We have to draft Winston

[jrry32]

I really don't see it that way. You seem to be dramatizing and/or romanticizing what he's doing. If anything, he was late with those throws forcing the receivers to have to stop and catch the ball awkwardly. The videos illustrate the ability of the WR's but not really anything substantive or remarkable about Winston. You see him fitting it into tight windows in between levels of the defense and I see passes that are late and inaccurate to wide open receivers against zone coverage.

I'm just never going to be enamored with a guy in college who plays too much schoolyard ball. Great athletes can run around and buy time and create big plays like that in college but I haven't seen from Winston what you're seeing in terms of his passing.

He was late? Stop. The ball to Bobo Wilson came out of his hand before Wilson had cleared the LB. Nothing late about that throw.

Here's clear evidence of what I'm saying:

You've got the Mike inside of Bobo Wilson with the Will outside and underneath. The Will tries to undercut the route but Winston lofts it high enough that he cna't get there. The Mike tries to get to Wilson but can't because Winston throws it to the opposite side of the WR. You can't put it out in front or else you're going to get your WR decleted. You can't put it on him in stride because you risk the Mike picking it off. You can't lead the WR up-field because there's a safety over the top. You have to put it on the back-side of the WR. Winston put the ball where it needed to be placed. In fact, based on the defense, I bet Bobo Wilson was supposed to settle in the zone rather than continue his route into the Mike. He's a first year starter and a true sophomore.

Here's proof that the throw wasn't late and shows the window before the pass:

Bobo Wilson has not cleared the Will LB when Winston is letting this ball goes. As you can see here, his arm is clearly coming forward and the ball is coming out. You have the safety over the top, the Mike inside, and the Will underneath. It provides Winston with a small window to throw into and he's going to have to throw the ball with perfect timing. If he's late, the Mike picks it off. And this is what I mean by Bobo Wilson being supposed to settle rather than continue his route into the Mike. That's the hole in the zone and it's not a big window. He continued to run his route into the Mike rather than settling. Winston put the ball where it needed to be put in that window and probably threw it where he expected Bobo to settle. He's throwing to a spot because he's throwing the ball with anticipation. The WR is not yet open. He's throwing to the window rather than the WR.

That pass is the OPPOSITE of late.

 

[jrry32]

Someone mentioned about Roethlisberger.

Pittsburgh offered Big Ben to the Rams straight up for a 3rd rounder the year we drafted Bradford. That was the year he had the Sexual Assault problems and the Rooney family outright tried to dump him. The asking price was a 3rd straight up.

Won't even go there, but for those who don't remember... the Rams obviously said no.

And what a mistake that was.

 

[dieterbrock]

I'm totally onboard with the crew who is opposed to Winston over character concerns. But what I cant understand is trying to downplay Winston for his talent, ability or Football Iq. He's off the charts great in all of those

 

[PressureD41]

My gut feeling says no...Too risky for our franchise currently... Its early but i think I rather keep Sam and draft UCLA Hundley

 

[MTRamsFan]

A couple thoughts. First, Shotty's offense is more west coast than spread. I think if you take a spread style QB and try to fit him in this offense and you don't utilize his full talents. Case in point the Jet's Geno Smith. Kaepernick is having the same problem in San Francisco. Winston will never be a pocket passer which is what Shotty's offense requires. Second, Fisher had V. Young at Tennessee and it never worked. Winston is a great college talent, but his off-field issues will continue even after he leaves FSU. I don't see him maturing into a quality NFL QB. He will be the next Jamarcus Russell, Terrelle Pryor, etc. etc.

 

[jrry32]

A couple thoughts. First, Shotty's offense is more west coast than spread. I think if you take a spread style QB and try to fit him in this offense and you don't utilize his full talents. Case in point the Jet's Geno Smith. Kaepernick is having the same problem in San Francisco. Winston will never be a pocket passer which is what Shotty's offense requires. Second, Fisher had V. Young at Tennessee and it never worked. Winston is a great college talent, but his off-field issues will continue even after he leaves FSU. I don't see him maturing into a quality NFL QB. He will be the next Jamarcus Russell, Terrelle Pryor, etc. etc.

Winston is a pocket passer. And he currently plays in a pro style offense. Florida State uses what is essentially an Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. It's the same system that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady operate in.

Vince Young and Terrelle Pryor are nothing like Winston. They were run first QBs. Winston is a pocket passer that has mobility.

I guess you can claim he's JaMarcus Russell but Russell's biggest issue was his lack of work ethic. As far as I know, nobody has questioned Winston's work ethic.

