bemoaning that Akers and jefferson were luxury picks.

And last year's problem being only Allen and Noteboom feels like hindsight bias.

"Whitworth is old"

"We need to trade have"

"Blythe is awful"

"Corbett ain't it"

"We need at least 2 new lineman (some wanted 3!).

Clearly those things are false.
 

fearsomefour

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We have seen two seasons 2019/2020 where Kromer has tried to fit & play Noteboom @ OG. What have been the results? Still mostly incomplete with plenty of time to make some improvement.

The first rookie season 2018 he was strickly an OT even though he did not have a great number of offensive snaps @ LT Noteboom looked far better there than @ OG.

If Whitworth were to fall to injury who on this roster will start @ LT fearsomefour ?
I don’t know.
Seems like a horrific amount of keeping fingers crossed.
I would assume Edwards.
Noteboom would be a disaster imho.
Things pass rushing wise can take a little longer to develop outside but taking a guy who can’t sustain blocks and putting him opposite a teams best pass rusher?? Bad idea
 

Merlin

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Yea I think it should improve a bit with Edwards too, but so far through 2 games people might be inclined to think the oline is "fixed" or the pass pro is excellent. I do think its been much better, but I think more so than anything it's been McVays boot/play action scheme and our running game that's been helping. Because on the pure passing downs the protection hasn't been very good.

In a big game or moment, after a sack, or after a penalty, or late in a game... we're going to be forced into these known passing situations and we need to be able to convert under pressure. Hope we can improve in this area as the season goes along.
For myself I'm at the stage where my hopes are up. That they'll play this way all season. But yeah things could turn quick and do in this league as soon as some DC out there isolates a weakness or whatever.

Nice thing is that Edwards strengthens that left side and now we need to hope Whit can stay healthy and Corbett can keep it up. Because as Edwards gets more games under his belt he's going to be a pro bowl type player IMO.
 

Memento

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Remember when a bunch of people wanted to trade Havenstein for something like a 5th round pick and to free up cap space?

Me. I'm happy to eat some crow. I think I'll make crow burritos with pico de gallo, shredded Mexican cheese, and a chocolate chip cookie to finish it off.
 

MachS

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For myself I'm at the stage where my hopes are up. That they'll play this way all season. But yeah things could turn quick and do in this league as soon as some DC out there isolates a weakness or whatever.

Nice thing is that Edwards strengthens that left side and now we need to hope Whit can stay healthy and Corbett can keep it up. Because as Edwards gets more games under his belt he's going to be a pro bowl type player IMO.

Oh hell yea I'm with you man. Its a complete 180 from last year and great to see them playing well. Our offense is sharp and Goff and the running game both have been looking great so far this season. Corbett and Blythe both playing great, and Hav has returned to form as many expected. I just want to see our line continue to progress and get better in it's "weaker" areas, because if we want to get into the playoffs and beat teams like Seattle, KC, Baltimore.. which we have the roster to do, we better be ready and firing on all cylinders. With all the injuries around the league praying for good health too :hope:.
 

Kevin

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Remember when a bunch of people wanted to trade Havenstein for something like a 5th round pick and to free up cap space?
Remember in 2017 when some people wanted to dump Jared Goff and sign Kirk Cousins because Sean McVay coached him in Washington?
 

Elmgrovegnome

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If the coaches agreed they would have drafted a center. Same with guard too wouldn't you say? I mean there a lot of people bemoaning that Akers and jefferson were luxury picks.

And last year's problem being only Allen and Noteboom feels like hindsight bias.

"Whitworth is old"

"We need to trade have"

"Blythe is awful"

"Corbett ain't it"

"We need at least 2 new lineman (some wanted 3!).

Clearly those things are false.


They wanted to draft a Center/guard. They loved Cesar Ruiz and would have picked him if they had the first round pick. They have a specific type that they look for. That's why they don't draft guys that are simply good, and that's why Noteboom was starting over Edwards. They want players with lateral movement to fit their zone blocking scheme. Noteboom moves well side to side. That's also why they coveted Corbett. Edwards is stiffer and more of a downhill blocker. He's not as good of a scheme fit. They couldn't ignore the value of a second round talent sitting their in round 5. But in the end the most important thing for an Onlinemen to do is make blocks and hold them as long as possible. Edwards does that. Noteboom and Blythe don't. Noteboom misses too many blocks and can't hold his ground when pass blocking. Its all smoke and mirrors right now. Lots of movement and short throws. Like @MachS pointed out they've been 0/7 on third and long situations because the line can't hold their blocks long enough, and the two weak links have been Blythe and Noteboom. The best thing to happen was Edwards replacing Noteboom. They suddenly were able to run to the left instead of behind Corbett and Havenstein only. Maybe they are grooming Corbett to move to Center and that is why Blythe is on a one year deal. His contract should tell you that they dont see him as a crucial cog in the line. If Corbett moves to center then they will likely need another guard next year, unless he's on the roster already in Anaheim or some other.

