Wade Phillips plans to implement a hybrid 3/4

[DaveFan'51]

I've seen the Rams, over their History, go from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and back to a 4-3. I didn't care for it (the 3-4) before, 1983-1990, and the idea of the change scares the Hell out of me!! So I'm just going to take a "Wait-and-See attitude about it!

 

[LACHAMP46]

I see no reason for me to speculate too much on Quinn here...fact is #1 Quinn has been unhealthy in 2015 #2 was mostly unhealthy & not effective in 2016, #3- Quinn remains unhealthy & #4-trending downward fast & finally #5-in truth is not a good fit no matter how hard our members try to pound the Quinn square into a round hole.

When you add in the Quinn price tag that having this 43 RDE here in a 5-2-4 defense in 2017 for the near 10 million appears very UNsound. There's not much here that would warrant any 43 teams to desire Quinn at that price in a trade. Quinn would offer up the Rams some serious 2017 cap savings & future cap savings if released. We will see how this plays out in the near future here on Quinn.

I see Mark Barron as a great fit in Phillips ISLB on the weak side myself like Deone Bucannon plays in the AZ 34 defense.

Exactly....I was thinking about Barron....The LB's Denver used, and the ones Houston used. I also thought of the guy at Washington....from USC....While Denvers LB's (esp Marshall) are on the smallish size, they seemed to be LB's by nature, not converted LB's. I'd just like a real LB in there, not someone that's always jumping around blocks. Ogletree already does enough of this...

Quinn is a playmaker. He has had injury problems last couple of years. You have to see what he has next season.

If Quinn were healthy, there's no way we'd be even discussing him. He hasn't been healthy for 2, maybe 3 seasons. And it's a back issue. All of us old guys know what a bad back feels like...and how healthy you are after it starts acting up. I doubt he ever regains total heath again. Remember, this league usually uses young men up in 3.3 years....If you get 6 years, you're doubling the average length of stay in the NFL.

 

[Riverumbbq]

anyone thinking of picking the phone up to cleveland and seeing if they want a give up one of their firsts for Quinn and maybe a 3rd or maybe a 4th ... ?

Unless Quinn has a chronic health issue that can't be dealt with, honestly, ... i'd see more likelihood of trading Ogletree, Hayes or Barron than Quinn to Cleveland. jmo.

 

[BonifayRam]

Unless Quinn has a chronic health issue that can't be dealt with, honestly, ... i'd see more likelihood of trading Ogletree, Hayes or Barron than Quinn to Cleveland. jmo.

Afternoon Riverumbbq, appears that you & I are looking @ Quinn with both of us seeing it differently at this time. Its really had to know Big Question keeping our feelings out of the equation ....The Question ....is it more likely that Quinn is trending away from a Chronic Health issue or trending towards it? Two of his last seasons have been injury filled. I am sure Demoff/Snead/McVay & Phillips are pondering that question.

Quinn having recent back surgery this past 2 yrs & having injury after injury after the surgery would send Red Alerts to any NFL team who will pay a player who's average annual salary is $14,253,724 million a season. 2015 season managed only 5 sacks in 8 games & was IR'd the last half of that season. 2016 Quinn follows up & held out of OTA's, most all TC & never even warmed up in pre season to play in only 4 games injured then MIA for 5 games returns plays 3 games then injured again & MIA the rest of the season, again totaled only 4 sacks & a few tackles. Demoff paid a near 28 million for those last two seasons. That's two back to back seasons of major disappointment.

Quinn has not been able to assist pass rusher disrupter DL'er Aaron Donald the last two seasons & things have gone bad in the DL depending on Quinn to deliver. Can they really afford to bet the bank & depend on Quinn again for a third straight season? Do you also think the element that Quinn has always played in a 43 defense Not a 34 D come into this? No actual evidence or proof that Quinn can be an effective player in a Phillips 34 defense just speculation. Phillips has his hands full on the Quinn issue.

I would summarize that both new comers to the Rams (HC & DC) would be in the area of thinking that Quinn is well into the realm of trending into a solid Chronic Health column than in the non issue column. Then add in that ultra high cost of keeping Quinn based on what Quinn was 3 & 4 seasons ago. Quinn is the Rams highest paid Ram since the 2014 season.

I thought that good winning NFL teams paid big to resolve questions on their teams not produce more of them.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Quinn made $28 million alm:the last two years:eek:? Oh my.uke:....

 

[Riverumbbq]

Afternoon Riverumbbq, appears that you & I are looking @ Quinn with both of us seeing it differently at this time. Its really had to know Big Question keeping our feelings out of the equation ....The Question ....is it more likely that Quinn is trending away from a Chronic Health issue or trending towards it? Two of his last seasons have been injury filled. I am sure Demoff/Snead/McVay & Phillips are pondering that question.

Quinn having recent back surgery this past 2 yrs & having injury after injury after the surgery would send Red Alerts to any NFL team who will pay a player who's average annual salary is $14,253,724 million a season. 2015 season managed only 5 sacks in 8 games & was IR'd the last half of that season. 2016 Quinn follows up & held out of OTA's, most all TC & never even warmed up in pre season to play in only 4 games injured then MIA for 5 games returns plays 3 games then injured again & MIA the rest of the season, again totaled only 4 sacks & a few tackles. Demoff paid a near 28 million for those last two seasons. That's two back to back seasons of major disappointment.