Schotty also doesn't run a West Coast Offense. He runs his own variant built off the Air Coryell and uses the Air Coryell system of verbiage(with his own twist on it to simplify it in today's game).

 

[cgsuddeath]

Winston is a pocket passer. And he currently plays in a pro style offense. Florida State uses what is essentially an Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. It's the same system that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady operate in.

Vince Young and Terrelle Pryor are nothing like Winston. They were run first QBs. Winston is a pocket passer that has mobility.

I guess you can claim he's JaMarcus Russell but Russell's biggest issue was his lack of work ethic. As far as I know, nobody has questioned Winston's work ethic.

Schotty also doesn't run a West Coast Offense. He runs his own variant built off the Air Coryell and uses the Air Coryell system of verbiage(with his own twist on it to simplify it in today's game).

Sorry but as you can see,success in college doesn't always translate to success in the pros and that's a head ache we don't need.

 

[jrry32]

Sorry but as you can see,success in college doesn't always translate to success in the pros and that's a head ache we don't need.

That's true. But rarely does a lack of success in college result in success in the pros.

 

[V3]

And what a mistake that was.

It wasn't for a 3rd. It was for the first pick overall. It was either take Bradford or Ben.

 

[jrry32]

It wasn't for a 3rd. It was for the first pick overall. It was either take Bradford or Ben.

Less of a mistake. But we still know the correct answer in hindsight.(obviously, hindsight is different than in the moment)

 

[V3]

Less of a mistake. But we still know the correct answer in hindsight.(obviously, hindsight is different than in the moment)

Agreed. But for a 3rd round pick, I don't think anyone would have passed that up. That's like no risk.

 

[moklerman]

That pass is the OPPOSITE of late.

If it wasn't late, it was thrown poorly. On both of those passes if he's a split second earlier and leads his receiver they are both big plays rather than contortionist catches with no YAC.

On the second one the receiver had both LB's beat and a ball out in front goes for a long gainer but he threw it behind the receiver forcing him to come to a complete stop and even have to reach in the other direction.

I also still don't understand why you're so impressed with completing passes against a zone defense. That's when QB's rack up completions and yards most of the time.

 

[jrry32]

If it wasn't late, it was thrown poorly. On both of those passes if he's a split second earlier and leads his receiver they are both big plays rather than contortionist catches with no YAC.

On the second one the receiver had both LB's beat and a ball out in front goes for a long gainer but he threw it behind the receiver forcing him to come to a complete stop and even have to reach in the other direction.

I also still don't understand why you're so impressed with completing passes against a zone defense. That's when QB's rack up completions and yards most of the time.

No, he doesn't. Schmidt is in front of the WR in the zone. He'll pick that pass off if he leads him. That pass was released exactly when it should have been.

Why am I impressed that he's able to fit the ball between levels and multiple defenders into a tight window and released the ball before the WR cleared the defender? I think the question gives you the answer.

You also conveniently ignored my point that Wilson very possibly did not recognize the option in his route and was at fault for the ball seeming to be behind him.

 

[moklerman]

No, he doesn't. Schmidt is in front of the WR in the zone. He'll pick that pass off if he leads him. That pass was released exactly when it should have been.

Why am I impressed that he's able to fit the ball between levels and multiple defenders into a tight window and released the ball before the WR cleared the defender? I think the question gives you the answer.

You also conveniently ignored my point that Wilson very possibly did not recognize the option in his route and was at fault for the ball seeming to be behind him.

I disagree. If he puts the ball out in front and leads the receiver down the field, he's already got the LB's beat over the top. The pass is thrown short and gives the LB what looks like time to recover but if he'd hit the receiver in stride and led him down the field, that would have been a huge gainer.

And throwing to a spot to beat a zone isn't even noteworthy to me, especially when the passes I saw looked mis-timed and inaccurate.

I have no idea if the receiver was supposed to continue his route or squat in the zone but since neither of us do, it seems moot to discuss it. As far as the read of the defense, the receiver had them beat and headed to open ground with his decision so it wouldn't lead me to believe he was wrong. Winston threw it where the defenders could close, the receiver ran it to where he had beat the defense.

 

[jrry32]

I disagree. If he puts the ball out in front and leads the receiver down the field, he's already got the LB's beat over the top. The pass is thrown short and gives the LB what looks like time to recover but if he'd hit the receiver in stride and led him down the field, that would have been a huge gainer.