Thinking this line is actually very good and not in need of upgrades is shortsighted. Don't listen to announcers praising the line during the game either they don't follow specific teams like fans do. Pay attention to things that matter most when playing very good teams i.e. Chunk gains in the run game, with actual open holes to get running backs to the second level and pass blocks being held long enough to complete third and long plays so Goff can throw freely. If those things can't happen then good defenses will become a problem.
 

Robert

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Remember in 2017 when some people wanted to dump Jared Goff and sign Kirk Cousins because Sean McVay coached him in Washington?
I don’t recall that, I do remember reading an article from downtownrams that stated signing Robert woods was Mcvays first mistake as head coach and they could of had Pierre Garcon or DeSean Jackson instead for a few million dollars more, that guy sure was wrong
 

TexasRam

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They wanted to draft a Center/guard. They loved Cesar Ruiz and would have picked him if they had the first round pick. They have a specific type that they look for. That's why they don't draft guys that are simply good, and that's why Noteboom was starting over Edwards. They want players with lateral movement to fit their zone blocking scheme. Noteboom moves well side to side. That's also why they coveted Corbett. Edwards is stiffer and more of a downhill blocker. He's not as good of a scheme fit. They couldn't ignore the value of a second round talent sitting their in round 5. But in the end the most important thing for an Onlinemen to do is make blocks and hold them as long as possible. Edwards does that. Noteboom and Blythe don't. Noteboom misses too many blocks and can't hold his ground when pass blocking. Its all smoke and mirrors right now. Lots of movement and short throws. Like @MachS pointed out they've been 0/7 on third and long situations because the line can't hold their blocks long enough, and the two weak links have been Blythe and Noteboom. The best thing to happen was Edwards replacing Noteboom. They suddenly were able to run to the left instead of behind Corbett and Havenstein only. Maybe they are grooming Corbett to move to Center and that is why Blythe is on a one year deal. His contract should tell you that they dont see him as a crucial cog in the line. If Corbett moves to center then they will likely need another guard next year, unless he's on the roster already in Anaheim or some other.

Thinking this line is actually very good and not in need of upgrades is shortsighted. Don't listen to announcers praising the line during the game either they don't follow specific teams like fans do. Pay attention to things that matter most when playing very good teams i.e. Chunk gains in the run game, with actual open holes to get running backs to the second level and pass blocks being held long enough to complete third and long plays so Goff can throw freely. If those things can't happen then good defenses will become a problem.

You make good points here. Corbett as the long term Center might be a possibility. Also, the fact that everything is smoke and mirrors. I get the point, we are not built to drop back on 3rd and long, no one can argue that point. Blythe is limited and Havenstein often needs help vs speed DE's.

But I think its fair to say that our more nimble interior line is built for our system. The Center and guards are constantly getting out to block on screens or block crossers at the second level during counter plays. They also need the quickness to get out on the lateral zone blocking schemes which they are excelling at.

Smoke and mirrors is one way to describe the offense but I have a feeling this could be the permanent system. Our Personnel is uniquely built and experienced with this short passing game. Goff has shown he is becoming very effective on these movement plays. While it seemed to be a temporary counter to what defense were doing with the Patriots mocked 5 man front, we found great success with it and the end of last year with Higbee's rise and the overall repetitions our WR's and Goff were getting with the particulars and timing of these movement plays.

An entire Dynasty was built on a short passing game that negates the pass rush. The west coast offense. The Niners, Packers and other teams have used the concept to great success. While the west coast offense developed by Bill Walsh is much different then what we are doing in this Mcvay offense, the concept of short passes has shown it can scale as a system. The key is to eliminate stupid penalties and maintain a solid run game, which we have shown to do. Our run game now has the personnel to be serviceable. Havenstein is a top Run blocker and always has been, Whitworth is showing pro bowl form. Corbett is rooting guys out like Saffold. Edwards is solid from my film review. Blythe can't man up the better defenders one on one, but in our scheme where he is often getting out on combo blocks and lateral blocks, he does a serviceable job.

Also, the success of our WR end arounds and the quick slants that are developing are proving lots of variety to the rollouts.

Can top defenses slow down this system? Maybe. They usually do slow down offenses. But what defenses on our schedule are we going to possibly struggle with? The only tough defenses on our schedule are the Bills, Bears, Skins and Patriots. All of which have either questionable offenses or other weaknesses.

I think we are poised to run this system through the playoffs if we can stay healthy. As it stands today, the only defense that is clearly better then our defense is the Ravens. The only NFC team that has given up less points then us is the Cardinals which have given up 1 less point. Overall as a team we are positioned well.
 