Quinn has not been able to assist pass rusher disrupter DL'er Aaron Donald the last two seasons & things have gone bad in the DL depending on Quinn to deliver. Can they really afford to bet the bank & depend on Quinn again for a third straight season? Do you also think the element that Quinn has always played in a 43 defense Not a 34 D come into this? No actual evidence or proof that Quinn can be an effective player in a Phillips 34 defense just speculation. Phillips has his hands full on the Quinn issue.

I would summarize that both new comers to the Rams (HC & DC) would be in the area of thinking that Quinn is well into the realm of trending into a solid Chronic Health column than in the non issue column. Then add in that ultra high cost of keeping Quinn based on what Quinn was 3 & 4 seasons ago. Quinn is the Rams highest paid Ram since the 2014 season.

I thought that good winning NFL teams paid big to resolve questions on their teams not produce more of them.

I look at it this way, Quinn's ability to play 3/4 or 4/3 is a non factor for me, hands in the dirt or upright, he is the very definition of an excellent pass rusher, Phillips' system shouldn't hinder Quinn from doing his job successfully imo. So, this brings us to the health issue, and i'm with you if a combination of sports doctors and the Rams own doctors declare his issues as chronic, that his services cannot be guaranteed by this continuing ailment. If he is declared fit and falters, then the doctors should go as well as Quinn, these guys get paid to make important decisions about the health of our players, and I have to trust their judgement. A lot of money and an entire season could be on the line with a poor decision, however it goes. If Quinn is near 100%, he's likely top 5 at his position, if he's not, at least his DEAD CAP is low enough in 2017 to give us the option of cutting/trading him. The problem is that this decision may not come about until the initial free agency period is completed, more than likely deeper into camp, and while we may get the CAP savings should he move on, we may not have a solid successor to his position unless we move quickly. At the moment, I have to give him the benefit of doubt, but if this question persists for the front office, they need to do the right thing for the organization. Keep in mind that if Rams doctors see a problem, pretty good chance anyone we try to trade him to will also discover what's up, so i'm not anticipating getting great value out of him if we have to move in a different direction. jmo.

 

[Mackeyser]

A lot of Quinn's health problems have to do with the hold that was called on Chiefs' Left Tackle Eric Fisher near the end of the game.

When a rusher starts, they are square. A rusher dips his INSIDE shoulder, which puts the Tackles outside arm ACROSS the rusher's body.

Now, it SHOULD be a move that requires the Tackle to reset his hands or draw the hold. However, the Back Judges routinely REFUSE to call this hold.

It's not a ticky-tack foul. It causes the defender to hyperextend his back as the Tackle is establishing his base and pushing down. Essentially, once the defender dips, if he can't rip under that arm, because the foul isn't being called, he's in danger of being folded in half or taken to the ground (as Harrison was).

It's a very dangerous no-call. I'm all out of evidence bags at this point for submitting how much the NFL doesn't give a flying F about player safety.

It's NOT about reducing penalties. It's about CALLING the actual penalties and then insisting teams abide by the rules. Insisting refs call fewer penalties is idiotic. If coaches know that's going to happen, you have coaches like Belichick who will continue to break the rules KNOWING that the Refs are being pressured to err on the side of NOT throwing the flags except in the most egregious cases because fans don't want to see flags.

So the net effect isn't a cleaner game with better actual football, it's a dirtier, more "gamed" game where the coaching is spent positionally on how to get away with fouls. I mean just look at the danged NE secondary. There are Japanese subways that are less grabby.

So...how does this affect Quinn? Well, Philips likely move of Quinn to the OLB position will mean that he can be moved around... to over center like Houston did... to a standup Wide 9 situation, etc so that he's facing more TEs and RBs and fewer Tackles and even he is, he's not coming out of his stance so he's less likely to use that dip move.

Honestly, this switch has the potential to help Quinn maybe more than any other player. Now, that presumes that his back isn't just shot which I don't think it is. I will say that I don't think he's solid as a straight 4-3 DE anymore because he's just not going to hold up at the POA like a 4-3 DE needs to, nor handle the load that LTs would put on his back.

But as a rush end in a 3-4? Yeah... I think he can do that. If he can't, Wade Philips will know that and we'll find out soon enough. But honestly, Philips' scheme is a better fit for most of our defenders than Williams' scheme at this point, including AD.

 

[jrry32]

So the net effect isn't a cleaner game with better actual football, it's a dirtier, more "gamed" game where the coaching is spent positionally on how to get away with fouls. I mean just look at the danged NE secondary. There are Japanese subways that are less grabby.

Just watch Patrick Chung. It's like he and the receiver are one...because the receiver ends up giving Chung a piggyback ride.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Trading Quinn would be a dumb idea at the moment. I still think he can be one of the best pass rushers in the league.

I'm not sure I would either. DE's that can rush the passer are a premium in this league.