There is a safety over the top. If he leads the WR, he's getting decapitated or the ball is getting picked. There's not a good argument here. I don't know what you're looking at. The LB is clearly in front of the WR. He can under-cut any pass thrown out in front. If Winston does loft it over the LB, there is a safety sitting over the top.

What you're recommending is the worst possible thing he could have done. That's forcing a ball into coverage rather than throwing into the window.

I'm not going to continue to argue this. It's going nowhere. There is no common ground to be found here.

 

[moklerman]

There is a safety over the top. If he leads the WR, he's getting decapitated or the ball is getting picked. There's not a good argument here. I don't know what you're looking at. The LB is clearly in front of the WR. He can under-cut any pass thrown out in front. If Winston does loft it over the LB, there is a safety sitting over the top.

What you're recommending is the worst possible thing he could have done. That's forcing a ball into coverage rather than throwing into the window.

I'm not going to continue to argue this. It's going nowhere. There is no common ground to be found here.

Well, take your ball and go home then.

I'm commenting on the videos you posted and in the 2nd one, there is no safety over the top. Not that I can see from the play or replay.

The most impressive thing about those plays are the catches made by the receivers so I don't know why you'd choose them to illustrate how great you think Winston is. Just poor examples. All those plays show are a QB with a clean pocket, plenty of time and beating zone coverage with his receivers bailing him out by making great catches.

I say: Whoop-dee-do.

 

[jrry32]

Well, take your ball and go home then.

I'm commenting on the videos you posted and in the 2nd one, there is no safety over the top. Not that I can see from the play or replay.

The most impressive thing about those plays are the catches made by the receivers so I don't know why you'd choose them to illustrate how great you think Winston is. Just poor examples. All those plays show are a QB with a clean pocket, plenty of time and beating zone coverage with his receivers bailing him out by making great catches.

I say: Whoop-dee-do.

Did you look at the pictures I posted for you? There is an arrow pointing to the safety that is sitting over the top. You have to understand my frustration here when we're arguing over this. If you didn't see the pictures, they're in the first post of this page(page 7).

 

[moklerman]

Did you look at the pictures I posted for you? There is an arrow pointing to the safety that is sitting over the top. You have to understand my frustration here when we're arguing over this. If you didn't see the pictures, they're in the first post of this page(page 7).

Of course I looked at them. I didn't say there wasn't a safety on the field though. But, since I appreciate you going to the trouble to use graphics to help illustrate what you say, I'll do the same:

The receiver starts his route directly on the left hash and Winston is standing on the right hash when he throws it. The safety is on the left hash when the receiver actually catches the ball. He looks as if he's planted his feet, anticipating an easy interception but the receiver makes the great catch. But if Winston throws the ball where I've indicated, the receiver easily beats the LB up the field and has separation doing it. If the pass is on a line, maybe...maybe the LB can tip it but a little air and that shouldn't be an issue. Neither DB should be able to get position either. The receiver would be splitting those two guys and this is a pass that would be straight down the field for Winston since it be going from the right hash to the right hash. Basically one of the easier deep throws a QB can make(as opposed to throwing from the right hash the left sideline for example. We don't get to see where #10 is lined up at the snap but it looks like the right hash. He's moving straight forward when he first comes into frame but he's so deep that if the FS receiver Wilson runs the route and is allowed to cut and continue to the inside as I've indicated, he's easily got the angle to make the catch which would have been a TD.

 

[Amitar]

Bradford will be ready to go and the Rams need an OL more then anything. Without a decent OL it doesn't matter who is playing the QB position. I hope they draft OL first, second and third.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Bradford will be ready to go and the Rams need an OL more then anything. Without a decent OL it doesn't matter who is playing the QB position. I hope they draft OL first, second and third.

Well, I am in partial agreement, although without a quality, healthy QB, we will struggle once again. I'm all for using our 2'nd & 3'rd round draft choices on the O-line, but still see finding our QB of the future as essential. I'm all for bringing Bradford back at a much reduced salary, but there is little to guarantee us his seeing an entire season thru. I'd hate to make it to the play-offs only to require the services of Davis to take us to the promised land. Davis is also an RFA in 2015, ... some team may offer a price we won't want to match, where compensation makes better sense. I'd be very happy going into 2015 with Bradford starting, our highly drafted QB learning from the bench for awhile, and another veteran QB as back-up. We could hit the jackpot if Bradford does have a successful 2015, as his trade value would soar, and we might garner a 1'st round draft pick for him in 2016, right when our rookie QB is ready to fly solo. jmo.