Ram_Rally

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They wanted to draft a Center/guard. They loved Cesar Ruiz and would have picked him if they had the first round pick. They have a specific type that they look for. That's why they don't draft guys that are simply good, and that's why Noteboom was starting over Edwards. They want players with lateral movement to fit their zone blocking scheme. Noteboom moves well side to side. That's also why they coveted Corbett. Edwards is stiffer and more of a downhill blocker. He's not as good of a scheme fit. They couldn't ignore the value of a second round talent sitting their in round 5. But in the end the most important thing for an Onlinemen to do is make blocks and hold them as long as possible. Edwards does that. Noteboom and Blythe don't. Noteboom misses too many blocks and can't hold his ground when pass blocking. Its all smoke and mirrors right now. Lots of movement and short throws. Like @MachS pointed out they've been 0/7 on third and long situations because the line can't hold their blocks long enough, and the two weak links have been Blythe and Noteboom. The best thing to happen was Edwards replacing Noteboom. They suddenly were able to run to the left instead of behind Corbett and Havenstein only. Maybe they are grooming Corbett to move to Center and that is why Blythe is on a one year deal. His contract should tell you that they dont see him as a crucial cog in the line. If Corbett moves to center then they will likely need another guard next year, unless he's on the roster already in Anaheim or some other.

Thinking this line is actually very good and not in need of upgrades is shortsighted. Don't listen to announcers praising the line during the game either they don't follow specific teams like fans do. Pay attention to things that matter most when playing very good teams i.e. Chunk gains in the run game, with actual open holes to get running backs to the second level and pass blocks being held long enough to complete third and long plays so Goff can throw freely. If those things can't happen then good defenses will become a problem.
Where did you find the Rams being interested in ruiz? I've never heard this and I'd like to know more. But even if so, ruiz was the only lineman they liked? They didn't see a single lineman until the 7th round that they liked? I find that just to hard to believe.

Also I think you're maybe a bit pessimistic in terms of the defenses we've faced. We can say a lot about the cowboys but they have a nice defensive front. And the eagles maybe even more so. I mean that's been the identity of their defense for years. Sure, scheme helps but our offensive line has played well. I get being skeptical we're only 2 games in. But we're doing the line a disservice by suggesting that they're only good because of bad defense and scheme.

You may be right about Corbett eventually moving over. But If blythe and Corbett continue to hold up I don't see why you couldn't keep them where they are.

Overall, I think people greatly overestimate what having a "good offensive line" means. You're not gonna have 5 pro bowlers. Our 17-18 line may have spoiled us. "good" lines in today's NFL usually consists of 2 good lineman, a decent lineman, and 2 lineman who aren't liabilities on the majority of dropbacks. That's who I think we are. HOPEFULLY anyway.
 
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TexasRam

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Where did you find the Rams being interested in ruiz? I've never heard this and I'd like to know more. But even if so, ruiz was the only lineman they liked? They didn't see a single lineman until the 7th round that they liked? I find that just to hard to believe.

Also I think you're maybe a bit pessimistic in terms of the defenses we've faced. We can say a lot about the cowboys but they have a nice defensive front. And the eagles maybe even more so. I mean that's been the identity of their defense for years. Sure, scheme helps but our offensive line has played well. I get being skeptical we're only 2 games in. But we're doing the line a disservice by suggesting that they're only good because of bad defense and scheme.

You may be right about Corbett eventually moving over. But If blythe and Corbett continue to hold up I don't see why you couldn't keep them where they are.

Overall, I think people greatly overestimate what having a "good offensive line" means. You're not gonna have 5 pro bowlers. Our 17-18 line may have spoiled us. "good" lines in today's NFL usually consists of 2 good lineman, a decent lineman, and 2 lineman who aren't liabilities on the majority of dropbacks. That's who I think we are. HOPEFULLY anyway.

It's interesting to think of the current O-line we have compared to 2017-2018 when we had the top offense over that time period. Many rated our O-line as top 3.

2017 2018 Today
Whitworth Whitworth Whitworth
Saffold Saffold Edwards
Sullivan Sullivan Blythe
Brown Blythe Corbett
Havenstein Havenstein Havenstein

The difference in Today and 2018 is 2 players.

Sullivan and Saffold replaced by Edwards and Corbett. People used to slam on Sullivan weekly. He was a strong run blocker but mediocre to a liability in pass pro. I would say Edwards is more solid overall. Corbett has been approximating Saffold level of play and may get to that level as the season goes on.

Brown was by most peoples evaluation a huge liability in 2017.

So one could argue the O-line we have today is just as good as the 2018 Super Bowl 0-line.

We are avg 28.5 PPG over 2 games and are 3rd in the NFL in rush yards, with Noteboom playing the majority of snaps so far.
 

den-the-coach

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Havenstein had a great game regardless of @oldnotdead thinking he needs help in pass blocking, Havenstein's run blocking is huge IMO. Blythe has done a good job, snaps, line adjustments, thankfully Brian Allen was not active.

As to Noteboom, guess I keep backing him, however, Edwards did seem to get more push in the run game and we will get to see a full game on Sunday and evaluate from there. Need to have a plan in place for Whit's replacement and maybe that player is currently in college.