But; there is no trading partner unless the player is good... so...

 

[UKram]

@badnews inaprops ? Really ?? And I thought we were Bros ?

 

[BonifayRam]

Only concern with Quinn I have is his back injury he had. One of Quinn's best abilities (imo) was his ability to bend coming around the corner. But I think he can still wreck people because like jrry said, he's a freakish athlete.

Trading Quinn would be a dumb idea at the moment. I still think he can be one of the best pass rushers in the league.

No team in its right mind would trade the 2013/2014 season player Rob Quinn. I certainly would not advocate doing that.

But then the newer most recent version of Rob Quinn 2015/2016 is a totally opposite of the 2013/2014 version, is it not? Why would I wrong in that statement? Is there any circumstantial evidence out there on Quinn that would infer that the above fact as it exists.

I must be currently misinformed here because I am convinced that Rob Quinn has NOT been close to being one of the best pass rushers in the NFL since the end of the 2014 season. My position @ the moment is it would be a Unwise direction to assume that this 2017 Rob Quinn version is close to the same as he was 2013/2014 seasons. Why am I wrong on this position?

Since most here have such positive confidence in Rob Quinn's 2017 freakish athlete ability to be the key here in this NEW critical Ram position in DC Phillips Defense ...Help me understand, why & how I can ignore (for the most part), the BAD of the last two season's worth performance & dependability of Quinn & why I should just move on as if it were a bad dream & delete what I know occurred? Because what I observed the last two seasons of Rob Quinn performance is direct evidence in my small mind.

In addition can you tell me why having the 2017 version Quinn soak up & tie up 10 million of our 2017 cap is a good use of funds? On the same thought here why would an NFL teams be lining up to trade with the Rams for Quinn & the remaining over $36 million cap hit for the next 3 seasons? The amount of Cap being placed in Quinn's bank account was based on the 2013/2014 Quinn, would NFL teams really desire to continue to pay that's amount to the new 2015/2016 version? The answer to that must be easy & simple right?

I know way too many Questions...Its obvious that I am seriously slower mentally & lack brain matter :shocking: than most of our great members have. Can anyone here help me work through my issues:help: & what many must be thinking as overblown concerns on Rob Quinn situation, by providing me some simple details of your wisdom on what I obviously am missing in getting some answers to my many questions.

 

[badnews]

@badnews inaprops ? Really ?? And I thought we were Bros ?

We are! Accidental button pressung!

 

[UKram]

I'm not really fussed regarding Cost and the cash side of things

I just think that Quinn probably has the most value in terms of trades for both teams .. mighty Quinn is worth a 1st round pick (and an additional pick ) for any teams "money"

This years Quinn not so much BUT Quinn has proven he can produce in the NFL as opposed to any rookie pass rusher that gets taken in the first round. .. now the Browns (or any team we trade him to ) is taking a risk that Quinn returns to form but in my mind that has just as much chance of happening as a rookie panning out

It's also the change of scheme that would prompt me to make the trade

It's a win win for both teams we get back anforst rounder and a team get a proven youngish pass rusher

 

[UKram]

We are! Accidental button pressung!

I was gonna say that's he last time
I like anything on Facebook you post

 

[A55VA6]

I'm not sure I would either. DE's that can rush the passer are a premium in this league.

But; there is no trading partner unless the player is good... so...

Exactly right.

Some people say Quinn isn't elite anymore because of his declined performance - maybe due to his injuries. I won't argue that. But we all know Quinn has so much talent and is still only 26 years old. I'm willing to take the risk, keep Quinn on board and hope he returns to his old form. If he doesn't.. well, we'll have to see if we can get anything for him, or we'll have to cut him eventually.

 

[UKram]

I totally reaslise cash counts ...maybe I don't care because it's not coming outta my pocket

Imwouldnt be upset either if we keep him ... I just think he is a tradable piece

 

[LACHAMP46]

why & how I can ignore (for the most part), the BAD of the last two season's worth performance & dependability of Quinn & why I should just move on as if it were a bad dream & delete what I know occurred?

Because
How the hell are you gonna believe your lying eyes.:rolllaugh:

 

[DaveFan'51]

Quinn having recent back surgery this past 2 yrs & having injury after injury after the surgery would send Red Alerts to any NFL team who will pay a player who's average annual salary is $14,253,724 million a season. 2015 season managed only 5 sacks in 8 games & was IR'd the last half of that season. 2016 Quinn follows up & held out of OTA's, most all TC & never even warmed up in pre season to play in only 4 games injured then MIA for 5 games returns plays 3 games then injured again & MIA the rest of the season, again totaled only 4 sacks & a few tackles. Demoff paid a near 28 million for those last two seasons. That's two back to back seasons of major disappointment.

This^ is the type of performance that got Chris Long cut! So I wouldn't be surprised IF the Rams considered making a Trade. BUT I would be very disappointed if it happened! Quinn has earned a shot at keeping his roster spot!

Come to think of it ... If Wade Phillips does put in a 3-4, Bring back Chris Long ( He was only signed to a one year Deal w/ the Cheatriots!) he is playing OLB in the Pats 3-4 scheme, right!?!